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- #221
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
so you are dunking them, and then letting them dry out until they droop?
The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container
- Thread starter Emilya Green
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Yes, the others I water in a circle away from the stem. The Roy I mentioned is Roy Growin
What you’re saying makes a lot of sense, Thanks.
I transplanted my Autos from the Solos to the 5 gal Smart Pots on day 23 after sprout so I don't think too late but don't know why they've stunted and why it looks like the rootball hasn't expanded into the rest of the soil, since they droop even when the pot is still heavy. It could be that Sohum soil is too hot for Autos. I was following your watering technique for both the Solo and then once transplanted. Roots weren't disturbed when I transplanted soil held together and I had a molded solo hole in the uppot soil.
I've often root cuttings in clear cups and see the taproot and know how it's the first root to hits the bottom of the pot. Since I'm using fabric pots that I have sitting on mesh screen risers for airflow, what would be the difference between cutting or breaking the taproot if I transplant again and the air pruning they're doing? The only reason I am thinking of transplanting to smaller pots is because I'm wasting expensive Sohum soil on these little stunted Autos when I have some photos I'm about to transplant that could go there. It's either cull the autos because they're so stunted or transplant to smaller pots and see what happens.Well, I planted photos direct in 5g pots before, and they always took off and grew fast too, but it does not matter. Autos is a whole different deal.
Each planta is unique, and must be treated as unique.
Well, there are a lot of other people here with tons more experience, but my understanding is that the tap roots run wayyy down right away. Let me see if I can find a photo for you from my own thread, and reprint it.
This seedling is only days above the ground, and already look how long the tap root is.
So, you can do what you want, but I would leave it, unless you need the slot.
But if you try to downsize the pot now, you will almost undoubtedly cut the taproot (unless you do a water dissolve, or something like that).
Again you can do what you want, but I would wait for Emmie to advise you.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
If you ask me, I would cull anything stunted and start over, so I could get a proper return on my time. But everyone has their way of doing things. I hope this is helpful in some way.
Since I grow outside and I've got plenty of free bloom nute samples. The only time I'm using is the few minutes to transplant into the smaller pots so no real time burden on me. 2 of the autos are blooming and will yield something that I want to see what they're like. The other "auto", I don't think is even an auto because it is not stunted but is not flowering at all either. It's growing like a photo and just getting bigger everyday.
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- #229
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Once you see the first pistil, you have about a week for it to transition to bloom. Once in bloom you have about another week of stretch still ahead, where the roots continue to grow. After that, all energy goes to the blooms. For the purists, yes, a bit of root growth still occurs, but 95% of it is done.
These Autos started blooming June 7th so they've been in bloom for over a month, so there's no more stunting that can really happen if I transplant them to smaller pots so I don't waste this supper soil on these small plants??
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- #231
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Plants in veg adapt to whatever we do to them, but plants in bloom react to things that happen. They no longer have the time or the ability to adapt, so sometimes that reaction will be to hermi, thinking that this is the only way to end up completing its life mission. Its not worth the risk. Live and learn and move on. Bloom these out, quit worrying about "wasting" a bit of soil, and continue moving forward.
I
I just wish I could figure out why they stunted. I don't think that day 23 was too late to transplant and I still feel I watered them right but either the genetics were bad (they are from 00 Seed Bank) or Sohum Living Soil is just too hot even though I followed their protocol for Autos. And it could be the genetics since one of these Autos doesn't seem to even be a Auto. From what they look now I will probably get about a quart Mason jar full of bud from each plant.
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- #233
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but blaming everything but you might make you feel better, but I am afraid that it doesn't reflect reality. You didn't remove them from the solo cups until a week away from them starting to bloom, and it was too late. They probably starting to stall out 4 or 5 days prior to that. Sohum is NOT too hot... especially for an established plant. You can blame the seedbank, but that also is not as likely as you simply missing the signs to uppot. I just know that my Auto was ready to transplant at probably day 16, and I waited until day 18, which was probably a little too late, but at least mine hadn't stalled out at that point. This is probably a big reason why the belief is out there that you shouldn't uppot an Auto... others have made this very same mistake.
