300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[molotov]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

i seen it has cal but no mag right in those ferts right?


i am sure some soiless mediums have microorganisms that can break down the organics like SS#4. perlite and hydroton are a bit different then most other soiless mediums. most organics ferts are loaded with micro life that will break down all the organic matter for the plants, even in coco. i for one do not like the all perlite, its cool for a fast fix or flushing and stuff, but doesnt sute my needs and is too much work and time for my liking.

I agree. I am using perlite on bottom and perlite and ffof 40/60 mix about almost half way up the bucket. I definately like it better then just perlite. Seems like the plants in this mix are greener and happier. Maybe just the way things turned out for me but I like the fact that I don't have to water as often also. For some reason I just couldn't get the girls to look as healthy as Doc and SS. The ones in the perlite ffof mix are looking more like what I am use to seeing in my soil grows. This doesn't mean that the perlite hempy's aren't as good or better. This happening to me doesn't mean it's going to happen to everyone. I seem to just over nute or under nute them. The new growth looks good for a couple of days and then starts to yellow and totally burn or bleach out and die. In the soil and perlite mix I have no issues. I guess it's a soil/perlite hybrid. In a hempy bucket of course. Maybe I over fertilized the perlite ones or something. I didn't have this issue until about a week ago. Ph is the same around 6 and temps and all other factors are about the same also. I'd love to post pics but not comfortable with doing so yet.

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

The bottles don't say anything about mag. There was a small quantity of epsom salt in the water I initially used to pretreat the coco.

epsom salt should help mixing in ur water.

I agree. I am using perlite on bottom and perlite and ffof 40/60 mix about almost half way up the bucket. I definately like it better then just perlite. Seems like the plants in this mix are greener and happier. Maybe just the way things turned out for me but I like the fact that I don't have to water as often also. For some reason I just couldn't get the girls to look as healthy as Doc and SS. The ones in the perlite ffof mix are looking more like what I am use to seeing in my soil grows. This doesn't mean that the perlite hempy's aren't as good or better. This happening to me doesn't mean it's going to happen to everyone. I seem to just over nute or under nute them. The new growth looks good for a couple of days and then starts to yellow and totally burn or bleach out and die. In the soil and perlite mix I have no issues. I guess it's a soil/perlite hybrid. In a hempy bucket of course. Maybe I over fertilized the perlite ones or something. I didn't have this issue until about a week ago. Ph is the same around 6 and temps and all other factors are about the same also. I'd love to post pics but not comfortable with doing so yet.

SS and Doc are using TRF like OC+ witch you cant burn from what i have seen. sounds like ur over feeding, and FFOF already has food in it for about 3 weeks i believe? the perlite is cutting it down for sure though. I am in a Hempy bucket with SS#4 also and it is working good for me, i do have allot of perlite and very very high temps a while ago, so i was feeding every 2nd day and that was not fun at all.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I'm disappointed and discouraged by the failure of prop 19, and embarrassed to be living in the midst of so much societal ignorance and apathy.

So, guess I'll use that negative energy to motivate me to continue to grow marijuana and encourage others to do the same .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Gorgeous plants SS. Love the fan porn. I need to scrap the cheap axial fan (weed wacker) I bought to test ventilation. So loud that I can hear it outside through the garage wall. I'm working with an unfinished garage and the temp daily swings are about 20 degrees.

Very interesting how close the two sets of plants are. Guess the final proof will be in the smoking.

Hope the trip is for fun and relaxation.

thank you Two Tokes

I'm all too familiar with 20 degree swings in garages, and mine is finished. With lower-powered lights, it's can be a serious problem.

I run my lights at night to help keep things cool in summer and warm in winter, but anything less than 500w or so of lighting won't raise temps enough on cold winter nights.

That won't be a problem on this grow, as I can easily maintain 75-80 on cold nights by venting the exhaust from one or both tents into the garage.

Conversely, if I vent both tents into the attic and open an intake on the garage wall, lots of cool outside air gets sucked in and cools things down quickly.

