What I like doing best is tying over so the lower branches even out with the top branch less stress no bounce back time and same bushy plant result. Check out my journal in my signature it’s only 1 page bunch of pics. One of the pics is the way I tie over and you can see the results in the canopy shot.
Twnewell's First Grow
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Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Should you, is a loaded question that everyone will have an opinion on.
How to do it is also loaded with bear, and everyone has a method that they like. I am a big fan of Uncle Ben's method, where he teaches to let it grow out to the fifth node, and then chop it back between the 2nd and 3rd. This method produces an amazing plant in my personal opinion and one that I have learned to manage well in the tent. My intent is to keep my plants short all roughly the same height, and with lots of buds. Other methods top at node 3 and 4 and even later, and get different results... also every branch tip can be topped, making it two buds at the terminal end. It is my goal to take a normal vertically growing plant with one main top, and end up in flower with a plant that has 10-20 tops on it.
So yes, topping is good.... unless it is an auto. You should definitely do some research and try one of the popular methods. Check out my current journal for a recent example of a dramatic topping between nodes 2 and 3.
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- #24
twnewell
Well-Known Member
I am kind of nervous to try this while doing my first grow. You think this is something that should be attempted right out of the gate? Right now they are growing so well that i almost hate to disturb them, but on the other hand what happens if i only have one female. Topping will help me produce more bud sites so ill have a little more product in the end. Decisions, decisions.
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- #25
twnewell
Well-Known Member
You can see clearly in the pic the positioning of the twine to tie over and the result is dramatic. No cutting. No stress. No time lost
What is the benefit of doing this? To me it just looks like you bent the plant over to the side. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't see why this is beneficial. Is it to let more light get to the leafs on the side?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
exactly... veg is the time to experiment... and keeping your plants short should be one of your primary concerns... keep in mind that whatever height you start into flower with, the plant is going to stretch to 2 to 3 times its veg height in that first 2 weeks of flower. With that in mind, there is no time like the present to learn this tool of the trade. Be brave, and check out the pictures of the dramatic cuts I have made on my plants in the last few days.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Let me repeat, after saying that topping does not "hurt" the plant, it just slows it down a little bit, but when it accelerates all the growth under the cut, I have to believe that the process is just as fast as LST (low stress training by bending).
- Topping between nodes 2-3 creates 4 main tops, just like a FIM that actually worked.
- Topping between nodes 3-4 will produce between 2 and 3 tops and sometimes even 4... it is a crap shoot and not as reliable as the one below in producing more than 2 tops
- Topping at node 4 or above will almost always produce just 2 tops.
- Topping any branch tip, will produce 2 branch tips.
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- #29
twnewell
Well-Known Member
It’s all very interesting. I’ll have a think about it till Saturday then make a decision. The waiting in veg is fine for me, time I got. Rather take longer and have a better plant. With that said the LST looks interesting as well. I’ll definitely keep you all posted.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
let me further confuse the issue by saying that after this severe topping that I am doing, I will then take what grows out and will bend it over just like in LST, creating 4 clear quarters of plant growth in my container. This will accelerate all of the lower growth and each of the 4 main branches will send 2 - 4 more secondary buds up to the top of the canopy. My plants treated in this way generally have 12 or more bud producing branches, and my final yield is many times more than would have been with an untrained / untopped plant. Because I start early and aggressively with this, I accomplish all of this without having to take 2 months or longer in veg, and I can keep my plants short and approximately the same height so I can have an even canopy under the big lights.
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- #31
twnewell
Well-Known Member
So LST bends the plant over to allow more light to get to more grow sites around the nodes. Is this correct?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Thats part of it, but its more about the hormone [auxins] that are activated when you bend the growth tip down below the top of the plant. This to the plant indicates severe distress at the top, ie, I have just run into an obstruction, a ceiling. This makes the plant increase activity to the nodes below the one having distress, causing all the lower growth to rise to the top to try to become dominant. This allows nodes that never would have developed in a vertical plant to rise up and become part of the canopy. If you open up the plant so that all of these lower nodes have the light and air they need, they all will try to gain dominance because of the LST, and your result is a lot of buds and an even canopy.
