Un-Lucky Queen 12/12 Hempy

DocBud said:
I would not transplant 1/2 gallon root balls from dirt into perlite. That's too much dirt and the root structure will be confused. I'd put a solo cup sized root ball into a 2 gallon hempy, however.....that's what I do.

And, due to the fact that the hempy's are a sterile medium, the OC plus is a good choice. Using tap water, I have not had to add CalMag, neither have I had a deficiency of any kind.
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I did find OC + at home depot. I'm using unfiltered well water, so the cal & mag oughta be ok anyway.

Thanks for the heads up on the dirt ball, I can probably whittle it down.

:peace:
 
HorseBadortiz said:
I'm sittin' on a fence that's getting harder to ride;) I was going to do dirt, and our best plants are in 1/2 gal pots w/ 30% perlite & dirt. But then, I started reading about hempies, and found yours, and Slimm's threads.

The only nutes have been one feeding of FF Big Bloom.

I've got most of the stuff for hempy buckets, but I'm wondering if it's ok to put a dirt root ball innto the perlite. I think I've seen it here, do you think it's ok?

And, I'm assuming the OC + is better for a straight perlite grow?
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Although I do not advise this because it could be hard on your plants. It depends on how risky you want to get with your crop. If it were me, I would rinse that root ball out in a large body of water then drop it into the hempy bucket clean (being sure to use H2O2 generously to clear out pathogens). Generally plants bounce back quickly from major root disturbances provided they have an environment that will not lead to pathogens. They are more susceptible at times of stress. I would also only do this after a good dose of protekt (Si) to toughen up the cell walls a bit. It will set growth back a week but it should come roaring back. No matter what, as Doc points out, the roots are probably going to be confused.

In the future why not start your seedlings in something inert like Rapid Rooters, or small hempy coffee cups with either perlite, coco or a mixture. I have done all of these and then transplanted to hempies with excellent results. Coco is largely inert and pairs well with perlite.
 
slimm said:
Although I do not advise this because it could be hard on your plants. It depends on how risky you want to get with your crop. If it were me, I would rinse that root ball out in a large body of water then drop it into the hempy bucket clean (being sure to use H2O2 generously to clear out pathogens). Generally plants bounce back quickly from major root disturbances provided they have an environment that will not lead to pathogens. They are more susceptible at times of stress. I would also only do this after a good dose of protekt (Si) to toughen up the cell walls a bit. It will set growth back a week but it should come roaring back. No matter what, as Doc points out, the roots are probably going to be confused.

In the future why not start your seedlings in something inert like Rapid Rooters, or small hempy coffee cups with either perlite, coco or a mixture. I have done all of these and then transplanted to hempies with excellent results. Coco is largely inert and pairs well with perlite.
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that's some solid advice. :smokin:
 
slimm said:
Although I do not advise this because it could be hard on your plants. It depends on how risky you want to get with your crop. If it were me, I would rinse that root ball out in a large body of water then drop it into the hempy bucket clean (being sure to use H2O2 generously to clear out pathogens). Generally plants bounce back quickly from major root disturbances provided they have an environment that will not lead to pathogens. They are more susceptible at times of stress. I would also only do this after a good dose of protekt (Si) to toughen up the cell walls a bit. It will set growth back a week but it should come roaring back. No matter what, as Doc points out, the roots are probably going to be confused.

In the future why not start your seedlings in something inert like Rapid Rooters, or small hempy coffee cups with either perlite, coco or a mixture. I have done all of these and then transplanted to hempies with excellent results. Coco is largely inert and pairs well with perlite.
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I had every intention of growing in soil, mostly cause I'd never heard of hempy;) I see a lot of advantages, both for the plants and myself<G>

So, is protect (Si) a brand name that shall not be named here? And, I've heard you mention h2o2... where would I get the 35% stuff?

Reps, I've learned a lot from you about this method, too. Thanks again.

:peace:

ok, you've got reps in your future, it seems.
 
just read this whole thread and wow good info.
I am having a hard time raping my mind on these TR nutes. i love the idea, and its crazy if this works and all this time i have been mixing all those nutes and measuring all that crap. when i could just throw some water on the girls and call it a day.

i am going to be pissed off if the TR nutes yield more then AN, after all that money waisted over all the years! But i will be happy because i can now save money and be lazy.

Now we have to find witch ones better for on bud plants Osmocote PLus, Dynamite, Nuticote or Harrel's?

2 things that worry me about these!

1. the Nitrogen seems kinda high for late flowering. ive always had better yield with less N at the end of flowering, and better tasting weed.