I've been thinking of framing up and enclosing my garage grow corner for better pest and odor control, and temp management should be easier in a space with a volume that's just a fraction of the garage.

I'm also surprised at how close the two groups of plants are at this point.

It's not early in the grow, and they're still neck and neck .

thanks again brother Two Tokes

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

All the ladies are doing great!

As the magnesium deficiency abated in the HID tent, it became apparent that this was not the only issue going on.

The plants had some generalized yellowing, so there was also a nitrogen deficiency which was readily fixed by adding 2 Tbsp of OC+. Both groups got the fix, even though the LED plants weren't showing the same degree of N deficiency.

A couple of waterings later, all is copacetic, and all the plants are budding up beautifully.

 

[Two Tokes]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I'm disappointed and discouraged by the failure of prop 19, and embarrassed to be living in the midst of so much societal ignorance and apathy.

So, guess I'll use that negative energy to motivate me to continue to grow marijuana and encourage others to do the same .

SS, you don't need to feel so bad. Though there is quite a bit of societal ignorance out there, this legislation failed because of arrogance. I know a lot of people who would have voted for it if it hadn't been so poorly written. Personally, I held my nose and marked yes.

There were just to many clauses to support a certain agenda mixed with weird compromises to try and get swing voters. Ross Perot said it best," There is nothing in the middle of the road but white lines and dead armadillos."

In two years we should have a much better piece of legislation that will pass. Preferably three pieces of legislation. One for hemp, one for personal rights and one for commercialization.

Meanwhile, back to the pot plants. Nothing cheers a person up quite like watching them bask in the light. Well, maybe smoking a little.

 

[Two Tokes]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

thank you Two Tokes

I've been thinking of framing up and enclosing my garage grow corner for better pest and odor control, and temp management should be easier in a space with a volume that's just a fraction of the garage.

I have been having the same kind of thoughts. Between my two grow spaces there is a 2' x 3.5' x 4'. If I run all intake venting through there, I only need temp control about 30 cf rather than a whole garage at 5000cf.


The key could be using equipment meant for enviromental control of wine storage.

 

[molotov]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

epsom salt should help mixing in ur water.


SS and Doc are using TRF like OC+ witch you cant burn from what i have seen. sounds like ur over feeding, and FFOF already has food in it for about 3 weeks i believe? the perlite is cutting it down for sure though. I am in a Hempy bucket with SS#4 also and it is working good for me, i do have allot of perlite and very very high temps a while ago, so i was feeding every 2nd day and that was not fun at all.

I am also using oc+. I removed both girls I had problems with today and you could smell the salt build up in the bottom of the buckets. I'm thinking I added to much to them from the get go. I replanted them into some fresh perlite with a much lighter dose of oc+. I"ll update in a couple of days.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, If what I grew was really "Old" Power Plant, I know what you mean about the smell. It reminds me of pot before the skunks made it this far south LOL Real old timey marijuanaey smell... fresh and clean... a calgon take me away olfactory moment ... or, maybe I'm just old and daft?

And glad to hear the pots held water

Nope, you're not old and daft. That's a very apt description of how my PPP smells. Fresh, clean, and also takes me back to some closet sativa grows in the early 80's, where I don't recall even using a carbon filter to control odor.

PPP is an African sativa strain, not Mexican, but so far, it's very low-odor. My carbon filters are long overdue for carbon replacement, but I can't smell a thing unless the tents are open *and* I'm moving the plants.

On my previous grow, my *two* Sunset Kush plants stunk the place up 100x more than these *eight* PPP ladies.

So far in this grow, this is the lowest odor strain I've encountered, which is another positive in my book for PPP.

A sativa strain that stops stretching at 2' when LST'ed, doesn't stink, and basically has the branching and structure of an indica. If the sativa-shaped leaves didn't give it away, you wouldn't know otherwise.

Lots of great smoke reports on this strain on the Net, so if mine smoke good too, I'll be growing it again.

