The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container

Emilya said:
Hi @kreikrei ! No, I do not recommend presoaking a 5 gallon container for that would just be too much water for the young seedling to deal with. I also don't recommend 3 weeks before getting to the point that you can water normally. I recommend spraying water at the seedling for only the first few days, until it stops floating around, and then I recommend watering in a circle around the plant, out to 3x its diameter. Within a week or so, your plant should be big enough to be giving quite a bit of water to the plant and very soon watering the entire container to runoff.

It is not necessary to do anything special to keep the soil from becoming hydrophobic. You know what cures hydrophobic? Water. You do not have to do anything with hydrophobic soil other than water slowly, and as it soaks up the water it will cease to be hydrophobic. You are also not considering that when you water, even while you are not watering to runoff, any excess water that is not being sucked up by your plant, is wetting that soil in an ever widening circle, and gravity still works, so that extra water tends to fall down in to the bottom of the container. All you need to do is slowly ramp up your watering as the plant gets bigger, and they hydrophobic problem will solve itself.

Also keep in mind that starting in your final container has never been my recommendation. You can avoid all of these problems by starting off in small cups and working your way into the final container through successive uppotting. This thread is trying to show you a way to avoid many of the pitfalls of starting in a large container, but it certainly isn't the optimum way of growing a weed, even an auto.
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Thanks for easing my concerns.
Your elaborations on the small detals of your watering method made it more clear to me and that I shouldnt worry as much as I do.
Keep on trucking!
 
Emilya said:
In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya
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TY
 
Emilya, I have 3 Autos growing outside in 5 gallon fabric pots. I started them in Solo cups and they sprouted on May 1st but then transplanted them in the 5 gallon fabric pots once they were established. about one month later. I started using this guide to water them and have been trying to follow it. One of the problems I'm having is even though the pots feel heavy with moisture and I can feel moisture with my finger 3 inches down around the edges. The plants start to droop 3 days after watering. It's feels like the soil just under the plant (that was in the original Solo cups is dry even though the soil around that is moist. Is it possible that the roots are just not moving beyond that Solo cup area? They were in no way root bound when I transplanted them. I wondered if the were drooping because they were over watered but I tested watering them down the middle and the plants perked up and stayed perked up for about 3 days.
 
jokerlola said:
Emilya, I have 3 Autos growing outside in 5 gallon fabric pots. I started them in Solo cups and they sprouted on May 1st but then transplanted them in the 5 gallon fabric pots once they were established. about one month later. I started using this guide to water them and have been trying to follow it. One of the problems I'm having is even though the pots feel heavy with moisture and I can feel moisture with my finger 3 inches down around the edges. The plants start to droop 3 days after watering. It's feels like the soil just under the plant (that was in the original Solo cups is dry even though the soil around that is moist. Is it possible that the roots are just not moving beyond that Solo cup area? They were in no way root bound when I transplanted them. I wondered if the were drooping because they were over watered but I tested watering them down the middle and the plants perked up and stayed perked up for about 3 days.
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I think you waited a little too late to transplant them and I think you will find that the roots have not spread out much in that 5g. Essentially, you only have roots around that original rootball, so when you water there, they will perk up... when the water table drops below them, they get droopy.
 
Emilya said:
I think you waited a little too late to transplant them and I think you will find that the roots have not spread out much in that 5g. Essentially, you only have roots around that original rootball, so when you water there, they will perk up... when the water table drops below them, they get droopy.
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That's what I was afraid of. I transplanted them when the tips of their leaves reached the edges of the cups, which according to my journal was on day 23. Is there anything I can do?
 
Emilya said:
I think you waited a little too late to transplant them and I think you will find that the roots have not spread out much in that 5g. Essentially, you only have roots around that original rootball, so when you water there, they will perk up... when the water table drops below them, they get droopy.
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How long do you wait until you transplant from the solo cups to the final pot?
 
CaptainLucky said:
How long do you wait until you transplant from the solo cups to the final pot?
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It looks like from my journal that I transplanted them on day 23 after they sprouted. I waited until the tips of the true leaves reached the edges of the Solo cups. When I've transplanted photo clones in the past, I've waited till they were somewhat root bound in the Solo cups and needing to be watered everyday before transplanting into 5 gallon fabric pots and I've never had the problem of roots not expanding into the soil of the larger pots. But I know that Autos are different.

Would it be horrible to transplant them now into smaller 2 gallon pots since they are stunted anyway?
 
