Welcome All My Friends To The Show That Never Ends - Canna M & Nismo12 Team Up!

nismo12 said:
For the veg room under the MH we shoot for 77-82. A good 5 degree swing and they are fine with it. In flower the max I have seen with 3 leds and the HPS is 84. Usually is 80-81. We have the fans on controllers and have dialed it in to get into this sweet zone. For the T5 though I wanted to get where Jorge Cervantes said the magic number for growing was... 76. It is around 80 in there and they will do just fine.
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Ruefully, I was told that regular seeds stay female if kept under 75°, heat stress thing. I'm not buying it but I though I'd throw it out here. You two have a dialed grow room. Temps are fine. Loose bud, heat stress, not seeing any here at all. Pushing to 1 gpw would require strict controls with CO2 and sealed tent, mini split. 75° days, 65°, night. I know guys doing it well. I won't even show pix. I almost quit growing when I looked at 6, plants in garage sealed GG grow tent with extended roof. #50's, looking at 6, 700+ g dry plants made me think I knew nothing. But I can see you two getting there fast.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
 
arteekay said:
My understanding is, mid to high 70s for MH/HPS, low to mid 80s for LEDs. There was a video around here somewhere where some dude told us why. Can't remember. I've had autos under LEDs in mid to high 80s for most of their life with little issue.




See, this surprises me. We've seen a noticeable increase in yields since going 20/4 from 18/6 for their entire life. Mind you we've made a number of other changes as well, so it's hard to separate the effects.

Once we get more flowering space I'll have to try it, don't yet have the room to screw with what is working.
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High RTK....I know how difficult this is but can you elaborate on maybe the top 3 things you've done that you suspect improved yields? I bet training and trimming is part of it.

:passitleft:
 
Canna Montana said:
:passitleft: thanks Stage. We are surely winding down. We smoked a bit out of the new pipe, have eaten a cannabrownie, and now have a vape in hand. Oh! Speaking of vaping, where did you get the adapter for the vape to bong setup you have? That's bada$$, and we want to try it too. Lol!! Thanks for stopping by my friend. :passitleft:
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High Canna. I will send you a link via pm for the bubbler adapter.
 
millertm said:
Ruefully, I was told that regular seeds stay female if kept under 75°, heat stress thing. I'm not buying it but I though I'd throw it out here. You two have a dialed grow room. Temps are fine. Loose bud, heat stress, not seeing any here at all. Pushing to 1 gpw would require strict controls with CO2 and sealed tent, mini split. 75° days, 65°, night. I know guys doing it well. I won't even show pix. I almost quit growing when I looked at 6, plants in garage sealed GG grow tent with extended roof. #50's, looking at 6, 700+ g dry plants made me think I knew nothing. But I can see you two getting there fast.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
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I'm giving the whole sexing seeds idea a shot. We attempted to germinate 5 seeds for the experiment but only the one made it.

It would be awesome to get close to 1 gram per watt. A while ago I thought about getting a controller to shut the fans off and pump in co2 for a while then have it not run while fans are on. Still considering it but will give this setup a while to prove itself then go that route in the future possibly.
 
If you want to hit the 1GPW "benchmark", the easiest way to do it, IMHO, is a SOG with LED's.
You can maximize yield in any space by cramming a bunch of single cola plants as close together as possible. The LED's will minimize the power draw. Somewhere in my SOG journal was a GPW calculation but I honestly don't remember what (or where!) it was.
 
nismo12 said:
I'm giving the whole sexing seeds idea a shot. We attempted to germinate 5 seeds for the experiment but only the one made it.

It would be awesome to get close to 1 gram per watt. A while ago I thought about getting a controller to shut the fans off and pump in co2 for a while then have it not run while fans are on. Still considering it but will give this setup a while to prove itself then go that route in the future possibly.
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My one advantage over your setup is my venting. Moving total tent air 3 to 4 times a min will keep your CO2 high, when your extraction fan only cycles off for 5 to 6 min every 15 min so Ave time would be off 10 to 15 min an hour. When weather heated up fans never shut off. Looking back at my cooltube days where tent fan ran 10 to 15 min and off 45 min. Much smaller flowers, talking to my grow guys they laughed and said that's why bare bulb setups work because there is always new CO2 flowing through tent. Photosynthesis happens at rapid rate (keeps up with packets of electrons) free moving CO2 keeps plant from saturation on leafs. Sealed rooms need 1300 +/- 200, rapid moving air gets ~700 ppm like results with room air. Cool.

LED's do not qualify for gpw calculation. Mars II 400 pulls like 180 watts but (claims) ~400 watts equivalent (not that discussion now) if true and has 400 PAR watts (yes I know 5w chips are driven at ~2w so, 100 chips at 5w would be called 500w LED but pulls 220w or so) because all LED's are in PAR spectrum (400-500nm 620-720mm). Well Sun Pulse published PAR watts for their bulbs. Most 1000 watt HPS have 420 PAR watts, MH about 385 PAR watts which leaves ~600 watts of heat.