I thought I would have to use Bushmaster to keep sativas short, but apparently not with PPP.

The GLH LED lights, with their strong blue output, produce stocky and short plants that are ideal for indoor growing, but I didn't expect the USHIO HPS bulb to do as well as it has in that regard. It's spectrum seems very well balanced also, producing a few more inches of stretch than the GLH LED light, but still under 24" if the stretch is over, which it pretty much should be by now.

Maybe LST'ing right before the flip also has a positive effect in keeping stretch down? I've done it that way on about 5 grows now, with three different strains, and haven't had one plant go over 2'. My late LST'ed plants have seemed to put more energy into stretching and branching laterally than vertically.

thanks Horse

always enjoy your visits

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

All the ladies are doing great!

As the magnesium deficiency abated in the HID tent, it became apparent that this was not the only issue going on.

The plants had some generalized yellowing, so there was also a nitrogen deficiency which was readily fixed by adding 2 Tbsp of OC+. Both groups got the fix, even though the LED plants weren't showing the same degree of N deficiency.

A couple of waterings later, all is copacetic, and all the plants are budding up beautifully.

Sorry I can't remember, but what rate did you mix the OC+ to start? In one spot or mixed through? Just wondering if I need to add more...

They look awesome Sun - I'm especially impressed with how far LEDs have come in the brief time I've been around here. Pretty Work brother.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

it does help but i here you on taking them out, once things get big and heavy its best to just leave them alone. ive made that mistake a few times, nothing like spending time tying them up and trying to get in the back of the tent.lol

I really like taking them out for pics, but yeah, it's not worth it once they get big and heavy. Last thing I need is pics of snapped-off colas, lol.

ya you will never know until u try it i was always against it before, and always believe others on leaving the leafs alone because their the solar panels and all that other stuff, to a certain degree its to, but IMO when you have allot of leaves it will hurt yield not trimming them when the plants is very bushy. when you have a ton of leaves shading your buds they will be small. ive seen it tons of times. i like to cut my fan leaves in 1/2 1st to see if i can allow some light down but if that does help ill chop it in a heart beat. remember everyone this is just my opinion so no bashing.lol. but every time the Canopy is dense my buds suffer big time, but if i trim a few plants those ones always yield more. sometimes plants get bushy specially when LST'ing. but most of the time its the growers error from cramming too many big plants in a small area thinking their going to yield more, sometimes less is more. ive seen it 1st hand. my yield is going to suffer because of the the BS of them not flowering and vegging longer, my canopy is so dense now all my lower buds are going to suffer, good thing i lolliopoed and ill have at least some phat tops. theirs a time to do these things and a time not to. if my plants were small and i had light hitting all the way down i would not lollipop. but if the light isnt intense and my branch look weak and thin ill cut it off without thinking because i know small weak branches dont support heavy buds. i like putting all the energy into the top buds so i have nice fat grade A+ frosty buds that are very dense. i hat popcorn buds and their a pain in the ass to trim. but this is just my take on things. everyone has their own ways.

I haven't grown the same strain enough times under the same conditions to assess the difference without doing a side-by-side. It's near the top of my personal "mythbuster" list . That would be a fun and useful comparison grow.

I like to tuck fan leaves, if possible, rather than snip them if they're blocking light from the buds, but again, that's just what I do and it's not based on any personally-acquired evidence that one way is better than another.

I like to keep the smaller branches and popcorn buds, because I can pinch a few to sample before harvest, and after harvest, those little popcorn buds dry fast and give me something to smoke while the larger buds are still drying.

Too much conflicting info from trusted sources on this one. Gotta do the side-by-side .

That side-by-side, with one group lollypopped and one untrimmed, is again at the top of my list, along with CMH vs HPS, and vertical bare bulb vs horizontal with hood.

I need a really fast strain, lol.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Wow! More great pics. I love the measurements on the pics. My brain looks at the pictures and sees like 3 feet between the plants and the lights. The numbers help put things into a better perspective. Thanks, it really helps with my decision process of when to flip my plants over to 12/12.