@jokerlola , it is completely 100% your call, but if they are badly stunted, unless you can grow more plants concurrently, why not start over and get a real yield?
Otherwise, you can sink time into something that won't yield so much.
It is entirely your decision.
 
el gringuito said:
@jokerlola , it is completely 100% your call, but if they are badly stunted, unless you can grow more plants concurrently, why not start over and get a real yield?
Otherwise, you can sink time into something that won't yield so much.
It is entirely your decision.
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This why I'm thinking of transplanting down to smaller pots. I'm growing outside so I'm not wasting electricity on these and I can plant more photos in those 5 gal Smart Pots. And I can still get what ever harvest I get from these Autos.
 
jokerlola said:
This why I'm thinking of transplanting down to smaller pots. I'm growing outside so I'm not wasting electricity on these and I can plant more photos in those 5 gal Smart Pots. And I can still get what ever harvest I get from these Autos.
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That sounds like a good plan. I carefully monitor my water usage, and when my autos hit the point where they were using all the water in 48 hours, not 24, I uppotted them. Everything has to move faster with an auto, since you only have 30 days or so before she goes into bloom.
 
Well, I tried growing straight in 5g smartpots without uppotting, and for me it was a big mistake.
Em and Azimuth and some others helped me get straightened out (it took a while).

I have three "legacy" autos that I am still letting run because they seem big enough, like I might get a taste or something, but there were several others where I just pulled the plug, just because they were just too small, and would never really yield much.
I know it might seem counterintuitive (like it did to me) but I would not start again in the 5g smart pot. I would start in the Solo cups, and follow Em's example for uppotting. Follow a few of her threads, and just try to get a feel for when she uppots, and how, and why.
(If you want to let your small plant run, I would leave it in that pot, because taproots can run, and you don't want to cut that tap root.)

It takes a while, but watch how and when Emmers uppots, and try to get a feel for how and why she gives the plants certain things at certain times. (The idea is to think like a cannabis plant, and try to think about the plant's needs, and give the plant what it wants, just before it cries for it).
It may seem more confusing at first, but in the end it will probably go better.... 99.999% guaranteed!
(Just trying to help. Do what you feel you need to do!)
 
el gringuito said:
Well, I tried growing straight in 5g smartpots without uppotting, and for me it was a big mistake.
Em and Azimuth and some others helped me get straightened out (it took a while).

I have three "legacy" autos that I am still letting run because they seem big enough, like I might get a taste or something, but there were several others where I just pulled the plug, just because they were just too small, and would never really yield much.
I know it might seem counterintuitive (like it did to me) but I would not start again in the 5g smart pot. I would start in the Solo cups, and follow Em's example for uppotting. Follow a few of her threads, and just try to get a feel for when she uppots, and how, and why.
(If you want to let your small plant run, I would leave it in that pot, because taproots can run, and you don't want to cut that tap root.)

It takes a while, but watch how and when Emmers uppots, and try to get a feel for how and why she gives the plants certain things at certain times. (The idea is to think like a cannabis plant, and try to think about the plant's needs, and give the plant what it wants, just before it cries for it).
It may seem more confusing at first, but in the end it will probably go better.... 99.999% guaranteed!
(Just trying to help. Do what you feel you need to do!)
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These are my first autos. Before I only grew photo clones or cuttings. Before I read Emilya's watering article last year, I used to grow the rooted cuttings in small 4 inch nursery pots or Solo cups until the weather was warm enough for them to go outside (end of May) I would put them directly into the 5 gal. Smart Pots. They would always take right off and grow fast. I've always watered the wet/dry cycle (Saturate pot and then no water again until pot is dry [pot is feather light]. Last year (After finding Emilya's article) I started up potting from Solos to #1 pots, to #2 pots then into 5 gal. Smart Pots. I can't say it yielded me bigger plants then just going from 4 inch /Solo pots to 5 gal. Smart Pots, but the plant's structures were more balanced.
I wish I would have known I could up pot Autos the same way. I was still working on the info of needing to start Autos in their final pots. I started them in Solos because of weather but transplanted them as soon as they were established but far from rootbound.

