The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container

Emilya Green said:
Hi Will11! I can't see any advantages of using a tent outdoors, but I am sure that you would be able to make it work. Regarding cups of soil out in the direct sun, yes, that might require watering a couple of times a day to keep up with the intense sun. A larger container would seem to solve that problem, at least until the plants got bigger. You have some of the best and brightest sun in the world where you are at, and that certainly needs to be taken into account when devising a method to grow weeds in it, and you are going to have to adjust in ways that an indoor grower would not.
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Lots for me to learn! The tent outdoors is in a shed. I was told auto need more than 12 hours of direct sun and I can’t give that much to them, so I thought a tent in the shed would help increase their light exposer. Electricity is crazy expensive in Hawaii so I’ll have to grow a few in just full sun and see if the autos that are hybrid (outdoor and shed) out perform them. If it’s close to the same, that would be awesome! I would LOVE to transition to fully outdoors! As always, thanks so much for your perspective!
 
Will11 said:
Lots for me to learn! The tent outdoors is in a shed. I was told auto need more than 12 hours of direct sun and I can’t give that much to them, so I thought a tent in the shed would help increase their light exposer. Electricity is crazy expensive in Hawaii so I’ll have to grow a few in just full sun and see if the autos that are hybrid (outdoor and shed) out perform them. If it’s close to the same, that would be awesome! I would LOVE to transition to fully outdoors! As always, thanks so much for your perspective!
Click to expand...
Let me clarify something... Autos can USE more than 12 hours of daylight, but they don't exactly NEED it. They are highly adaptive that way and really don't care how much light they are getting, and can even bloom with less than 12 hours of light. Considering your electric costs and the intensity of the full sun, I think you will be very happy with what is produced without using the tent. I say, give it a try!
 
Emilya Green said:
Let me clarify something... Autos can USE more than 12 hours of daylight, but they don't exactly NEED it. They are highly adaptive that way and really don't care how much light they are getting, and can even bloom with less than 12 hours of light. Considering your electric costs and the intensity of the full sun, I think you will be very happy with what is produced without using the tent. I say, give it a try!
Click to expand...
Thanks Emilya! I appreciate your perspective.
 
@Emilya Green
Hi, I would appreciate if you helped me one last time. I appreciate that you have answered all of my previous questions, I am in no rush really to get an answer :)

Day 12 from sprout, planted straight to pot, no transplants.
3 gallons (11 liters) soil - biobizz light mix, it has ~30%perlite. I presoaked the 11 liters of soil a little (0.5l water)
25-27 celsius and 60% humidity.
Autoflower - gorilla cookies from fastbuds.

My watering schedule per plant:
Days 1-5: 25-60ml water per day.
day 7 - about 100ml
day 10 - about 150ml (I started to water with pauses between days because the topsoil was drying a bit slower)


Question:Is it time to water the whole pot? Visually it seems to qualify for what you wrote.

"When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time"

11 litre pot needs about 2-2.5 liters of water. Do you think it is ready yet? It is about 3 inches tall.

I added a picture. Pot is already bigger than 3x plant diameter for all 4 plants.

Thank you very much!
I apologize for the sideways picture!
water.jpg
 
kreikrei said:
@Emilya Green
Hi, I would appreciate if you helped me one last time. I appreciate that you have answered all of my previous questions, I am in no rush really to get an answer :)

Day 12 from sprout, planted straight to pot, no transplants.
3 gallons (11 liters) soil - biobizz light mix, it has ~30%perlite. I presoaked the 11 liters of soil a little (0.5l water)
25-27 celsius and 60% humidity.
Autoflower - gorilla cookies from fastbuds.

My watering schedule per plant:
Days 1-5: 25-60ml water per day.
day 7 - about 100ml
day 10 - about 150ml (I started to water with pauses between days because the topsoil was drying a bit slower)


Question:Is it time to water the whole pot? Visually it seems to qualify for what you wrote.

"When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time"

11 litre pot needs about 2-2.5 liters of water. Do you think it is ready yet? It is about 3 inches tall.

I added a picture. Pot is already bigger than 3x plant diameter for all 4 plants.

Thank you very much!
I apologize for the sideways picture!
water.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes, it's time for the first proper watering
 
Emilya Green said:
Yes, it's time for the first proper watering
Click to expand...
Thank you.
Ill probably also add 1/3 nute solution (biozbizz grow), because the soil is meant to feed the plants for 14 days (im in day 12) and since it will probably get dry only on day 19-20. Dont want to run into situation where plants are asking for nutes, but the soil is recently watered and has a week to dry out and I cant really give any.
 