Cool!

thanks for the positive feedback!

It helps keep my energy level up to know that the stuff I post is actually useful .

The plants are in hempies patterned after yours and the plants are loving the organic Dynamite so far. The organic Dynamite runoff definitely has a down on the farm smell. I don't let the run off sit around. Pour it into a bucket and dump it on my outdoor plants which love it too.

Makes sense, thanks. I don't know why I interpreted the nasty smell as something my plants wouldn't like, especially after having used fish ferts, lol.

It was kind of a rancid smell, like rotten meat, which also makes sense since the Dynamite Mater Magic has meat meal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it wouldn't work. The coarse perlite I used also didn't do much to encapsulate and contain the odor, so it probably wouldn't stink as much in other media.

more good feedback, thanks bro

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Sorry I can't remember, but what rate did you mix the OC+ to start? In one spot or mixed through? Just wondering if I need to add more...

Initially, I mixed 3 Tbsp of Dynamite purple into the coco/perlite when I transplanted into the hempy buckets.

The recommended dose, IIRC, was something like 2 1/3 Tbsp, but I upped it to 3 because I was using soilless. Apparently, that's still not enough Dynamite purple and/or all the flushing I did didn't allow the DM to build up enough in the medium. Not sure, but the plants definitely needed nitrogen.

I decided to go with OC+ for the nitrogen fix, because I know it has plenty of N, and because the micros are excellent, which should help prevent further deficiency shenanigans down the line.

So, totaling things up, they've gotten 3 Tbsp of DM purple incorporated into the mix, and 2 Tbsp of OC+ top-dressed.

I was going to use my suggestion of poking some deep holes into the coco with a stick and pouring the OC+ prills in there, but I forgot and remembered after I had already top-dressed the first pot.

Considered picking every single prill back out for about 2 seconds, and just top-dressed the rest . I was able to loosen up and stir the media at least 3" down, so it's not just all sitting near the surface.

They look awesome Sun - I'm especially impressed with how far LEDs have come in the brief time I've been around here. Pretty Work brother.

I'm impressed with the current state-of-the-art in LED's, and this GLH light is a wonderful example of it.

thanks OBX!

Wait till you see 'em on the next update .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, you don't need to feel so bad. Though there is quite a bit of societal ignorance out there, this legislation failed because of arrogance. I know a lot of people who would have voted for it if it hadn't been so poorly written. Personally, I held my nose and marked yes.

There were just to many clauses to support a certain agenda mixed with weird compromises to try and get swing voters. Ross Perot said it best," There is nothing in the middle of the road but white lines and dead armadillos."

In two years we should have a much better piece of legislation that will pass. Preferably three pieces of legislation. One for hemp, one for personal rights and one for commercialization.

thank you TT, that makes me feel better.

I'm really more disgusted than anything else. I was leaving work yesterday and overheard two coworkers talking about how they were going to vote NO on prop 19. As a rule, I avoid discussing politics and religion with people, but I did stop and give them a rather heated piece of my mind. I'll probably apologize, maybe.

Meanwhile, back to the pot plants. Nothing cheers a person up quite like watching them bask in the light. Well, maybe smoking a little.

amen bro, and that's exactly what I'm fixin' to do rat now

 

[Marley15]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I am having pretty bad N and Mg deficiencies with my DM Red, I think I might add some OC+ to help out the N..I've been using some cal/mag for the last few days and foliar fed epsoms last night for the Mg.

Good info SS, as usual.

Btw what's up with this Cali heat? It's really f'in with my setup!



Marley

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

i will say my OC+ plants are much greener then the DM, but the DM plants are allot bigger and way more dense buds. maybe a mix of both will be a great one?
heat also seemed to effect my OC+ in a bad way but not my DM plants so much, all my plants were toped dressed in mostly perlite and some SunShine#4 soiless mix. maybe if i were using soil and the OC+ were down into the medium it would have been ok?