If I do try to re-transplant these autos in smaller pots, their taproots shouldn't be running because of the fabric pots.
 
jokerlola said:
These are my first autos. Before I only grew photo clones or cuttings. Before I read Emilya's watering article last year, I used to grow the rooted cuttings in small 4 inch nursery pots or Solo cups until the weather was warm enough for them to go outside (end of May) I would put them directly into the 5 gal. Smart Pots. They would always take right off and grow fast.
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Well, I planted photos direct in 5g pots before, and they always took off and grew fast too, but it does not matter. Autos is a whole different deal.
Each planta is unique, and must be treated as unique.

jokerlola said:
I've always watered the wet/dry cycle (Saturate pot and then no water again until pot is dry [pot is feather light]. Last year (After finding Emilya's article) I started up potting from Solos to #1 pots, to #2 pots then into 5 gal. Smart Pots. I can't say it yielded me bigger plants then just going from 4 inch /Solo pots to 5 gal. Smart Pots, but the plant's structures were more balanced.
I wish I would have known I could up pot Autos the same way. I was still working on the info of needing to start Autos in their final pots. I started them in Solos because of weather but transplanted them as soon as they were established but far from rootbound.

If I do try to re-transplant these autos in smaller pots, their taproots shouldn't be running because of the fabric pots.
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Well, there are a lot of other people here with tons more experience, but my understanding is that the tap roots run wayyy down right away. Let me see if I can find a photo for you from my own thread, and reprint it.

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This seedling is only days above the ground, and already look how long the tap root is.

So, you can do what you want, but I would leave it, unless you need the slot.
But if you try to downsize the pot now, you will almost undoubtedly cut the taproot (unless you do a water dissolve, or something like that).

Again you can do what you want, but I would wait for Emmie to advise you.
 
I think it is too late for a transplant to a smaller size. The damage is done, and now the plant will be blooming and will have no time to develop the roots. Next time, transplant a bit earlier. For now, modify your watering of that plant to help it survive.

Regarding the tap root... that is why it has that name. The very first job of the new seedling is to figure out its environment and within the first few days it will send that Tap root down to tap the bottom surface to find out where it is and to have a pipeline down to the bottom of the water table. Most people don't see this because they don't use clear cups, and even then, it is very hard to see through soil.
 
Emilya said:
I think it is too late for a transplant to a smaller size. The damage is done, and now the plant will be blooming and will have no time to develop the roots. Next time, transplant a bit earlier. For now, modify your watering of that plant to help it survive.

Regarding the tap root... that is why it has that name. The very first job of the new seedling is to figure out its environment and within the first few days it will send that Tap root down to tap the bottom surface to find out where it is and to have a pipeline down to the bottom of the water table. Most people don't see this because they don't use clear cups, and even then, it is very hard to see through soil.
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Emilya said:
I think it is too late for a transplant to a smaller size. The damage is done, and now the plant will be blooming and will have no time to develop the roots. Next time, transplant a bit earlier. For now, modify your watering of that plant to help it survive.

Regarding the tap root... that is why it has that name. The very first job of the new seedling is to figure out its environment and within the first few days it will send that Tap root down to tap the bottom surface to find out where it is and to have a pipeline down to the bottom of the water table. Most people don't see this because they don't use clear cups, and even then, it is very hard to see through soil.
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Emilya my Tangie auto’s are 6 days old in solo cups. I watered half your way half Roy’s way. I was thinking about up poting them tomorrow into 5 gl. Fabric pots. Any advice is gratefully appreciated.
 
CaptainLucky said:
Emilya my Tangie auto’s are 6 days old in solo cups. I watered half your way half Roy’s way. I was thinking about up poting them tomorrow into 5 gl. Fabric pots. Any advice is gratefully appreciated.
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Almost forgot, how long do you harden yours off for and do you use baggies/domes?
 
CaptainLucky said:
Emilya my Tangie auto’s are 6 days old in solo cups. I watered half your way half Roy’s way. I was thinking about up poting them tomorrow into 5 gl. Fabric pots. Any advice is gratefully appreciated.
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CaptainLucky said:
Almost forgot, how long do you harden yours off for and do you use baggies/domes?
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I think 6 days is way too early to uppot. You might as well have just starting in the 5 gallons. You are getting zero compression of your roots in the solo cup without giving her time to build up the roots. When the soil flies apart trying to transfer it out of your cup, you seriously risk stunting the poor thing. Be patient, and let her build up roots because it is not hurting a thing to let her stay in that cup while you build up roots. I uppotted my Auto on day 18, when she showed me that her roots had gained sufficient strength to drain the solo cup in 24-48 hours. Yours will be nowhere close to that.

I would NEVER use a dome on a new seedling. It handicaps the poor plant so that it can't deal with normal humidity. Plants have been breaking the surface for millennia without this additional help, and they harden themselves immediately, because they have to.
 
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