Unforgiven's - Picture-A-Day - Barney's Critical Kush - DWC

unforgiven said:
thanks for stopping in folks.

just gonna make some notes here I copied in my search for truth on tds meters and such.

this may end up being a long boring messed up post of my finds on the subject, but hey its info I need lol.

"I was trying to figure out why the pH of my solution drifted upwards over a day or two, even when it was just sitting there and not recirculating. As an experiment, I took a glass ball quart jar, and filled it with water adjusted to pH of 5.5. I put a ceramic air stone in it and left it run for two days. After the two days, the pH had risen to 6.5.

I read on another web site that CO2 and carbonates (i.e. hard water) may cause this, I believe in two different ways:

1) When you add an acid to water to lower the pH, and the water has carbonates (a form of water hardness?) in it , the acid combines with the carbonates to form free carbon dioxide and water. ( HCO3 (carbonates) + H (acid) = CO2 + H2O)

The free carbon dioxide (CO2) then reacts with water to form carbonic acid, further lowering the pH: CO2 + H2O = H2CO3 (carbonic acid)

The problem is that higher levels of CO2 cannot be maintained in the water, and as that CO2 leaves the water over time as a gas, there is less carbonic acid and the same amount of carbonates available, and thus the pH drifts upward.

2) Your water right out of the ground or water supply may already have a higher content of CO2 in it from the limestone aquifer, potentially decreasing your pH initially but increasing over time as the CO2 off-gases.

I suspect the air stones we use in hydroponics just makes the CO2 off-gas faster.

Does this sound right, do I understand this correctly, or, am I missing something?

I suspect that it would be good (if possible) in such a situation, to have a larger reservoir of water on hand that is aerated for a few days prior to use, in order to stabilize the pH a bit more prior to adding nutrients and pH down."


"The debate over EC and TDS has been an ongoing issue for a long time. These two measurements are used to determine the strength of hydroponic solution. Although they are widely used they should only be used as a guideline and you should always follow mixing instructions on the label of you nutrient.
EC stands for Electrical Conductivity and is measured in mS/cm or millisiemens per centimeter. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids and is measured in PPM or parts per million. TDS is acquired by taking the EC value and performing a calculation to determine the TDS value. Because TDS is actually a calculation it is really only a guess at what the nutrient concentration is. On top of that, there are three different conversion factors to determine TDS and different manufacturers use different conversion factors. In other words you could test the same solution with two different meters and get two totally different readings. But the EC is read the same by all meters the only difference is the conversion factor.

Some additional information for the geeks like us

First of all lets talk about the differences and similarities between EC and TDS. We all know that they are both a measure of the amount of dissolved solids in your nutrient solution. This measurement is used by growers to get an idea of how much nutrient is present in the solution. By maintaining the correct level of nutrients in the solution your plants will achieve maximum results. This all sounds very important but there are some major differences between the different meter manufacturers. Some of you may have noticed that some calibration solutions that are marked to read at a certain TDS may actually read different from meter to meter. This is where the problem begins.
Some of you may have not even heard of EC and others may have heard of it but do not even know what it is. Unfortunately many growers in the United States have become very accustomed to using the TDS scale while in most other countries, including Europe, they don't use anything but EC. The fact is that TDS is actually a result of a calculation from EC. The problem is lack of consistency among manufacturers when it comes to conversion factors. This is where it may get a little confusing. Most meter manufacturers in the hydroponics industry use one of two conversions. There is the 442 conversion (40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate, and 20% sodium chloride) which some say is the closest thing to a hydroponic solution. The 442 conversion is approximately 700 x EC in millisiemens (mS). Then there is the NaCl conversion (sodium chloride) which others say is the closest thing to a hydroponic solution. The NaCl conversion is approximately 500 x EC in millisiemens (mS). You can see where the confusion comes from because the same solution will read 2100 ppm on one meter and it will read 1500 ppm on the other. That is a difference of 600 ppm which as many of you know could be devastating. Both meters are functioning correctly they are just calculating the TDS using a different formula. So, if you do not calibrate your meter using the correct calibration solution your meter could give you a very inaccurate reading.
The solution is simple, use EC. With EC, no conversion is required so all meters will read the same regardless of the manufacturer."

looks like my meter calibrates to the NaCl scale of ppm


that's a start.

oh and p.s. if any of you wrote this stuff I am finding, I am not claiming it as mine. merely using it to inform myself. which, if you didn't wish to inform people, you shouldn't have typed crap up on the internet.

thank you,

and have fun eh
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Homework , that's what I'm talking about ! I can say I honestly didn't know that about co2 in water . My money is still on the vinager not being stable :) . But good job digging in with both feet and doing the reasearch !
 
hey no pain, yep trying to find out what I can. it certainly made me understand the meters better, and to know which conversion mine uses is good. also understanding what that means helps too. lol hey who hasn't read somewhere that the thingamajig they wanna buy has a super-duper zapperblapper, and said holy fawk I gotta have it!!!! without having a clue as to what it is. or misunderstood or totally dense to certain specs on something they need to buy......like meters, lol. motor oil is a great example, people are clueless.

update impending.....
 
so, onwards and upwards eh!!! ......woops she went down not up!!! no worries, I did it on purpose, lol.

she's doing good. the PH climbed to 7.1 again, so ya'll are probably right about vinegar being unstable. but, its what I got atm. so its use that or do nothing and watch it climb ever higher.

soooo I decided to do some exploratory work in the hydroton mines today.....found a nice lil rootball kinda stuck in amongst the hydroton very much like my nightmare lol. but at least I didn't have to figger out how to drill out the nonexistent net in the netpot. lmao

so I cleaned it out carefully, set her into a cup of the res water, washed up the hydroton and net pot and set her back in with a wee bit o root sticking through the bottom. didn't want to be forceful about it, so I'll just let it drive itself now.