They didn't bloom a week after I transplanted them from the Solo cups. They started showing pistils about 2 weeks after transplant and actual flowers about 3 weeks after transplant. After they sprouted, the 2 plants in question grew very slow and they didn't even look transplantable until day 23. I waited until the tips of the leaves just reached the edges of the cups until I transplanted them. Once I transplanted them, they took right off but then stalled 2 weeks later. I will have to look back because maybe it is on another thread but I've been questioning if it was my fault the stunted. I've been questioning if I was wrong to transplant them at all and that I should have started them in their final pots like it is often advised with Autos. I've also questioned if it was wrong for me to top them. I feel though that my watering was on point and they weren't rootbound at all when I transplanted them, and they jumped in growth right after transplanting them with no detectable transplant shock. One thing that could have affected them was a few days after transplant we had a fluke temperature swing where we hit 100 degrees when I wasn't home, so I couldn't get them into shade. The next day we hit 97. It seems like from then on is when they stalled. The 3rd Auto I planted, (00 Kush) never stalled and just kept growing and is still not showing flowers yet! It's acting like a photo period plant, still in veg! It is also from "00 Seed Bank". These were free seeds I got from the 2020 Denver Indo Expo after attending a presentation on Autoflowers.
Actually the Sohum website (and I talked to a rep) says that Sohum is too hot for direct sowing of seeds or clones or seedlings and they need a buffer of light soil between seed/clone/seedlings and full strength Sohum. He said to wait until the leaves reached the edge of the cups to transplant Autos or so seeds in a buffer about the size of a 18 oz Solo cup.
Doing a lot of reading this last weekend and it seems like it's very common for Autoflowers to stunt for no reason, especially if they aren't from good genetics.
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- #235
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
You really need to carefully screen your advisors. Where the leaves are in relation to the sides of the cup has nothing to do with anything. Furthermore, each variety is different since some have big leaves and some have small ones. From the very first pistil, your auto is attempting to flower. I don't know what you did wrong. I do know that you are taking advice from way too many people and now find yourself totally confused because of conflicting advice. I don't understand why Autos are so popular if they are as you say, prone to stunting for no reason... I come from the camp that all things have a reason.
I don't believe the temperature was your problem, since it is over 100 in my attic grow rooms right now. If you want to believe it was the heat, go for it, but all I can tell you is that my plants don't mind.
Since the sohum guy didn't mention water use, but used the leaves hitting the edge advice, I don't think he is very knowledgeable, but you seem to want to believe him... so don't ever use sohum like that again. Again, from my own experience, I have many times transplanted from a light soil in the solo cup, directly into a very strong supersoil... stronger that sohum, and my plants have loved it every time. The only time I ever had problems with a "hot" soil was ONE time with a sensitive new seedling. FFOF burned it to a crisp. Based on that one experience, I have never started in FFOF again and use FFHF instead.
I will keep growing a few autos in my rooms over this next year or so, and maybe with more experience I will be able to advise you as to where you went wrong. At this moment, I am only guessing, sorry. I just know that with my first Auto, going into it knowing that I was in for many surprises, I read it and ran it just like any other plant. I carefully monitored water use, and refused to overwater when she stunted in the first week, and have until bloom forced her to use the water before I watered again. I think it might surprise you if you go through my journal to figure out how many times I watered her and how long I made her go between waterings. Yes, it might in fact be easy to stall these plants out, probably with improper watering, so you have to keep your eye on the ball at all times. My plant is now huge, and only stalled out once, in the first 7 days, which according to reports was exactly how this strain acted for other folks. Once we got through that, with me refusing to water her until she got with the program, she has been full speed ahead since then.
I hope you figure it out and have better luck with your next grow, but my best guess is that your problem has something to do with management of the water, but of course, being the watering lady, I am probably biased in that direction.
I don't believe the temperature was your problem, since it is over 100 in my attic grow rooms right now. If you want to believe it was the heat, go for it, but all I can tell you is that my plants don't mind.
