The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container

[Old Guy Teaches]

6.2 and be there. never a problem...... when I started growing weed there was No internet to read. The guy who does my Pool taught me about PH 40 Yrs ago. LOL and Epsom salt I learned from My Clone Bank..
Like My dad used to say..."Keep it simple , stupid"

 

[Brudley]

In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya

This is an amazing description of how to water plants. I've read all your sticky posts. You've changed the way I'm going to approach my watering for sure. I'm in a couple of FB groups as well, mind if I link to this post for some of my other fellow grommies? Both your posts on watering are VERY good and super helpful. I'm thinking of leaving the FB groups actually but can get much quicker answers to questions without any emails. ;-)

 

[Emilya Green]

Thank you @Brudley and welcome to the forum. I would be very happy if you provide a link to this forum for your other growing friends, for both watering articles. There was a time when doing a google search for proper watering brought hundreds of folks right here, but it seems these days many other advisors are using my words and my concept of the wet/dry cycle and I am getting a little difficult to find in the search engines. I have yet to read another watering advice column that mentions soil migration within the rootball, so it does pay to go
to the original!

Start up a grow journal here and let several of us know what you are doing, and helpful advice can be just moments away on a busy forum such as this one. Good luck with your grow and know that I am very pleased that you have found me and that I can now be an important part of your grow.

 

[Brudley]

Thank you @Brudley and welcome to the forum. I would be very happy if you provide a link to this forum for your other growing friends, for both watering articles. There was a time when doing a google search for proper watering brought hundreds of folks right here, but it seems these days many other advisors are using my words and my concept of the wet/dry cycle and I am getting a little difficult to find in the search engines. I have yet to read another watering advice column that mentions soil migration within the rootball, so it does pay to go
to the original!

Start up a grow journal here and let several of us know what you are doing, and helpful advice can be just moments away on a busy forum such as this one. Good luck with your grow and know that I am very pleased that you have found me and that I can now be an important part of your grow.

Yeah, I'm still experimenting with Journaling. I currently keep a journal with pictures in Google Keep which is completely private and add free, but kind of a pain to share when I want to. I just started a diary at growdiaries.com which is interesting but a little too busy for me. I'll be experimenting here, I've got a couple of new seedlings getting ready to repot. Since I'm growing auto-flowers at the moment I'll be transplanting into 2 5-gallon pots with living soil. Should be a very good and interesting grow, at least I hope.

 

[Brudley]

I have been paying more attention to my roots and where the water is in my plant after reading this post. It seems like the bottom of my current pots never dry completely, meanwhile the top seems dry as a bone. I use a moisture meter to get an idea of where the water is in the pot. I've been taking my time now and watering 2 cups at a time from my watering can.

My watering can working perfectly for this some I must recommend it here.

I also recently got these squirt bottles and I've got one with Cal/Mag and one with Brix Molasses.

Today I used the molasses squirting a little around the edge of the plant, then I watered it in veeerry slowly. I sprinkle about a cup just to cover the soil and then wait and watch it sucks it up. I can almost see (or imagine) a big gulp of air going down behind every drink. Thanks Emilya!!!! I think that due to my bottom mainly bottom watering that all my roots are at the bottom drowning while the top roots are starving to death. I will continue to water slowly on the edges as it dries out but may be too late for some of these girls.

This gal is doomed it seems

So here is the million dollar question... I see a lot of people say to check your dirt down to the 2nd knuckle and if its dry then its time to water. So would these mean to just ignore the bottom if its wet, and keep watering the top as it dries?

 

[Emilya Green]

I have been paying more attention to my roots and where the water is in my plant after reading this post. It seems like the bottom of my current pots never dry completely, meanwhile the top seems dry as a bone. I use a moisture meter to get an idea of where the water is in the pot. I've been taking my time now and watering 2 cups at a time from my watering can.

My watering can working perfectly for this some I must recommend it here.

I also recently got these squirt bottles and I've got one with Cal/Mag and one with Brix Molasses.

Today I used the molasses squirting a little around the edge of the plant, then I watered it in veeerry slowly. I sprinkle about a cup just to cover the soil and then wait and watch it sucks it up. I can almost see (or imagine) a big gulp of air going down behind every drink. Thanks Emilya!!!! I think that due to my bottom mainly bottom watering that all my roots are at the bottom drowning while the top roots are starving to death. I will continue to water slowly on the edges as it drys out but may be too late for some of these girls.

This gal is doomed it seems

So here is the million dollar question... I see a lot of people say to check your dirt down to the 2nd knuckle and if its dry then its time to water. So would these mean to just ignore the bottom if its wet, and keep watering the top as it drys?

The million dollar answer: checking the soil down to the second knuckle is maybe how to water in mid bloom, where you want to push water at the plants or how to water outside in the vegetable garden. It is NOT the way to water a weed, especially while in veg. Anyone using that method in veg is drowning their bottom roots.

