300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

On the Acu-rite meters, the "in" reading is the sensor on the meter itself, which measures ambient temps in the garage, and the "out" reading is the remote sensor inside the tent.

On the twin fluorescent display below, the display shows temps inside the tents.

The sensors inside the tents, one from the Ac-curite, and one from the fluoro display, are zip tied together in the same location.

Hope that helps, but let me know if it doesn't .

 

[ganjaballz]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

The side sitting in the corner is going to read higher temps but it looks like it's not enough to matter. Without a high performance thermal barrier between the two chambers the temperature difference is going to end up a non factor.

 

[Green007]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

for the explanation SS. I get it now.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Like farmer john, been outstanding in my field. This should be interesting:reading420magazine

b :

and hey, you get to watch me try cloning. What could possibly be more entertaining than that? lol

wow,, very neat, clean, effecient, and refessional.. , beautiful,, (like always)

outside the tens though,,, wow,, what a maze of wires..ll,, that hook, under that certificate, next to the ballasts,,, that's alot of wires...

Yep, lots of wires. The tents are in there with little room to spare, and to run additional cords once they're both up is a hassle, so I installed them with two power strips in each tent, and whatever else I could think of I might need. I like to have remote switching for some things, which also takes more cords.

Once it's all set up though, it makes it a lot easier to add or remove gear.


thanks Herb Zen

It's starting!

see this is why i love when you test things out! just amazing brother! LETS SHOW SOME LOVE WITH +REP'S FOR HIS HARD WORK
[

thank you bro!

The side sitting in the corner is going to read higher temps but it looks like it's not enough to matter. Without a high performance thermal barrier between the two chambers the temperature difference is going to end up a non factor.

In optimizing the tents, I worked things around my S&P fans, which I did not want to replace because they're so smooth and quiet. When all was said and done, the temps turned out very close.

ganjaballz!

for the explanation SS. I get it now.

No problem bro, I appreciate you asking. I should have explained the readouts, and I'm sure others were wondering also.

 

[OldMedMan]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Hi Sun

Debated with myself on if I should say this are not.

It would be hard for you to do, but if you explained things on a 9th grade level, you would hit us all between the ears. I really don't know if some of it could be explained at that level. A thought!

 

[420warriors]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Hey Sun, are you still going to try a few cloning methods for comparison?

 

[pacard]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Sun,

Really enjoy the specificity with which you conduct your grows. I'm a total newbie just putting together my materials list......and reading like a madman! I'm contemplating a 180w LED from mike because I live in a very dry/hot part of the country. Now I'm wondering if I'll see any better operating temperatures inside the tent.

I guess I'm a little surprised there isn't a more noticable difference in heat emitted from the lights. I would have expected the LED tent to expierience lower temps. Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Hi Sun

Debated with myself on if I should say this are not.

Well, I'm glad the side that wanted you to speak up won the debate

It would be hard for you to do, but if you explained things on a 9th grade level, you would hit us all between the ears. I really don't know if some of it could be explained at that level. A thought!

An excellent thought, and I would be more than glad to try to put things in simpler terms.

Glad you specified 9th grade level, cause I got tossed out of school in the 10th grade for not following their rules, lol.

Again, my friend, I value the way you cut to the chase and your input .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

There is no trying, only doing! What will be entertaining is the smile on your face when you see the first roots.

b

I am looking forward to it!

Who knows, it might make me put seeds down for a while.

I want to be a well-rounded grower, and not from having the munchies, lol.

Hey Sun, are you still going to try a few cloning methods for comparison?

Yep, depending on how many cuts I can take, I will try at least two and very possibly three methods.

1. DIY bubbler

2. Rapid Rooter plugs under a dome

3. Gel cubes.

I have two moms that I'm growing out, and once they're mature enough, I should be able to take enough cuttings to try at least two of the above methods and maybe three.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Sun,

Really enjoy the specificity with which you conduct your grows. I'm a total newbie just putting together my materials list......and reading like a madman! I'm contemplating a 180w LED from mike because I live in a very dry/hot part of the country. Now I'm wondering if I'll see any better operating temperatures inside the tent.