the whole purpose of doing all that was so I could switch gears to the airstone rather than the drip tube. niiiice n bubbly.

the stats: T: 71.2....RH: 49....PH: 7.1....REST: 17.8....PPM: 539 with all my mucking about, I left the PH where it was. i'll check it in a couple hours and adjust if need be.

annnnnnd the pic.....
20160804_203608.jpg


so that's her sitting in her new lowryder.

have fun eh
 
unforgiven said:
hey no pain, yep trying to find out what I can. it certainly made me understand the meters better, and to know which conversion mine uses is good. also understanding what that means helps too. lol hey who hasn't read somewhere that the thingamajig they wanna buy has a super-duper zapperblapper, and said holy fawk I gotta have it!!!! without having a clue as to what it is. or misunderstood or totally dense to certain specs on something they need to buy......like meters, lol. motor oil is a great example, people are clueless.

update impending.....
Click to expand...

Ha careful brother ..that's the kind of thinking that sent me down this high pressure Areo road .. It was all the fancy dodads and super dooper thinga mabobs that I needed to check out . Lol
 
nope, I already designed & built a huge 4x8 table for a buddy, and helped him with the first grow. 162 site system, lol. not for me. but I do like this dwc so far.

No Pain said:
Ha careful brother ..that's the kind of thinking that sent me down this high pressure Areo road .. It was all the fancy dodads and super dooper thinga mabobs that I needed to check out . Lol
Click to expand...
 
thanks for checking up on me birdie.

just checked temps and ph they are at: T... 18.1c PH...7.1 so the ph didn't move in about 6-7 hours. temp came up .2 put a new ice bottle in for overnight.

cya tomorrow.

have fun eh
 
unforgiven said:
so, onwards and upwards eh!!! ......woops she went down not up!!! no worries, I did it on purpose, lol.

she's doing good. the PH climbed to 7.1 again, so ya'll are probably right about vinegar being unstable. but, its what I got atm. so its use that or do nothing and watch it climb ever higher.

soooo I decided to do some exploratory work in the hydroton mines today.....found a nice lil rootball kinda stuck in amongst the hydroton very much like my nightmare lol. but at least I didn't have to figger out how to drill out the nonexistent net in the netpot. lmao

so I cleaned it out carefully, set her into a cup of the res water, washed up the hydroton and net pot and set her back in with a wee bit o root sticking through the bottom. didn't want to be forceful about it, so I'll just let it drive itself now.

the whole purpose of doing all that was so I could switch gears to the airstone rather than the drip tube. niiiice n bubbly.

the stats: T: 71.2....RH: 49....PH: 7.1....REST: 17.8....PPM: 539 with all my mucking about, I left the PH where it was. i'll check it in a couple hours and adjust if need be.

annnnnnd the pic.....
20160804_203608.jpg


so that's her sitting in her new lowryder.

have fun eh
Click to expand...
You weren't running an airstone before? Not having the airstone going may be why the roots stalled before. WIth the airstone going, as the bubbles pop they get the hydroton slightly wet from the bottom up. This encourages the roots to grow down. If you are only top feeding then the roots aren't encouraged to grow down because the source of the water is up. Even when using a top feeder you should have an airstone going underneath. Just my thoughts based on what I've seen (you know, the whole 2 plants I've grown) so take it with a grain of salt.
 
hey Jayne, thanks for getting in on this.

yep it was being fed from above, but by an airline that goes down, bubbles and pushes water up. so it was bubbling quite a bit, just not adequate for any long term plan.

now, the top feed is removed, and a nice big airstone is bubbling away!!!

actually the roots weren't stalled, they looked quite nice, probably 2-3 times the mass of the plant. the were stuck on top of the hydroton, and happy to be there because that is where the water was.

the top feed was only temporary until I saw roots come through, but alas, it was countering rooting through the net to keep the roots where it was getting fed from.

at least, I taught myself something. funny the solution came from a nightmare though, lol.
 
day 25 is here, and all's well.

the stats: T: 69.2....RH: 50....PH: 7.1....REST: 18.2....PPM: 417

and the pic...
20160805_193420.jpg
 
thanks mono, it's going to be a size timeline lol. with so many plants in the tent, its a concern. that and i'll flip the light to 12/12 for bloom of this one, while continuing my autos at the same time. I've seen a few people running 12/12 on autos full time so figgered i'd give this a go.

also a side note, im probably gonna buy plantacillin from future harvest rather than hydrogaurd, seein as that's the nute line I use. should be getting some PH- as well.

thanks for looking,

and have fun eh
 
I give up!!!

the freakin uploader aint workin....

update whenever, am tired need a nap. lmfao
 
well here we are at day 26....

the stats: T: 72.5....RH: 59....PH: 7.2....REST: 19.8....PPM: 432

those were before adding my new stuff.....

plantacillin, prop-o-gator, and PH-

the new stats: T: 70....RH: 55....PH: 5.2....REST: 19.1....PPM: 472

ok, so I learned that the plantacillin and or propagator or the combo of the 2 cause the PH to drop .6 I had it ph'd at 5.8 before I added those.

think tomorrow I will refresh the bucket and nutes......maybe tonight....had a nap.lol

annnnnd the pic........wtf the uploader still aint working??

no pic for you!!!

i'll double up tomorrow.

have fun eh
 
hey thanks ya stanky bastid....lmao (dataint). what a name, lol.

but I can tell you there are people way more experienced at dwc to check out than I. make sure you catch on to some other great threads here too. that's how and why I finally decided to pull the bucket trigger.
 
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