Since the sohum guy didn't mention water use, but used the leaves hitting the edge advice, I don't think he is very knowledgeable, but you seem to want to believe him... so don't ever use sohum like that again. Again, from my own experience, I have many times transplanted from a light soil in the solo cup, directly into a very strong supersoil... stronger that sohum, and my plants have loved it every time. The only time I ever had problems with a "hot" soil was ONE time with a sensitive new seedling. FFOF burned it to a crisp. Based on that one experience, I have never started in FFOF again and use FFHF instead.
I will keep growing a few autos in my rooms over this next year or so, and maybe with more experience I will be able to advise you as to where you went wrong. At this moment, I am only guessing, sorry. I just know that with my first Auto, going into it knowing that I was in for many surprises, I read it and ran it just like any other plant. I carefully monitored water use, and refused to overwater when she stunted in the first week, and have until bloom forced her to use the water before I watered again. I think it might surprise you if you go through my journal to figure out how many times I watered her and how long I made her go between waterings. Yes, it might in fact be easy to stall these plants out, probably with improper watering, so you have to keep your eye on the ball at all times. My plant is now huge, and only stalled out once, in the first 7 days, which according to reports was exactly how this strain acted for other folks. Once we got through that, with me refusing to water her until she got with the program, she has been full speed ahead since then.
I hope you figure it out and have better luck with your next grow, but my best guess is that your problem has something to do with management of the water, but of course, being the watering lady, I am probably biased in that direction.
KaoticDuk420
420 Member
My local hydro store actually just gave me a bag of "SoHum Lite, auto soil." Some new shit they were given to try, by a rep or an owner, and they gave it to me use and report back about. They gave it to me cause they knew I was gonna try autos and no one there does, not cause of my knowledge base. I don't know shit
It's super light and fluffy. Big bag weighs next to nuthin. It's supposed to be water only but... I've added some roots organics rain, trinity and oregonism xl as well as hydrogaurd and msa cause I can't help myself and I had handy.
Seedling with the 3/4" tap when it went in, is killing it, her sis with the teeny tap never poked through. I'm gonna own her death?, still keeping her moist but lost any true hope.
The Sohum rep told me they were coming out with this new blend. I have the original blend. I've used it for clones with great success for 3 outdoor runs with not having to add anything all the way through harvest on the first run. The leaves never turned yellow. On the second and third runs I chose to add bloom booster to see if it helped and can't say that it did really. Using it with my current crop of clones and trying it with these 3 Autos.
You would think the soil company would know how their soil performs but maybe not. I have had really good success with this soil when growing rooted cuttings (clones). I've rooted cuttings in peat pods, then into Solo cups of light or seed mix, then into Sohum with no issues and actually good results. I did kind of take the leaf advice thing with a grain of salt and really just went by if the plant looked mature enough to be transplanted. I was originally not going to use Sohum for these Autos and changed my mind at the last minute. I wish I wouldn't have now. I've been sitting on these seeds for 3 years after getting them from the Indo Expo and decided to try them this year because it looked like I wasn't going to get any cuttings but I did wind up getting cuttings after I had already started these Autos.
Just the temp might not been a problem but the direct sunlight plus 100 degree temp may have been a problem. That 100 degrees is in the shade, In direct sunlight, in black fabric pots, it's a lot hotter I'm in the Denver area and we are over a mile high, so closer to the sun. I've read that too much light can stunt Autos. Had I been home, I would have put them in the shade. Normally we don't get temps like that until this time of year (mid to late July), not in early June.
I believe I am pretty good at watering correctly, letting cups/pots dry out as much as possible before watering again. Waiting for the slight droop or when the pot is feather light before even thinking of watering again. That's why I was so puzzled that I started seeing drooping while the pots were still heavy. It's not that big of a deal that these Autos stunted, I'm just trying out Autos for the first time but I always like to know why things happen. I still have several fem Auto seeds left. When I try them again I will do some things differently. I might try a windowsill Auto grow this fall with one pot, just for the hell of it.
DaradeGrows
Well-Known Member
So, question @Emilya, for the every other day watering/feed, do you start this once you flip the lights, or do you wait until after the transition is complete to start doing it every other day?
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- #240
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
usually it takes till after stretch, so about 2 weeks after the flip, before the roots stop growing and I can determine what my final wet/dry cycle looks like. The transition is only 7-11 days of that, so there is still a bit of time to wait.
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