2. the not being able to flush kinda worries me. i am all about the clean white/grey ash at the end of my bowel, hate that black nasty nute crap left over from not a good flush.

but all in all i might use these because i thought of a huge sailing point for me. sometimes i have to leave town for a week or so, and i can set up a driper system to feed my girld but i have to mix a big bucket of water and nutes and hope the nutes dont clog the lines/dripers but the main down side is just to be safe i have to mix extra nute solution to make sure the water dosent get too low and mess up my pump and my girls get feed. now with TR nutes i can put a swimming pool in my room of just free water and let them have at it and not worry about their not being enuff water/nute mix, and save all that money on nutes. i love that idea. i also love not all those salts and flush i need to do in-order to not lock up my plant.

I think these will work great into my Hempy with 4" of perlite in the bottom res and the top being a 50/50 mix of sunshine#4 and perlite.

A+ thread Doc
 
Update:

Regarding high nitrogen and flowering....I've read and read.....I've looked at other plants, general botany....and I can't understand where people got the idea that nitrogen lowers yield or slows flowering, etc. If someone has an article or link to a study I'd sure appreciate a heads up!

Having said all that, my plants are definitely flowering more slowly than other grows I have done, which would worry me.....EXCEPT my control groups with AN are on the same schedule and are even MORE behind than the Osmocote groups! It has to do with the spraying of Reverse a few weeks ago....nearly killed 'em all.

I think I'm beginning to get root bound in the smaller pots. That would not have happened had the grow not gotten off track with the spraying. However, these plants are poised to really start swelling.

The AN plants are not quite as green, are a bit smaller and are starting to lose their lowest leaves. The Osmocote plants are thicker, greener, and the lower fan leaves are green and have a nice waxy appearance.

I've got some weird situation with the Lucky Queen. New growth on the lower branches is yellow, where parts of the leaves are bright yellow/green and the rest dark green. I'll get some pics tonite, but I can't figure it out. It's in Osmocote and has been treated like every other plant....and none of them have anything remotely resembling that.

Here's an Osmocote soil Diesel: Sometimes at the end of the light cycle they droop just a bit. She'll get watered tonight when the lights come on. It's a sign of being root bound, but she'll pull through. The soil has great drainage, and I can water more often.
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This is an Osmocote hempy: taller, thicker, stronger....and a slightly lighter shade of green, but healthy in every way.

The decision to grow in soil or hempy style will hinge on taste and smell. If the soil has better taste and smell, I'll probably become a soil grower.....mostly.
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Soil is for sissys.

I have a chart that states that P can be reduced by N - not sure where it came from. I have done a bit of searching and have found nothing to back up this claim.
 
slimm said:
Soil is for sissys.

I have a chart that states that P can be reduced by N - not sure where it came from. I have done a bit of searching and have found nothing to back up this claim.
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I did some searching and found an article from some university that said the highest yield in peppers was with 90-30-30!

This link shows which elements "lock out" others:
Concepts in Plant Nutrition
 
Here's an interesting bit of info I found

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like 10-60-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights, not because of fert blends high in P. A ratio of 10-60-10 is WAY to high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5-1-1 blend, or ammonium nitrate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 that produce a lot of bud, not high P ferts.

I rotate fert blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower/mid leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms, and give them what they need. Go back to mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1-3-2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, is one of the best flowering blends on the market because of several factors - it is higher in nitrate N and Mg. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label. An added benefit of Peter's blends is their use of high quality, very pure salts that will cut down on root burn.
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Here's another plausible explanation for the confusion in cannabis cultivation with regard to claims of N being bad for flowering.

Consider this: N is highly mobile, fan leaves are a big store of N, plants have a limited amount of TDS they can handle over a given period. People believing that more P was needed found the TDS too high so, they reduced the most plentiful and mobile element to make room for more P. Over time, many have accepted plants needing more P as gospel and have been buying up PK boosters and high P bloom fertilizers. These people have all noticed the lower N levels in these products and may have seen their plants burn when adding another product with higher levels of N. So it becomes an accepted fact that N is bad in bloom.

Also, won't N affect taste? I have heard that reducing N improves taste. That's probably due to lower chlorophyl levels.
 
Ive learn from 1st hand experience too much Nitrogen is bad for blooming cannabis. it will make you stems weaken and fall over, it will give you less smell and taste. i use to use a high Nitrogen food, then went with the Lucas Formula in bloom with little Nitrogen and haven't looked back. my bud was better in every way. i use to have allot of info on high nitrogen when flowering cannabis, ill see if i can find it? it was really good reading.
 
