Well been a while but but my babies are not camera shy

Have you written up a journal on this technique yet? You should, if not. I droughted my flowering a bit lately but have no guidepost to tether myself. SPILL...GIRL! Give us the good news...
I'm in the process Charlie!! I've got so much going on and this is the one thing out of all of them I don't want to miss something on!! It is so important to our relationship with cannabis in a medicinal sense. I should start a thread though, that is a good start.....we can always add to it as we go. I have not gotten my angles down yet just the background science on it all, which is the easy thing for me with my educational background. Bringing this to light via our 420 is something still relatively new to me and I am learning as I go. Integrating this into my previous knowledge on biology and tying it into the tons of information @Maritimer has given me is just taking me some time to get together with life happening through the middle of it all.
 
No, I think many of the leaf temperature studies you find online used "high-priced" thermo-detectors and "expensive" infrared video equipment to measure cannabis leaf surface temps under various lighting and growing-environment temperature conditions (for their LED vs HID/HPS comparison).

You argue cheap measuring equipment: My answer; I think, a lot of the time, the "higher-expense" of the instrument or equipment, in general, only guarantees increased precision, rather than complete and infallible accuracy. I think measuring and laboratory equipment are only as good as the operator and the calibration standards used to "zero" the devices - "cheap" or "expensive".

I would also argue that the majority of growers, by-and-large, do not use this chart in their grows. Therefore it is irrelevant. Temp and humidity can vary significantly, day-to-day - in most amateur small-scale grows, medium-scale amateur grows and outdoor grows. Unless you have a "professionally" sealed grow room with multi-big-dollar environmental equipment, most growers cannot obtain this level of environmental control constantly (so is the chart important? - really? - to most growers here at the 420 website?).

I think indoor environmental engineers mostly use this chart for sizing, paring, and integrating A/C, air handling and dehumidification/humidification systems in professional grows. I do not know if the VPD is a very good management tool for all 420 crops - one size does not fit all.

First, it assumes an "idealized" rate of photosynthesis for max transpiration and nute flow. That is never the case in any type of grow. Plant-to-plant, leaf-leaf-to-leaf, all the time. In fact, if you examine the original research for your chart you will find there were many assumptions made regarding the "actual" rate of photosynthesis on a section of leaf and how those same assumptions changed regarding shaded or sunshade leaves. Their experiemental estimates were made based on "certain" plentiful assumptions. No plant is an idealized hybridized and constant "photosynthesis machine" where all things and plants are "equal".

Next, the chart assumes all 420 plant varieties, 420 species and 420 sub-species, react in the same way to one idealized set of environmental conditions. That is not the case either. Some like it hot and dry, some like it moist and cool (and any derivation in-between). Bad logic to assume all 420 like one "idealized" environmental regime for any particular stage of growth.

Last, I think in "real-life circumstances" you find a lot of variation in professional and amateur goals regarding their "grow". Techniques and methods vary widely. Plant stress is one of the most important cannabis growing techniques with many various methods of application.

For example, it is clear that certain stresses on 420 plants, at the correct time in their growth phase, aid, rather detract from vigor, potency and yield. Why do we do all these physical LST and HST techniques if not? Environmental stresses are similarly important as plant "stressors". The whole "droughting" crowd understands this (@Krissi1982 , et.al. - "team" not "crowd", sorry @Krissi1982 ). Temperature and RH are just other forms of potential stressors 420 growers use to "condition" their crop. Stress the 420 and the 420 will seek to alleviate the stress, maybe in an interesting and valuable way (or as I say: "Spank them and they will response.").

In mean I like "vanilla ice cream" but there are other flavors more interesting - keeping the same "speculative" environmental condition crop-to-crop is like eating vanilla ice cream every day. I'm a "Rocky Road" fan. Some 420 varieties response well to a "rocky road" of growth with increased vigor, higher potency and better yield.

Therefore, environmental stress or "idealized norm" is neither good or bad, right or wrong, it is just an opinion rather than "imperial rasta ganja dogma". The above chart may be best applied in large-scale professional grows rather than as a "everyone do this" new-age "miracle-gro".

In addition, the above chart is "pretty cool" (in it's rainbow colors and hard-to-read enumerations), however, I do not know if it is more useful as an engineer's guide to proper environmental grow management or as a general reference for idealized transpiration and nutrient delivery under idealized environmental conditions based on questionable assumptions regarding maximum obtainable rates of photosynthesis. In "Engineer-speak".

The "ideal" case is not usually the "real" case - in any "case".

I think you should research online "cannabis leaf surface temperature studies" and check out the information there - don't mind-lock on a certain pretty chart that gets passed around the forum. Finally, do research and mark the assumptions used to create the "rainbow-420-:love:-chart" - it will make your head swim.

There are plenty of times "engineering logic" produced with poorly-made research assumptions has let us down and wilted our path-row of Earthly delights.
I been using it for sure ty very much I'm grateful
 
Ahoy @Dank777
What a cool screen name. Dank triple seven's. Bitchin Avionics go with the Boeing versions. One of the first commercial planes to really compete with Airbus fly by wire.

