Weasel Forges Ahead

[Blue Earth]

No worries. You're not interrupting this amazing journal at all.
Damn! Why did you have to go and ask this now, of all times???
I may well have been talking shit. I'm not sure if I did solve the problem with bacteria- or if I solved it some other way.

At the moment I'm having a lot of cloning problems. I haven't got a single clone to root in nearly two months. I actually just two days ago gritted my teeth and ordered a commercial aeroponic cloner. I don't see why it would work better than the aeroponic cloner I once made, which didn't work for me at all. But maybe I can set it up in a different room which might potentially be free of whatever mysterious problem is plaguing me...(?)
I've been monitoring my temps closely the last week- they may have been too high. Barring that- I'm wondering if maybe the rainwater I'm using isn't sterile enough.
But I've been through many periods where I had perfect success with my clones. And this time of year rain is extremely plentiful and constantly fresh. Besides possible temperature fluctuations- my best guess currently is some sort of invisible root rot type outbreak - highly possible since my grow is hardly laboratory-clean.
Can you send me a link to that thread- in case I've unsubscribed from it or something. I've certainly done a ton of running around this issue and I did use various types of beneficial bacteria and fungi at times . Maybe we can figure something out.

Ok... Here it is: Clones rot before they root

Ill try to keep it simple.

I've done all types of grows. Indoor, outdoor, coco, soil, monsters, seeds, clones, in ground, air pots, organic, synthetic, rain water, tap water, ro water etc.. I am a decent grower but my vegging has always been pretty amazing (mostly because I have decent weather 10-11 months out of the year). Last summer got really hot 100+ for months and I watered everyday (some were soil and some were coco in air pots). I got root rot from constant watering and hot weather (I think).

Here is my deal: I tried to save them with SM90, H202, D747 *its a bacillus strain* but all that did is keep them alive. They looked ok and grew but they were not ok. I could see the stems getting the rot and they were breaking off. It ended up affecting the entire plant all the way to the tops.

Here is the weird part: After my infection, I got another set of clones (plan b). I parked them only 6 feet away from the infected plants BECAUSE I didn't think pythium was airborne. Plan b plants got sick too. So I say F' it, I am getting "plan c" clones now and put them inside the house away from a and b. "Plan c" got sick as well. I pull them all and waited 3 weeks and then got "plan d" clones.... and they have developed the same symptoms as the previous 3 plans and that is where I am. It's baffling.

The symptom is moisture stress (leaf taco). It is very similar to russet mites infestation, tobacco mosaic virus and overheating. I am not even 100% sure I don't have those first 2. They are very difficult to diagnose

My Hypothesis: If Pythium develops in a plant long enough, it can eventually can create airborne spores that are alive for at least 3 weeks.... or I may have 2 issues.

I haven't successfully cloned anything in 8 months and I usually have at least a 85% survival rate. I don't even get one single root.

Thanks for anything anyone might have any helpful info on this.

 

[Weaselcracker]

That going to send me googling. Sounds like we might both need to find the same cure.
Off the top of my head I would assume that pythium and similar fungi would be capable of doing something like sporing, because how else would they get around? Also I did once read that it will infect your plants and the clones cut from them will also carry it. Though it occurs to me that maybe I heard that contradicted somewhere else. A person could go in circles forever looking this stuff up.
My basic feeling was that in any 'normal' (by my standards) environment, it's going to be in the air now and then, if not constantly,like yeast or mould spores, and the best approach is to try and control environmental conditions to discourage its survival. If it's anything like yeast-it's everywhere and it's basically indestructible.
But yes- as you probably have read- 'bennies' seem to be the way to go when it comes to root rot.
So why aren't I using them right now....
I've been mixing peroxide with my clone water for the last few weeks and it's not helping.
I'll get back to this...

 

[Weaselcracker]

One method I haven't tried yet is one that I saw Lembatoast and Sweetsue use- which seems to involve sticking them in plastics baggies, puffing them up and tying them shut. This doesn't address our issues, but might be worth trying a new approach. Seems like I keep hopping around between different methods and some work great - till they don't. The perlite tray method has generally been great for me, with declining results over the last six months.

 

[Blue Earth]

Curious tho WC.. you did fix your cloning woes at one time right? I just need a little bit of hope here...