Uncle Ben is my favorite expert. He knows his stuff and keeps a very scientific perspective on everything. Generally speaking, when it comes to soil UB is going to give you the best advice.

slimm said:
Here's another plausible explanation for the confusion in cannabis cultivation with regard to claims of N being bad for flowering.

Consider this: N is highly mobile, fan leaves are a big store of N, plants have a limited amount of TDS they can handle over a given period. People believing that more P was needed found the TDS too high so, they reduced the most plentiful and mobile element to make room for more P. Over time, many have accepted plants needing more P as gospel and have been buying up PK boosters and high P bloom fertilizers. These people have all noticed the lower N levels in these products and may have seen their plants burn when adding another product with higher levels of N. So it becomes an accepted fact that N is bad in bloom.

Also, won't N affect taste? I have heard that reducing N improves taste. That's probably due to lower chlorophyl levels.
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There's a debate over flushing and curing....but one thing is for sure: Overfeeding your plants will make them taste bad. I think overfeeding N is bad, just the same as overfeeding P, K, Mg or any other.

More to the point, feeding them balanced nutrition will help them yield as well as taste good. :yummy:

irishboy said:
Ive learn from 1st hand experience too much Nitrogen is bad for blooming cannabis. it will make you stems weaken and fall over, it will give you less smell and taste. i use to use a high Nitrogen food, then went with the Lucas Formula in bloom with little Nitrogen and haven't looked back. my bud was better in every way. i use to have allot of info on high nitrogen when flowering cannabis, ill see if i can find it? it was really good reading.
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I'd really like to see an actual study regarding high nitrogen in flower. But, we should define "high." I don't think 16-9-12 would be considered high....but 4-12-9 would definitely be low!

This study is with Lupin, which is quite similar to Cannabis as far as life cycle, etc. Nitrogen Deficiency Slows Leaf Development and Delays Flowering in Narrow-leafed Lupin | Annals of Botany | Oxford Academic
Effects of nitrogen (N) supply on leaf and ¯ower development in Lupinus angustifolius L. cv Merrit were examined
in a temperature-controlled glasshouse. Low N supply (0±05 or 0±4 mm N) had little effect on leaf initiation but slowed
leaf emergence on the main stem compared with plants receiving high N supply (6±0 or 6±4 mm N), or with symbiotic
N#-®xation. Plants experiencing transient N de®ciency had slower leaf emergence than plants with a continuous
supply of 6±4 mm N. Nitrogen supply did not affect the time of ¯oral initiation, which occurred within 4 weeks of
sowing, by which time nine to ten leaves had emerged. However, the ¯owering of low-N plants was delayed by 68 to
220 °C d (i.e. 4±14 d) even though they had fewer leaves. The effect of N de®ciency on ¯owering time was largely a
result of slower leaf emergence. # 1997 Annals of Botany Company
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Other studies show that "high" nitrogen causes problems....like burning, wilting and delayed onset of flower. But that definition of "high" includes burning the plants.

Again, I don't think by growing healthy plants ANYTHING will suffer. And that means keeping as many green, healthy leaves as possible.
 
Update pics:

Skunk/Diesel in soil, Osmocote. The AN plant is in the foreground and the color difference is nearly true to life. As you can see the Osmo plants are far greener...not a burned or browned tip on one of 'em, since the spraying.
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Below is a Hempy Osmocote. Very healthy but a lighter shade of green compared to the soils.
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OBXGardener said:
Is the hempy osmocote plant growing faster than the soil plants? Could account for the lighter shade of green.
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yep.....the hempys grew faster, and are larger. Now that stretch has stopped, they are getting darker too.

Also, I think I'll use a little less Osmocote in the soil next time....they aren't burned, but damn they're dark green!

I'm starting to draw some conclusions about growing 12/12......but will wait until I see the grow through before commenting on the method. This is another grow that can be chalked up to learning.....I think by grow 5 or 6 I'll really have act together.
 
DocBud said:
Also, I think I'll use a little less Osmocote in the soil next time....they aren't burned, but damn they're dark green!
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Doc, I've got old timer's disease... I'm sure you said, but how much Osmocote and how big a bucket? Thanks.

:peace:

PS I had a Tito's 'tini for your girls last night... no nutes were mixed LOL
 
DocBud said:
I'm starting to draw some conclusions about growing 12/12......but will wait until I see the grow through before commenting on the method. This is another grow that can be chalked up to learning.....I think by grow 5 or 6 I'll really have act together.
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I just finished reading this whole journal the other day and I am really looking forward to your conclusions on the 12/12 system and your final thoughts on using the TR nutes. Great journal!

:nicethread:
 
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