I guess I'm a little surprised there isn't a more noticable difference in heat emitted from the lights. I would have expected the LED tent to expierience lower temps. Am I misunderstanding something?

Nice to meet you pacard, and !


The reason the temps are close is because of the air-cooled hood on the HID side. Without doing that, the HID tent would be running about 6-8 degrees higher than the LED side, and too hot to allow me to grow in summer with 400w of HID.

Setting up an air-cooled HID hood isn't that big a deal, but it's more than a lot of growers want to hassle with as regards smaller personal grows.

I'm going to post how many watts both lights are using tonight when I get home, but burning watts generates heat that must be managed.

Theoretically, a 400w HID light and a 400w LED light create pretty much the same amount of heat, but they don't radiate that heat in the same way.

HID lights radiate more heat down towards your plants than LED lights, so even though both lights are basically generating the same amount of heat, your plants would be able to tolerate the type of heat generated by LED's better than that of the HID.

The environment the plants are in would be the same temp-wise, but the LED light would not stress and burn your plants the same way, so you might be able to effectively run a 400w LED light, whereas a 400w HID would need to be positioned way higher unless it was air-cooled, as I've had to do with my HID.

So yes, the numbers are close, but you have to take into account what I had to do to get them there (air-cooled HID hood), and also the different ways the two technologies radiate the heat they produce.

Hope that helps shed some light on things

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

What TL and I were talking about has to do with measuring and comparing the strength of the light these two lights produce at different heights above the plants, and also how much drop-off in strength there is when the light spreads out.

To figure that out, I'm going to use a 30 x 30" plastic tray and a light meter. I'm going to draw a grid and mark my tray at certain intervals and then take measurements at those intervals at different light heights.

If I make the grid 3 x 3" squares, then the number of measurements becomes too much work, but if I make the squares too large, then we lose quality because the measurements become too coarse. So, we were trying to figure out a workable number of points on the grid that would still provide good data.

Now, I can take these light intensity measurements outside the tents, which would provide more general data, or I can take them inside the tents, which would provide data more specific to what my plants are going to be seeing. At this point, I'm more interested in what my plants are going to be dealing with, so I have chosen to take the measurements inside the tents.

As regards the prior post on how LED and HID can burn the same watts but throw their heat differently, I will also be able to take temperature readings with an infrared thermometer at those same points where I'm measuring the strength of the light, so that should be useful also.

I like to throw big words around as much as the next guy, but I'd rather have everyone following understand what I'm doing, so please don't hesitate to ask me to try to clarify or simplify stuff.

There are some peeps following this grow who know a lot more than I do about this stuff, and I will not hesitate to ask them to do the same if I'm not understanding.

 

[Lemon Paradise]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS... you are so thorough,, I am getting tired just thinking of the work you will be doing really a tremendous effort, and one that will benefit everyone greatly.. thankyou for your dedication..

 

[The Lurker]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

^^^^^^^^^
What He Said. +1

I've got some heat test data to post and some pics of the seedlings that I'm growing as moms for this grow.

thanks for following!

Great stuff! About what I expected with the heat info, we'll see if the kill-a-watt draws are in line (no pun intended ), too.

That 400 puts out a lot of heat, also. If it weren't for your decent exhaust system you'd be pushing ~90F in those cabs, I'll bet. (EDIT: looks like you just mentioned that above while I was typing) Hope the summer doesn't get that much hotter! Poor little babies!

-------------------------------

I thought HN was kinda kiddin' at first, but I'm not so sure. Hey folks, don't sweat the other stuff. I just put it in the 'Measure Twice, Cut Once' category. If it doesn't interest or apply to what you do, skip it. Just looks more complicated than it actually is. (EDIT: SS, you just did a better job of explaining it than I ever could - thanks. You've got 'The Touch').