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah I read that thread where I said I did. Now I have to cast my mind back to that time to what I was doing right then, and whether the bennies actually fixed it or it was something else I did that changed things.
Ok I've cast my mind back.
Whoops shit too far.
Have to go look for it, will be back -don't get your hopes up mate.

 

[nivek]

Cheers friend,, cloning sure nuff do go in cycles of good and bad,,

Nice to see yer pinkies active

 

[SweetSue]

Keeping them sealed in the produce bags keeps them in a protected bubble of warm CO2. It's worth the try. I started using solo hempy cups in the bags with great success.

 

[Weaselcracker]

My master plan has been to slowly forge ahead and tidy up the large number of loose ends in this journal- so it can be actually complete, in my mind. It's going to take a while cause I committed myself to a couple things and got real busy in 'real life'.
Over the last couple weeks I've been trying to upload photos, but have been having a lot of trouble getting my connection to do that. Clear weather tonight though and I'm squeaking a few through.

To be honest I had a hell of a time even finding the upload photos link here at first. There's no mention of photos at all on the main 420 page I see. Had to go through every link digging around. I even went back and read the 'how to upload photos' tutorial.

It says -'Click on the Upload Photos option in the Gallery drop down menu that can be found at the top of any 420 Magazine page.'
Oh yeah.... ?

Looking at this again after having had a break, I'm struck by how complicated the 420 forum website is. Quite impressive that us stoners ever figure it out at all. Congrats to us all for being so dedicated.

Summer was off the rails busy and sprinkled with complications. Sprinkled as in 'pissed on from a great height'. Not that there's not some entertainment value in being sprinkled on. I guess some like that more than others. Anyway, eventually God seems to have got bored of smiting me and sprinkling on me, and moved on. For now... Mwa ha ha haa.
But the beloved plants did kind of fall to the side amidst the golden showers of bad luck.
As I mentioned, when I went on the kayaking trip, the one in which I caught the big halibut, the auto-watering system failed to work out, because somehow I set it wrong. So that toasted several of the plants. The three strain grafted sativa recovered ok, but overall it was the starting point of a summer of neglect and problems for the grow.


I'll slowly pick away at posting updates on the few plants that did turn out alright, and skip the many that didn't.

 

[Weaselcracker]

~Honduras~

This is the strain that was recommended to me by the guys at Ace when I asked them for a low THC strain. Something weak that I could smoke fatties of all day and still function great. Yeah I know, all you cool kids can do that anyway and don't need 'weak' weed to do it with, but I do, sometimes, I think.

I grew out several seeds and resulting clones of this strain, including a male that I crossed with everything in sight. This is the last one I grew. They all seemed quite similar. It was actually kind of a heavy sticky thing, branches all hanging down from their own weight and ready to slather you with sticky lemon

It's really quite a nice plant to grow. Beautiful lemony/pine smell, seems easy enough to grow, didn't really need trimming because it barely ended up with any leaves by the end of flower. Just a big fluffy frothy sticky mass of sativa foxtails.
On the down side, besides the long stretch period when grown from seed, I personally don't like the smoke that much. I've given it several chances and will give it one or two more smoking sessions, but the high just doesn't seem to agree with me. That dopey and slightly paranoid feeling I associate with some indicas, but without the nice body stone glow feeling.
I like the sort of high that enhances my super powers. A high that works with me, not against me. I don't like having out of control munchies, paranoia, or blurry hangovers. The Honduras gave me a bit of that dopey feeling - like it was clouding my senses.
This is the experience I had with the Panama I grew as well. A beautiful plant in every way except I don't like to smoke it! Similar lemon aroma between these two strains as well- so based on that extremely unscientific evidence, maybe South American weed isn't my thing (?)
Of course this is 100% subjective and I'm sure most people would like the high of these strains just fine. And Panama has several different phenos, of which I only grew one. So you can probably pretty much ignore what I said about the high...lol.
Here is a pic I took tonight of some Panama buds from the curing jar. Somewhat fluffy but very crystalline if you look closely.

The friends that tried my Panama said it was 'good', but too indica for the sativa lovers, and not strong enough or indica enough for the indica lovers. The Honduras.... was totally scoffed at as being 'too fluffy!'. True that by weight you need a pretty huge bag of it to match the varieties that come in 'nug' form. Honduras doesn't come in nug form, it's more like a dusty tumbleweed.