Sounds like you are hosting a proper discussion relating to gardening cannabis. Wanted to say hello to everyone.
 
I'm in the process Charlie!! I've got so much going on and this is the one thing out of all of them I don't want to miss something on!! It is so important to our relationship with cannabis in a medicinal sense. I should start a thread though, that is a good start.....we can always add to it as we go. I have not gotten my angles down yet just the background science on it all, which is the easy thing for me with my educational background. Bringing this to light via our 420 is something still relatively new to me and I am learning as I go. Integrating this into my previous knowledge on biology and tying it into the tons of information @Maritimer has given me is just taking me some time to get together with life happening through the middle of it all.
Weellll...as I have previously expounded upon, AT LENGTH...you need the "420-Weed-o'-Matic Servial Grow Nanny" - by Hasbro (many flailing and useful attachments, remember?).

AND, you also need those twin "eunuch-like" humanoid AI's to manage your family and life better.

COME ON! Hubby makes all that money WORKING...besides the house, the bills, the kids and you...what does he spend it on? Tell him to "fork-out" for the Hasbro Breadbox-Sized "420 Weed-o'-Matic Servial Grow Nanny" at least. You won't be sorry the next time you have to "sanitize" a toy drill chuck or chase-down the "wild-eyed 2 y.o. diaper-less carpet capo".

JUST sayin...
 
Weellll...as I have previously expounded upon, AT LENGTH...you need the "420-Weed-o'-Matic Servial Grow Nanny" - by Hasbro (many flailing and useful attachments, remember?).

AND, you also need those twin "eunuch-like" humanoid AI's to manage your family and life better.

COME ON! Hubby makes all that money WORKING...besides the house, the bills, the kids and you...what does he spend it on? Tell him to "fork-out" for the Hasbro Breadbox-Sized "420 Weed-o'-Matic Servial Grow Nanny" at least. You won't be sorry the next time you have to "sanitize" a toy drill chuck or chase-down the "wild-eyed 2 y.o. diaper-less carpet capo".

JUST sayin...
The thread is started... you knew I was going to do it...everyone is welcome to join


Thread 'Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis' Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis
 
Alrighty- this is a packed response. I'll break down the reply so I don't miss anything.
No, I think many of the leaf temperature studies you find online used "high-priced" thermo-detectors and "expensive" infrared video equipment to measure cannabis leaf surface temps under various lighting and growing-environment temperature conditions (for their LED vs HID/HPS comparison).

You argue cheap measuring equipment: My answer; I think, a lot of the time, the "higher-expense" of the instrument or equipment, in general, only guarantees increased precision, rather than complete and infallible accuracy. I think measuring and laboratory equipment are only as good as the operator and the calibration standards used to "zero" the devices - "cheap" or "expensive".
Technology has gotten to the point where accurate equipment isn't always expensive. A laser thermometer pointed at a leaf gives the temperature. You're overthinking a simple measurement. That's the equivalent of saying a mercury thermometer isn't accurate cause it doesn't display decimal points. I stand by my statement: a simple cheap laser thermometer is sufficient to measure leaf temperature for VPD.
I would also argue that the majority of growers, by-and-large, do not use this chart in their grows.
Argue away- but I've seen many of the more experienced growers use it, and refer to VPD. And I would counter argue that you have insufficient data to extrapolate how many growers refer to VPD charts.
Therefore it is irrelevant. Temp and humidity can vary significantly, day-to-day - in most amateur small-scale grows, medium-scale amateur grows and outdoor grows.
Outdoor grows is outside this conversation. Pun intended :laughtwo:
Unless you have a "professionally" sealed grow room with multi-big-dollar environmental equipment, most growers cannot obtain this level of environmental control constantly (so is the chart important? - really? - to most growers here at the 420 website?).
I stuck a large dehumidifier and portable AC inside my grow tent. VPD achieved.
Also- it's good to aim for perfection, even when seldom met.
I think indoor environmental engineers mostly use this chart for sizing, paring, and integrating A/C, air handling and dehumidification/humidification systems in professional grows. I do not know if the VPD is a very good management tool for all 420 crops - one size does not fit all.
nobody is telling you that you must use it. Just like nobody says you must measure PPM/EC and PH in hydro. It is however advised, as its part of the "aim for perfection". Just like use PH on a soil grow, you don't have to, but it helps (and I'm not a soil grower, so that is probably not the best point for me :hmmmm::laughtwo:
First, it assumes an "idealized" rate of photosynthesis for max transpiration and nute flow. That is never the case in any type of grow. Plant-to-plant, leaf-leaf-to-leaf, all the time. In fact, if you examine the original research for your chart you will find there were many assumptions made regarding the "actual" rate of photosynthesis on a section of leaf and how those same assumptions changed regarding shaded or sunshade leaves.
can you link that original research that was used for the chart?
Their experiemental estimates were made based on "certain" plentiful assumptions. No plant is an idealized hybridized and constant "photosynthesis machine" where all things and plants are "equal".