Now MARS II 400 yield should be calculated by 1000 watts, not 400 and really, not actual wall pull. That will ball park your led grow. 2x MARS II 400, 2000w, bud master, ect. Take multiples of 400 watt by 1000 watts each.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
 
millertm said:
My one advantage over your setup is my venting. Moving total tent air 3 to 4 times a min will keep your CO2 high, when your extraction fan only cycles off for 5 to 6 min every 15 min so Ave time would be off 10 to 15 min an hour. When weather heated up fans never shut off. Looking back at my cooltube days where tent fan ran 10 to 15 min and off 45 min. Much smaller flowers, talking to my grow guys they laughed and said that's why bare bulb setups work because there is always new CO2 flowing through tent. Photosynthesis happens at rapid rate (keeps up with packets of electrons) free moving CO2 keeps plant from saturation on leafs. Sealed rooms need 1300 +/- 200, rapid moving air gets ~700 ppm like results with room air. Cool.

LED's do not qualify for gpw calculation. Mars II 400 pulls like 180 watts but (claims) ~400 watts equivalent (not that discussion now) if true and has 400 PAR watts (yes I know 5w chips are driven at ~2w so, 100 chips at 5w would be called 500w LED but pulls 220w or so) because all LED's are in PAR spectrum (400-500nm 620-720mm). Well Sun Pulse published PAR watts for their bulbs. Most 1000 watt HPS have 420 PAR watts, MH about 385 PAR watts which leaves ~600 watts of heat.

Now MARS II 400 yield should be calculated by 1000 watts, not 400 and really, not actual wall pull. That will ball park your led grow. 2x MARS II 400, 2000w, bud master, ect. Take multiples of 400 watt by 1000 watts each.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
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You sir should be named "the mad scientist of 420 magazine". You just rained a ton of knowledge on us. Much appreciated. :thanks:
 
millertm said:
My one advantage over your setup is my venting. Moving total tent air 3 to 4 times a min will keep your CO2 high, when your extraction fan only cycles off for 5 to 6 min every 15 min so Ave time would be off 10 to 15 min an hour. When weather heated up fans never shut off. Looking back at my cooltube days where tent fan ran 10 to 15 min and off 45 min. Much smaller flowers, talking to my grow guys they laughed and said that's why bare bulb setups work because there is always new CO2 flowing through tent. Photosynthesis happens at rapid rate (keeps up with packets of electrons) free moving CO2 keeps plant from saturation on leafs. Sealed rooms need 1300 +/- 200, rapid moving air gets ~700 ppm like results with room air. Cool.

LED's do not qualify for gpw calculation. Mars II 400 pulls like 180 watts but (claims) ~400 watts equivalent (not that discussion now) if true and has 400 PAR watts (yes I know 5w chips are driven at ~2w so, 100 chips at 5w would be called 500w LED but pulls 220w or so) because all LED's are in PAR spectrum (400-500nm 620-720mm). Well Sun Pulse published PAR watts for their bulbs. Most 1000 watt HPS have 420 PAR watts, MH about 385 PAR watts which leaves ~600 watts of heat.

Now MARS II 400 yield should be calculated by 1000 watts, not 400 and really, not actual wall pull. That will ball park your led grow. 2x MARS II 400, 2000w, bud master, ect. Take multiples of 400 watt by 1000 watts each.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
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Everything you said makes perfect sense EXCEPT:

LED's do not qualify for gpw calculation
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and

Now MARS II 400 yield should be calculated by 1000 watts, not 400 and really, not actual wall pull.
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I believe the reason to even look at GPW is to get an idea of yield/cost. If that's what you're looking at, IMHO, you need to look at your actual yield and the actual power draw from the wall which equates to your true cost, regardless of what the light manufacturer tells you. As far as PAR, lumens, spectrum, etc., those speak to the quality of the light which should be reflected in your yield#.

Why would you want to penalize LED's for being (possibly!) more cost efficient?

:Namaste:
 
Mr. Krip said:
Everything you said makes perfect sense EXCEPT:



and



I believe the reason to even look at GPW is to get an idea of yield/cost. If that's what you're looking at, IMHO, you need to look at your actual yield and the actual power draw from the wall which equates to your true cost, regardless of what the light manufacturer tells you. As far as PAR, lumens, spectrum, etc., those speak to the quality of the light which should be reflected in your yield#.

Why would you want to penalize LED's for being (possibly!) more cost efficient?