SS were ur last nugs with the OC+ very dense? my DM plants are very very dense.

i never got a N def until late flowering with the DM and have a few yellowing leafs with the DM purple but every thing els is good. i dont worry about yellowing late into flowering, but in ur case thats not good at all, way too early. its the DM red that is all out of whack for me, but thats because i never feed them with Cal/mag for the longest time and still barley feed them with it. to be honest i did care.lol. buds are still huge and frosty, i was just to lazy to mix up a different batch of food just for those plants to be honest.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Wow Mr. Sun!!! Very inspiring. They look so beautiful. Ill have some pretty flowers soon im throwin mine into flower tonight...Lights off 6pm

Your roots are looking great!

I agree. I am using perlite on bottom and perlite and ffof 40/60 mix about almost half way up the bucket. I definately like it better then just perlite. Seems like the plants in this mix are greener and happier. Maybe just the way things turned out for me but I like the fact that I don't have to water as often also. For some reason I just couldn't get the girls to look as healthy as Doc and SS. The ones in the perlite ffof mix are looking more like what I am use to seeing in my soil grows. This doesn't mean that the perlite hempy's aren't as good or better. This happening to me doesn't mean it's going to happen to everyone. I seem to just over nute or under nute them. The new growth looks good for a couple of days and then starts to yellow and totally burn or bleach out and die. In the soil and perlite mix I have no issues. I guess it's a soil/perlite hybrid. In a hempy bucket of course. Maybe I over fertilized the perlite ones or something. I didn't have this issue until about a week ago. Ph is the same around 6 and temps and all other factors are about the same also. I'd love to post pics but not comfortable with doing so yet.

your hybrid hempy is intriguing, to say the least, molotov. The soil buffer has its advantages. The thing with CRF's and soilless media, IMO, is that the farther away you get from the components and matrix of soil, which is what they are designed to work in best, the less well they're going to work, which I think is a reasonable and logical assumption.

I'm waiting for someone to try CRF's in hydroton, but it's prolly not gonna be me, you know what I'm sayin' .

Coarse perlite is very different from soil, and I don't think CRF's work as well in it. Mixing the CRF prills evenly throughout the perlite before filling the bucket, or sprinkling them in and layering them above the hole helps the combo work more consistently and reliably, but they're meant to be used in a soil or soil-like matrix. Probably work great in any soilless mix that at least approximates a soil matrix, such as coco and Sunshine #4, Pro-Mix BX, etc, but the farther away you get from that type of matrix, wicking, and water retention, the more unreliable things are gonna be, IMO.

please keep us informed as to how your hybrid hempy grow is doing, and
don't push yourself to post pics or do anything you're not comfortable doing. I'm enjoying your company and participation just fine as is .

I have been having the same kind of thoughts. Between my two grow spaces there is a 2' x 3.5' x 4'. If I run all intake venting through there, I only need temp control about 30 cf rather than a whole garage at 5000cf.


The key could be using equipment meant for enviromental control of wine storage.

yep, it's a lot more efficient to have a room within a room, and I'd still have multiple venting options.

thanks for the tip on the wine storage gear. I'll check it out.

I am also using oc+. I removed both girls I had problems with today and you could smell the salt build up in the bottom of the buckets. I'm thinking I added to much to them from the get go. I replanted them into some fresh perlite with a much lighter dose of oc+. I"ll update in a couple of days.

how much did you use initially?

I am having pretty bad N and Mg deficiencies with my DM Red, I think I might add some OC+ to help out the N..I've been using some cal/mag for the last few days and foliar fed epsoms last night for the Mg.

Good info SS, as usual.

Btw what's up with this Cali heat? It's really f'in with my setup!



Marley

High Marley

If it's an N deficiency, the OC+ should fix it.

I agree on the weather. I feel like the dude in the circus who tries to keep all the plates spinning on sticks, lol.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

26 DAYS FLOWERING



YouTube - HID-26 days.AVI




YouTube - LED-26 days.AVI

 

[Two Tokes]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

What fun. Dancing buds!