Next, the chart assumes all 420 plant varieties, 420 species and 420 sub-species, react in the same way to one idealized set of environmental conditions. That is not the case either. Some like it hot and dry, some like it moist and cool (and any derivation in-between). Bad logic to assume all 420 like one "idealized" environmental regime for any particular stage of growth.
I agree at a base level there are differences in cultivars, and how their ideal environment might deviate Slightly. But having a proper baseline to adjust from is key, and comes with experience. The chart is a guide, and cannabis is still cannabis, as a species it's main climate will in fact be within a certain baseline, as provided in the chart.
Last, I think in "real-life circumstances" you find a lot of variation in professional and amateur goals regarding their "grow".
Yup, we all tend to try different things and get different results. The key is finding what works for you.
Techniques and methods vary widely. Plant stress is one of the most important cannabis growing techniques with many various methods of application.

For example, it is clear that certain stresses on 420 plants, at the correct time in their growth phase, aid, rather detract from vigor, potency and yield. Why do we do all these physical LST and HST techniques if not? Environmental stresses are similarly important as plant "stressors". The whole "droughting" crowd understands this (@Krissi1982 , et.al. - "team" not "crowd", sorry
Not too sure if you're aware or read my last journal, but I did a hydroponic drought. I documented it very well (or at least to the best I could).
@Krissi1982 ). Temperature and RH are just other forms of potential stressors 420 growers use to "condition" their crop. Stress the 420 and the 420 will seek to alleviate the stress, maybe in an interesting and valuable way (or as I say: "Spank them and they will response.").

In mean I like "vanilla ice cream" but there are other flavors more interesting - keeping the same "speculative" environmental condition crop-to-crop is like eating vanilla ice cream every day. I'm a "Rocky Road" fan. Some 420 varieties response well to a "rocky road" of growth with increased vigor, higher potency and better yield.

Therefore, environmental stress or "idealized norm" is neither good or bad, right or wrong, it is just an opinion rather than "imperial rasta ganja dogma". The above chart may be best applied in large-scale professional grows rather than as a "everyone do this" new-age "miracle-gro".
Nobody said "do this". I'm not the author, I don't pretend either to be as smart on the topic as the author clearly was/is.
In addition, the above chart is "pretty cool" (in it's rainbow colors and hard-to-read enumerations), however, I do not know if it is more useful as an engineer's guide to proper environmental grow management or as a general reference for idealized transpiration and nutrient delivery under idealized environmental conditions based on questionable assumptions regarding maximum obtainable rates of photosynthesis. In "Engineer-speak".

The "ideal" case is not usually the "real" case - in any "case".

I think you should research online "cannabis leaf surface temperature studies" and check out the information there - don't mind-lock on a certain pretty chart that gets passed around the forum.
Interesting choise of words, given our conversations since I showed you the chart.
Finally, do research and mark the assumptions used to create the "rainbow-420-:love:-chart" - it will make your head swim.
Dude with my medical conditions, my head swims plenty on it's own :rofl: .
There are plenty of times "engineering logic" produced with poorly-made research assumptions has let us down and wilted our path-row of Earthly delights.


Charlie, you're clearly a smart person, but if you really want to explore the topic, and talk about it with people who actually can explain (I'm definitely not that guy) it better than me. Post a thread in the Frequently asked questions subforum, title it about the VPD chart. You can say that I reposted the chart, you feel it's a wrong chart, and then tackle the science behind it with those who can. Tag me, I'm up for learning. But I'll continue to use this as a baseline to aim for (within a certain temp zone) when growing.

I don't think us continuing this conversation in this thread is beneficial to the OP, and ask it be continued elsewhere (the FAQ in its own thread?), zero disrespect intended Charlie, you may be on to something, don't know, but if so, then it should have its own thread?
:Namaste:
 
However it does lower yields but increase resin production the two that I have tried this new technique on and it does something very interesting to the roots I'm waiting for the second one to finish up so I can see if it's the same results I'm going to try it on one more of my babies and then I'll expound on it maybe someone can tell me why it is @Rexer
 
But on the lighter note I got four more bag beans gg4 is In it's genetics so I'm looking forward to that and also the sour OG Kush from bag Bean if they all are auto then I know I'm on to something with this method every bean I pop has turned to a Auto even my photos has automatically with no change in the light schedule flowered and I never had a boy out of all my gardens
 
I managed to get my hands on some more soil so that's two more pots in my garden one of 3 germ last night to this morning hopefully at least one more time by the morning tomorrow and it'll be my two pots and the end to all that I want in this garden I'm so happy!! I did it with no money hardly and I can hardly wait for them to start standing up my lemon og is already up and running doing gorilla glue trust me they look way more better in person blessed

IMG_20211229_211432_4.jpg
 
@Bill284 one already in the ground I'm so grateful and I harvest one already it's so beautiful I couldn't wait for the 30 days care to happen so I smoke good soon as it dry and I smoked it with someone and they said that it was very high quality they actually love the way it looked I'm very happy not with yield but the quality satisfied
That's great my friend.
As long as your happy. :thumb:

Stay safe
Bill
 
Back
Top Bottom