:Namaste:
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Watts from wall mean one thing with HID lighting and another from LED. 620-720 have twice weighting vs 400-500. Low energy (red) counts twice high energy (blue). LED lights keep clear of 500-620 because they can. Watts from wall are apples vs oranges. 400 watts of LED to 1000 watts HID is apple to apple. Yes, LED have very low gpw which is why commercial grows use DE and MH. DE will take 1000 watt HPS (400 PAR watts) to almost 600 watts by elongation of spectrum by running constant heat across length of bulb. SE cooler at end with narrow spectrum.

CMH has best PAR at almost 100%. 2 x 315 CMH beat 1000 watt HPS for yield. Because of this gpw is out window again.

1 gpw was brought about by SOGing 16 plants under HID with all 1 oz plants. Look it up and you'll be blown away. You will then understand the logic behind it and see why it fails on CMH, LED, non HID.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
 
millertm said:
Watts from wall mean one thing with HID lighting and another from LED. 620-720 have twice weighting vs 400-500. Low energy (red) counts twice high energy (blue). LED lights keep clear of 500-620 because they can. Watts from wall are apples vs oranges. 400 watts of LED to 1000 watts HID is apple to apple. Yes, LED have very low gpw which is why commercial grows use DE and MH. DE will take 1000 watt HPS (400 PAR watts) to almost 600 watts by elongation of spectrum by running constant heat across length of bulb. SE cooler at end with narrow spectrum.

CMH has best PAR at almost 100%. 2 x 315 CMH beat 1000 watt HPS for yield. Because of this gpw is out window again.

1 gpw was brought about by SOGing 16 plants under HID with all 1 oz plants. Look it up and you'll be blown away. You will then understand the logic behind it and see why it fails on CMH, LED, non HID.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420
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OK...First, +REPS for some GREAT info! :goodjob:

I will happily defer to your expertise on lighting if you agree to defer to my expertise on math! :rofl:

It seems to me that, when you look at GPW, you have a different definition than I.

I maintain the value of that measurement is in understanding yield/cost. You seem to equate GPW to yield/PAR without considering cost of the PAR.

Is that correct? If so, what would be that value to you of that measurement?

Why would PAR even be a concern if your yields were sufficient (assuming no sacrifice in quality, of course!)?

And, if that was the case, wouldn't you just throw as much PAR at it as you could afford on your electric bill?

Wait! I said "electric bill"....

If cost of electric is going to be your limitation, than perhaps yield/cost is the better way to look at GPW? :cheesygrinsmiley:

:Namaste:
 
July 7

Tonight we have just a brief update of what's going on here in the garden. Tomorrow will be a better one since we will have a new camera delivered and we will have to test it out. It is a nikon D3300 and has a macro lens so we can up close and personal!

In the veg room yesterday we transplanted the two Heavyweight fruit punch clones into 7s. They had been looking like pissed off teens the last couple days so they got some room to stretch their legs and some food. Carnival and the purple kush reveg will need to be out in 7s as well here pretty soon. Nothing else is new as of right now.

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In the flower room they got fed last night and today the got some additional support. Halfway through flower and buds are falling over since they are heavy. That's a good problem to have! Sparkle has grown 7" taller in last 11 days of flower. She is stretching for the new light and is showing no signs of bleaching. We also picked up a plant cart to make moving her around easier.

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In the breeding tent the DDA got put into her 3 gallon since she had roots coming out of the holes in the solo cup. No swirling of the roots so she wasn't root bound. Maybe it happened like that since I had it sitting in the pot she got put into. We also added some Heavyweight fruit punch clones in there to be pollinated by the DDA all courtesy of Dirt mcgert for the idea on the Gorilla seed competition. There will be a lot of testing to do to find a good pheno and to stabilize our strains and I have no problem growing more lol.


In other news we received the 10 pack of seeds from herbies June contest. We went with Heavyweight dream machine. Oh it'll be a good one.

! Heavyweight Dream Machine Feminised Seeds - Herbies Seeds

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That's all I have for this evening. My damn contact scratched my cornea today so I'm working with one eye right now and it is extremely sensitive to light...the grow room is not the place to be right now unless I go in like a pirate with an eyepatch. But then I would have to get a parrott...kinda sounds like fun. So im going to sit here and smoke until I can see again fully...I might be here a while so some come have a seat...Bob Ross is painting for us on netflix lol.

Stay classy friends. :lot-o-toke:
 
MagicJim said:
I'm with you :passitleft:
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Im with you two. I thought I smelt something burning and realized smoke was coming out of my ears and my brain hurt! :passitleft:
 
Re: July 7

nismo12 said:
Tonight we have just a brief update of what's going on here in the garden. Tomorrow will be a better one since we will have a new camera delivered and we will have to test it out. It is a nikon D3300 and has a macro lens so we can up close and personal!
Click to expand...

OMG you will love this camera me thinks. Good get.
 
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