While we're at it - don't let great be the enemy of good, folks, in anything you do. Most of the time doing something is better than trying to get it perfect. Not possible anyway. Thinking like that (and fear) has kept more folks from trying something - whether it's a new business venture, love, or you name it - than anything else in history.

Better to think 'Ready, Fire, Aim' then not at all. You can always improve it later if it's really necessary or you have the inclination.
--------
Heck, my first hydro grow back in '00 was nothin' special. A cheap bubbler, GH nutes, Grorox/rockwool, some seeds, and a HPS. Didn't bother with any expensive EC/TDS/ppm meters or funky nutrients, just topped it off, changed the res every week, and the result was just fine by me. Well, ok, I did check the pH with some test strips, but that was it. Dirt never looked so good by comparison.

One of my favorite journals here was done by OMM last year. No stats, technical hooey, or mumbo jumbo. Just him, some plants (with names!), and good folks stoppin' by for a chat. People sharing some life experiences, learnin' from each other, and hangin' out - which is what this place is all about, anyway.

Me, I'm here for the picture porn! Oooh, baby!

Cheers,

-TL

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I was thinking I would just focus on cloning for a bit to gain experience, but no reason why I couldn't do both.

I've got lotsa seeds slowly losing viability in the fridge, so probably should do just that.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Thought I would add some more detail to the temp tests.

At baseline, everything is turned off. No lights and no fans. The temps inside the tents are essentially equal to each other and a few degrees lower than the readings inside my garage, which are the "in" numbers.

The reason the air in the tents is cooler than outside in my garage is because the Accurite remote temp sensors inside the tents (the "out" sensors) are located lower down closer to the floor than the sensors in the Accurite units, which are located up higher on top of the tents.

Hot air rises, so the air in the tents is cooler in the center of the tent than up at the top, where the Accurites are sitting.

This test is with just the exhaust fans on. Doing this test isolates and tests the exhaust system in each tent to see how efficient they are compared to each other.

The temps are lower now than at baseline because the tents are drawing cooler air from the bottom intake vents.

The exhaust system in the LED tent, without all the extra ducting in the HID tent, is a bit more efficient, which is reflected in slightly lower temps on this test.

Now running both the exhaust and circulation fans with lights still off.

Temps increase in both tents slightly with the circulation fans added to the mix. Not sure why, but I suspect that the circulation fans are blending the air and the sensors inside the tents are seeing more average temps than with just the exhaust fan on.

Now running the lights and just the exhaust fans.

And now running the lights with both exhaust and circulation fans.

Temps are a bit higher with the circulation fans on, and again, I suspect it's because the air inside the tents is being blended much better and the reading is more averaged out than just running the exhaust fans alone.

Hope this helps clarify my thinking and why I ran all the different tests.

 

[GrownManHollr]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Setting Sun,

Thanks a million for all your hard work on this grow. +Rep for Sure! (It actually let me do it!).

You are the MAN!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Thank you GMH!

and thanks for the rep and everyone else who rep'd me.

It makes the work lighter and more fun when I get positive feedback, so I do appreciate it .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

POWER USAGE

The GLH Spectra 300

The Lumatek 400w digital ballast with 400w MH bulb.

A magnetic 400w MH ballast with 400w MH bulb.

These are the temp sensors inside the tents, secured at mid-point on the frame.

thank you for following

 

[Lemon Paradise]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

wow,, so detailed,, I am so glad I caught this one early,,, it is a b*tch trying to get caught up to a SS journal,,, just so much information everyday,, like being in school (in a good way)

interesting that a 300 watt led with no hood is the same (or a tad bit warmenr) as a 400 w HID with hood..

 

[dogsnova]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS I hate to do this but I can't seem to clearly read the wattage numbers on those meter pics.. Could you possibly type in the numbers for me so I can properly follow along... Again sorry and thanks for your time and effort..

Also are those numbers with the units on for at least 1/2 hour?