Emilya Green said:
Not sure I agree with feeding 1/3 nutes or assuming that next watering time. Watch her water usage carefully... let the wet/dry cycle
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Yeah, I am not too sure either.
I know for sure it will dry 5+ days, probably a week.
I am thinking 1/3 nutes and assuming I wont be able to feed her at last 5 days is a bit safer than running into a deficiency while the soil is still drying
 
Emilya Green said:
In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info i will take all the knowledge i can get to be a more experienced grower im about to harvest my first few ladies in a month give or take a week. Happy holidays.
 
Emilya Green said:
In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya
Click to expand...
I’m exclusively following this method now for all my plants. Have seen one of the plants demand water now every 3 days. Nevertheless, I use the moisture meter to be ABSOLUTELY sure.

1 ques: the moisture meter probes are sure to damage some roots every time I use it. Is that ok?
 
Emilya Green said:
Let me clarify something... Autos can USE more than 12 hours of daylight, but they don't exactly NEED it. They are highly adaptive that way and really don't care how much light they are getting, and can even bloom with less than 12 hours of light. Considering your electric costs and the intensity of the full sun, I think you will be very happy with what is produced without using the tent. I say, give it a try!
Click to expand...
The point of autos is to grow a speedy crop by giving many more hrs of light . May as well grow photoperiods if you going to use 12/12 light schedule.
 
guerrillabalconygrower said:
I’m exclusively following this method now for all my plants. Have seen one of the plants demand water now every 3 days. Nevertheless, I use the moisture meter to be ABSOLUTELY sure.

1 ques: the moisture meter probes are sure to damage some roots every time I use it. Is that ok?
Click to expand...
Sure, you might break some roots when you stick the probes in, but don't worry too much about it. Every time a root is chopped, it splits into two roots and continues on.
 
sutaa said:
Thank you for this thread, I'm very new to this and thankfully got here in time to save my plants from myself 😄
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I am very glad that this helped you. Welcome to the forum sutaa! :welcome:
 
Autos can USE more than 12 hours of daylight, but they don't exactly NEED it.
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I would LOVE to save electricity, but where did you get this info? I grow autos and I'm probably pushing the limit as it is in some respects: 120W full spectrum LED, 18/6, 2 plants, 50% humidity, constant 66-67 degrees air temp (corner of large storage room), soil surface temp 68 degrees, leaf temp 70 degrees. Crops take about 6 weeks. Yield, dried, runs about 1 oz per plant. Emilya, I know adding heat and increasing the humidity would result in more and larger buds, but what about leaving everything the way it is and just cutting back on light?

IMG_0452.jpg
 
MedicalMe said:
I would LOVE to save electricity, but where did you get this info? I grow autos and I'm probably pushing the limit as it is in some respects: 120W full spectrum LED, 18/6, 2 plants, 50% humidity, constant 66-67 degrees air temp (corner of large storage room), soil surface temp 68 degrees, leaf temp 70 degrees. Crops take about 6 weeks. Yield, dried, runs about 1 oz per plant. Emilya, I know adding heat and increasing the humidity would result in more and larger buds, but what about leaving everything the way it is and just cutting back on light?
Click to expand...
I get this info from over 2 decades of growing experience and watching lots of folks run autos. When I say that an auto can use more than 12 hours of light, but don't need it... I am referring to having enough light to continue blooming. An auto will bloom in any light period over 10 hours or so, but the more light per day you give it, the better things are going to be, because more light equals more energy the plant can use to grow. Some people even run autos with NO night period at all, 24/7 light. An auto getting 12 hours of light is not going to do as well as a plant getting 16 or 18 hours of light. More light means bigger buds. Cutting back on light is a mistake... this will provide a negative return on your yields. Research DLI (daily light interval) In your case, you don't have any light to spare, because 120w of light is bare minimum as it is. You should try to get more light, and more hours... not less. Adding heat and humidity, at least getting into the nominal range, would help, but cutting back on your light is not the solution you are looking for.
 
I have started 4 auto seeds in their final 5 gal. fabric pots for an outside grow. The seeds have all popped and broken ground and are about 4 days old and I am following your watering advice but I have a couple of question:

I am using a standard trigger spray sprayer. Should I be avoiding getting any sprayed water on the stems of the seedlings to avoid damp off or that doesn’t really matter?

I am giving them about 20 sprays around the stems twice a day. Should that be enough or is that too much? Should I switch to the water can now that they are above ground?

One of them appears to have its cotyledon leaves stuck together. I don’t think the seed shell is still there, how should I handle this?

IMG_4213.jpeg


IMG_4212.jpeg


IMG_4211.jpeg
 
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