Next up will be the Peyote Purple I harvested a couple weeks ago. But I think I'll try to find a better internet connection (in town) before I get to that update.

 

[AKgramma]

WC: You mentioned how hard it is to find your way around the 420 site, esp if you are in your cp panel. I ended up setting a browser default tab for upload photos and another tab for for my inbox, and yet another for my grow. So among my othyer default tabs, these three are always at my fingertips.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks AK. I suppose I do that, to some extent, though my phone doesn't do a good job of holding those tabs in its memory and usually needs to refresh them each time I want to look at them, which can cause troubles. The gallery upload page does pretty much need its own tab, since it doesn't offer me any way to get back to the main forum after I've done with my photos- unless I want to rewind 'back' a few dozen pages. Anyway- it's all good, we find our way around. The site sure has a lot of bells and whistles though.
I tried uploading pics today in town where the phone reception is good. No dice- they all apparently uploaded - then disappeared. I've been trying for two weeks now with hardly any luck- various glitches and lots of waiting. I'll keep trying new things- been through this before.
I am kind of keen to upload my photos...

 

[SweetSue]

Your Peyote Purpke looks like it does what my DDAs and Devil's Carnivals do, filling the trichome stalks with red oil. How cool is that?

You'd like Carnival. Clear, soaring high with energy and motivation. Just the thing to enhance your superpowers.

"fluffy tumbleweed" Nice. Lol! Hey.... It took me a while to find my way to picture uploads too. Made me wonder......

 

[nivek]

Hey weaseley,,

Simply an FYI friend

Today is day ninety for a mama thai/Thai Stick,

Update,,,i was having hermie troubles with the plant I cloned over and over and over,, so,,,

I grew out two new seeds and took em both to harvest stage,, one of em was a monster plant and only threw out a very rare male flower right till full thirteen weeks of flower, 91 days

So, I have, right now the second generation from that monster plant, a clone from it, not really second generation,,

That clone is at ninety days flower today and has had perhaps two male flowers I have seen, and picked off, and the plant is a bloody stump,,

Unlike any plant I have grown yet,, too heavy to hold itself up anymore,, too big a mess for pics right now,, but a stump

And i think it could go another week perhaps,, so it will

Cheers friend

 

[nivek]

Kinda like that one of yours in that these sativas have very few leaves to trim off

I also have a new fav plant, a cross I made, OG kush and i think a mama thai, produces tons., produces tons of trichomes, and is extremely pleasant to vape

First time I have ever noticed the vape machine giving off more vape because of the trichominess of the bud, so,, Yay

Big honkin seeds all stripey, just like the mama thai/Thai Stick seeds you sent were

Cheers agin friend,, glad you are available to chat a bit

 

[Weaselcracker]

Sue it seems like I might have ten seeds of that Carnival stuff, if thats what that pack of mystery seeds is- so I'd better sprout some soon!

Thanks Nivek. I had to force and kick and drag myself back here. It wasn't easy- for many reasons but mainly life situation and because I've been so busy with other stuff. But I tend to wake up in the middle of the night with insomnia- as in now. So this is a good time to squeeze some 420 in and catch up a little.

 

[Weaselcracker]

....My Hypothesis: If Pythium develops in a plant long enough, it can eventually can create airborne spores that are alive for at least 3 weeks.... or I may have 2 issues.

I haven't successfully cloned anything in 8 months and I usually have at least a 85% survival rate. I don't even get one single root.

Thanks for anything anyone might have any helpful info on this.

Ok Blue Earth I did a little more digging on this root rot issue and feel like I've learned a little.
Re my allegedly clearing up the problem in the past with beneficials - it's totally possible that I did. I obviously thought so at the time. But I see in one of my threads that I also later wrote---

I never really figured out what the problem was last year, or what happened to turn it around. That's why I never finished this thread- because I never had an intelligent conclusion.
I tried a lot of different cloning methods during that time last year, the aerocloner was just one of many, and I couldn't get anything to root. My trusted rockwool method, which had served me well for years, completely stopped working- that's why I was trying new stuff.
Once I started using coco as a wicking system I started getting roots again- but by that time I'd cleaned everything to perfection, tweaked the temps, started new mothers, and introduced bennie teas, so who knows wtf was going on.