The million dollar point I would like to make: a lot of people saying something does not make something true. a lot of people believe in the tooth fairy. This is doubly true on the internet. Don't believe anything on the internet until you have had a chance to verify it for yourself.

Lastly, a lot of people have read and many have endorsed my wet/dry watering cycle theories. I invite you to read my article on the Proper way to Water a Potted Plant, the first in my watering series. This might help you to understand why the bottom is so important. The link is on my signature lines below.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

The million dollar answer: checking the soil down to the second knuckle is maybe how to water in mid bloom, where you want to push water at the plants or how to water outside in the vegetable garden. It is NOT the way to water a weed, especially while in veg. Anyone using that method in veg is drowning their bottom roots.

The million dollar point I would like to make: a lot of people saying something does not make something true. a lot of people believe in the tooth fairy. This is doubly true on the internet. Don't believe anything on the internet until you have had a chance to verify it for yourself.

Lastly, a lot of people have read and many have endorsed my wet/dry watering cycle theories. I invite you to read my article on the Proper way to Water a Potted Plant, the first in my watering series. This might help you to understand why the bottom is so important. The link is on my signature lines below.

I agree with everything but the tooth fairy.

NTH

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I'm chiming in late for this conversation, but I have a question or two for Brudley.

It looks like you're using cloth pots and they're sitting in drip pans. Are they sitting directly in flat pans? Or do you have them elevated off the pan somehow? If the pot is directly in the pan, the water could be gathering at the bottom with nowhere to go; the bottom roots would be overwatered.

Between my cloth pots and my drip trays, I use a layer of wine corks. This allows more water to drain and air to get to the bottom of the plant.

 

[Emilya Green]

I'm chiming in late for this conversation, but I have a question or two for Brudley.

It looks like you're using cloth pots and they're sitting in drip pans. Are they sitting directly in flat pans? Or do you have them elevated off the pan somehow? If the pot is directly in the pan, the water could be gathering at the bottom with nowhere to go; the bottom roots would be overwatered.

Between my cloth pots and my drip trays, I use a layer of wine corks. This allows more water to drain and air to get to the bottom of the plant.

Hi Doc. I set my cloth planters right down in the drip trays and allow them to suck up the water that drains there. If this were a synthetic grow and this runoff contained salts, I would definitely use risers of some kind to keep this water from being recirculated and would use a shop vac to remove this extra water from the room. Since however, I am growing organically, there are no leftover salts running out in the runoff, and I really don't care if that water gets sucked back into the soil. If the water can be sucked up, two things are happening. First, if the soil isn't saturated it will tend to wick up into the soil showing you that your soil was not yet completely saturated. It can also be sucked back up because the plants are actively sucking that water into themselves. If you water at the first part of the daylight hours, when the plant can most efficiently use the water, you can actually see an extra 10% water being used, as you are watering, going almost directly up into the plant! When you see a well watered plant that can still, despite saturated soil, suck all the runoff water back up, you know you have some strong roots doing that job for you.

Once the runoff has been drawn up into the soil, the cloth bag still works as advertised, air pruning the roots that try to grow through the bag, except at the bottom. Sitting in the tray, the bottom still acts like a hard container and it is up to the roots to drain the water contained there, mainly because of gravity pulling the water to the bottom. Given a good root ball, this happens naturally, oxygen is pulled into the bottom and core of the rootball, and all is good... unless you are an overwaterer. Then, even sitting on risers can't help you... water still pools at the bottom and center of a cloth container. If you water correctly, minding the wet/dry cycle, risers or not don't really make a huge difference.

 

[Brudley]

well, I have been concerned about that. My smaller 3 gallon pots are actually sitting in a plant tray that is in the black oil pan tray. the plant tray has ridges to allow it to drain but the black pans do not. I'm working in some 5 gallon pots which won't fit in the plant tray but still fit in the larger black one. I have been looking for a solution to lift them up some. I do have some risers that i use on plants that seem wet at the bottom. I have actually been putting a thin layer of perlite at the bottom of the pot to help with drainage as well. I was watering from the bottom, had even worked out a wick system to let the plant suck up the water, but it stayed way to wet all the time. I have no longer watering from the bottom since I read this article thats for sure. Once I've finished watering all the plants I check to make sure no one is sitting in water, but like Emilya said the plant typically sucks it back up. One thing I've noticed with the RainScience pots (been working these in too and getting rid of cloth) don't soak water back up like the cloth pots, probably because the cloth pots were soaking water too. I need wet roots not a wet bag I'm guessing. Any thoughts on the RainScience pots in general?