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- #33
twnewell
Well-Known Member
I think this may be the way I’m going to try. No solid decision yet, but it seems extremely fascinating to me. Only problem is I’m growing in a 4x4 and not sure if I’ll have enough room to do it right. I guess that’s where the training comes into play.
Just wanted to point out with the FIM method done correctly I’ve had 1 top turn into 12 top buds on multiple plants. The plant in the photo I posted has 7 top buds. This is my explanation for my LST method. IMO it’s more effective with much less effort than topping or even topping twice and tying. Also when I’m at work and I cut my finger it hurts and it slows me down same with sprained ankle it hurts and it slows me down. I could only imagine it’s the same for plants....!?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I am in a 2x4... and that is why i train so aggressively. It is extremely fascinating. Check out what I just did in my journal!
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I tried for quite a while to get FIM right and I never could get consistent with it... It is also my experience that a FIM takes a few extra days to recover from... the plant really seems confused for a while as it figures out what to do. And... it doesn't always work. Topping correctly works every time... every time. And if done along with LST, a superior shape can be formed that can produce a lot of buds...
I am not sure which method can do this the fastest, the most reliably and the easiest... but personally I find LST to be a bit stressful, especially when I end up with tie downs all over the place and then there is the problem of trying to transplant with all that hardware in there. My method of choice these days gives me a solid, short, high producing plant with minimal effort... thereby making it superior to straight LST in my book. It all is a matter of personal preference though, isn't it?
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- #37
twnewell
Well-Known Member
What is the ratio between plant hight or size vs planter. I mean how big of a pot will I need for a plant that will be say 3 feet tall at the end of flowering.
TriangleCheese
Well-Known Member
I suggest topping them twice mate. No hassle just cutting. I top them and at the same time I use LST on them. They really don't give it a sh.t. You will have a nice canopy if you top twice. Focus on the top material and crop everything below big fan leaves. Make sure every bud or cola gets equal amount of light. That is the key for a great yield and quality. Also I suggest keeping the MH bulb for the first 2 weeks of flowering. HPS can make your plants stretch more. You should cover more surface area and keep your plants bushy, not tall.
Also check these topics for a little bit more advanced tweaks;
- Tip spreading
- Supercropping
- Backbuilding
These will help you achieve remarkable results in your first grow. Also consider SCROG and decide if you will flush them or not. I suggest watering with plain water once per 3 feeding. That way your plants will always stay in grow area and tied around a net. Plus you properly flush them.
Also check these topics for a little bit more advanced tweaks;
- Tip spreading
- Supercropping
- Backbuilding
These will help you achieve remarkable results in your first grow. Also consider SCROG and decide if you will flush them or not. I suggest watering with plain water once per 3 feeding. That way your plants will always stay in grow area and tied around a net. Plus you properly flush them.
TriangleCheese
Well-Known Member
There is not a certain ratio that works for every plant. Some plants are strong enough to bulk 30-40cm colas but some others are simply don't have the same conditions or genetics. What you need to do is to cover all the surface area and keep them as short as you can if we are talking about indoor grows. You are using hot bulbs so you definately want to keep this proper distance between the light and canopy.
Congratulations on your first grow and welcome to the forum!
You’re getting a lot of help already, all good advice. Everyone right about topping.
I usually top above the third node and trim off the lowest branch. Sometimes top twice depending on how bushy i want it. I train as needed and sometimes LST. Sometimes they go au naturel.
Good luck with your grow.
It seems you have a very light mix, just sphagnum moss, perlite and a small amount of natural material. That’s pretty easy to manage, it won’t get waterlogged. What nutrients are you using.
You’re getting a lot of help already, all good advice. Everyone right about topping.
I usually top above the third node and trim off the lowest branch. Sometimes top twice depending on how bushy i want it. I train as needed and sometimes LST. Sometimes they go au naturel.
Good luck with your grow.
It seems you have a very light mix, just sphagnum moss, perlite and a small amount of natural material. That’s pretty easy to manage, it won’t get waterlogged. What nutrients are you using.