At that time I purchased some beneficial bacteria/fungi products called Subculture. A couple other things I bought were Hydroguard, as well as another powdered product who's name escapes me at the moment (starts with a Z maybe). I fed these to the veg plants.
I also tried brewing up various compost teas and feeding those to my vegging plants and mother plants.

I remember at the time thinking that my growth was far far better and plants were growing much bigger and healthier. I also started having clone success again.

- Ok so here are some interesting things I've read about pythium. Pythium 'used to be' classified as a fungi, but now is reclassified as a 'parasitic oomycote'. It's basically a sort of 'water mold'. I also read that it's closer to a type of algae though it acts like a fungi in some ways. Here is a picture of the life cycle and now you too can read some interesting words like 'oospore'

There are many different varieties. Over 120 have been identified so far. Most prey on plants but some also infect animals including horses, cats, humans... causing a rotting condition that can require amputation.

We were partially right about it spreading by air. It technically isn't airborne but does find ways to catch rides. It spreads by forming clusters of zoospores- which are rather like little sperms or jellyfish with two flagella or whiplike tails that they use to wriggle around with. Clusters of these form on the ends of stalks and then burst when ready. The zoospores seem to zip around pretty fast- at least as seen through a microscope. They need water to travel - but- they commonly travel by sticking to the feet of flies such as gnats. Also some forms of pythium can spread in dust.

Pythium infects an entire plant and spread throughout it to form a mycelium - the same sort of threadlike network that is associated with fungi - out of which mushrooms grow. Mushrooms are basically the 'fruit' of a much larger but usually unseen and underground mycelium, as you'll know if you're a mushroom lover like I am.
So it seems obvious that pythium would infect an entire grow and cuttings taken from the plants would contain it.

It also grows very well in standing water. That's my place- shit.

How to treat it. Temperature control is important to keep it down and slow reproduction. Most/all sites I read talk about extreme cleanliness. (Hmmmm not so happy to hear that either - I'll have to have a word with that cleaning lady)
There are some products such as one called 'Pythoff' (gotta like that name). I'm not sure what's in it- I didn't check. Maybe beneficial bacteria.
I read trichiderma as a common beneficial bacteria that works on it. I didn't get too deep into looking up products this time around but I think we know they're out there. Compost teas might be just as effective, and cheaper. If you aren't familiar with them there are quite a few good threads about doing that and I could dig some up.

For treating water- small amounts of bleach or chlorine and some other such sterilizers can be used. Go light and use the bare minimum-I don't think it takes much.

I think that's all I've got for now. Let me know if you run with this and figure anything out. Sounds at least promising in the sense that it would be an obvious solution to the mystery of the missing clones. Looks like I've got some work to do.
My purchased bennies have been sitting on the shelf a long time and might be dead- but I've got a compost bin and can brew up a tea and throw that commercial stuff into the mix just in case.

 

[Tead]

I also have a new fav plant, a cross I made, OG kush and i think a mama thai, produces tons., produces tons of trichomes, and is extremely pleasant to vape

Tead's been playing with genetics recently and has crossed his long-in-the-tooth OG Kush with a big, purple Malawi. I'm shooting for an enormous OGK with lots of purple.... and a new fave as well.

 

[Tead]

HOLY CRAP!!! A mold that makes zoospores... aka sperm. Wow.

Ain't live amazing in it's tenacity?

 

[Weaselcracker]

It really is. All us living things from microbes on up to super highly developed life forms like house pets. We don't even know what life is, but we sure know we want it and will fight to the bitter end to keep it. Life is a good thing. Long live life.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I got the uploads to work in town a couple days ago - just haven't had time to post much - but since I'm still awake here I'll dump the Peyote Purple pics in. Always a visual feast.
I've been smoking some well-cured buds of this lately and it's my favourite non-sativa. Not terribly strong, but a really nice calm high that's great for playing music. And the smell and flavour, which I haven't found a way to describe, is really lovely.
This is a very recent harvest. The buds have just finished drying and I'll get some pics of them, cause they're very beautiful looking- if I'm ever home in daylight hours to take some.