 

[Emilya Green]

well, I have been concerned about that. My smaller 3 gallon pots are actually sitting in a plant tray that is in the black oil pan tray. the plant tray has ridges to allow it to drain but the black pans do not. I'm working in some 5 gallon pots which won't fit in the plant tray but still fit in the larger black one. I have been looking for a solution to lift them up some. I do have some risers that i use on plants that seem wet at the bottom. I have actually been putting a thin layer of perlite at the bottom of the pot to help with drainage as well. I was watering from the bottom, had even worked out a wick system to let the plant suck up the water, but it stayed way to wet all the time. I have no longer watering from the bottom since I read this article thats for sure. Once I've finished watering all the plants I check to make sure no one is sitting in water, but like Emilya said the plant typically sucks it back up. One thing I've noticed with the RainScience pots (been working these in too and getting rid of cloth) don't soak water back up like the cloth pots, probably because the cloth pots were soaking water too. I need wet roots not a wet bag I'm guessing. Any thoughts on the RainScience pots in general?

The Rainscience bags look like typical cloth bags, but made with a new high tech material. I would suppose that they could wick up water just like a cloth pot unless somehow they have developed a new one way material.

A note on your perlite at the bottom... this was a common mistake. Putting rocks or perlite in the bottom of your container actually hurts drainage, it doesn't help. Because of capillary action between the surfaces of the rocks, it will never dry out in there. The rocks actually make it wetter down there and that water tends to not exchange out like in other areas of the container, making that zone prone to bad smelly bacteria and mold. The rock zone has also "perched" your water table up above the rocks, where most of the roots will stay. Since very few roots make it down into the perlite layer, there is a huge problem draining that zone of the water that gets trapped down there. Soil has a flow through rate built into it and will drain just fine all by itself, a rock layer is not needed.

At least you have realized the folly of bottom watering and have moved away from that practice. Progress is being made. For cheap risers, consider river rocks... 4 or 5 good sized rocks can easily hold a 5g out of the runoff.

 

[Old Guy Teaches]

Agree. I use bricks under my Felt Pots.and let the excess go into the ground.BTW, I never reuse my felt......There cheap. I dont reuse anything.

 

[Emilya Green]

Agree. I use bricks under my Felt Pots.and let the excess go into the ground.BTW, I never reuse my felt......There cheap. I dont reuse anything.

it is such a major deal to remove a plant from a small cloth container, that when it comes time to uppot, I just cut them away. For a couple of years, all 1 and 3 gallon containers, because they are so cheap, were just reordered every time I needed them. Now, simply to get away from the ordering each time to be certain that I had enough and the waste of materials this results in, I have moved to hard sided 1 and 3 gallon pots, saving my cloth bags for the final, usually a 7. Those big final bags are being reused... they aren't quite as cheap.

 

[Brudley]

The RainScience bags are like $12 a piece but made of a plastic material that is supposed to be washable and reusable. Since it is plastic it doesnt soak up any of the water it all goes to the roots.
I'm only growing autos currently so only one transplant from the solo cup to the 5 gallon bags I have waiting for them

 

[Old Guy Teaches]

it is such a major deal to remove a plant from a small cloth container, that when it comes time to uppot, I just cut them away. For a couple of years, all 1 and 3 gallon containers, because they are so cheap, were just reordered every time I needed them. Now, simply to get away from the ordering each time to be certain that I had enough and the waste of materials this results in, I have moved to hard sided 1 and 3 gallon pots, saving my cloth bags for the final, usually a 7. Those big final bags are being reused... they aren't quite as cheap.

Milk cartons ? one of my pardners uses them. I just Plant my one Inch By One inch clones directly in 25 Gal. No problem. After Harvest. I toss them. I get 6 Felt for 28 Bucks, They take very near 2 Bags of Fox Farm each. The Law here is 6 Plants. I don't go More than that. I had to pay a $2500 fine a few years ago. That ain't gonna happen again. Thats why I have 6 Pardners all within a few Miles apart.

 

[Brudley]

Here are a couple of seedlings in 3 gallon pots that ive been following your excellent advice on. One appears to be doing ok the other pretty sad. Funny that both the plants from my Purple Haze grow journal are doing better and larger, still in solo cup with Jiffy seed mix.
What do you think is going on with ChemDawg?

 

[Emilya Green]

What do you think is going on with ChemDawg?

overwatering. You have soaked that entire large container. The one above is in its own little container and is being allowed to dry out, so it is doing much better.

 

[Hooprules]

Thanks! I will using this in 2 weeks. One more crop before outdoors.

 

[KaoticDuk420]

In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya

Brilliant post!!! How do you adjust for cloth pots?

 

[Emilya Green]

Brilliant post!!! How do you adjust for cloth pots?

Thank you. Same rules apply to cloth containers, because it is still a closed system. Because of the air pruning, they are just faster at creating a rootball than can be accomplished in a hard sided container.