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- #701
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I hope your sample pack arrives soon... these plants are starving for potassium
The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant
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- #702
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum @Seniorweeder !
After I plant the seed with a tail sticking out of it, about an inch down, I use a mister sprayer to keep the area around the seed wet, without disturbing it sitting there. I mist twice a day, trying to get just the area around where the seed is buried, about 3 inches deep. It doesn't take a lot of water.
When the plant reaches the surface, I continue misting twice a day, until the first true leaves come out and the plant is working on the next set.
By this time the plant has sent some roots down to the bottom of the cup and it is well established, then I start watering normally, soaking the soil and then waiting on the plant to be able to drain the water out of the soil... You are using coco however... and that works completely differently than soil and that is where my advice has to end. I am not a coco expert... I deal exclusively in soil. Maybe I don't understand your question... try again please if I missed.
I do not believe they will be shipped. I did not even receive an email to pay for shipping. Not gonna count on it really.
Do you really see the issue as a Potassium deficiency? If so, I should have most of the common stuff. Seaweed extract (not kelp Meal) around 0.5-3-20. I've got FFJ. Or Just make a flowering tea like in the recipe. Can you confirm the recipe is for a 5 gallon bucket brew? I've asked several times cos the pics did not mention that.
I somehow still feel that this has to do with the overwatering I did. The deprivation of oxygen should have indirectly caused this somehow. Just don't know how. The other 3 plants have no or little such burn.
I actually have an old bag of Megacrop. Not sure if I should use it?
It's not the end of the world but am really sad about this. Its gonna bother me for a while! Hope I at least learn to not do this again, if I can't save them.
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- #704
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the issue with the shipping... I suggest trying again. The tea recipe is for 1 gallon. After it is brewed you turn it into 2 gallons, or whatever you need to water your room.
I think it is much more to do with your changes in the soil recipe and your top dressings and the huge amounts of whatever you made your last teas with. Somehow you have managed to lock out potassium. A potassium deficiency has a certain look. It does not look like watering problems. It looks to me like all of your plants are slowly getting this problem, and that means it is something in common with all of them. If the problem is a lockout, caused by too much of something sitting in the soil, Megacrop or anything else is going to have the same problem... a lockout is a lockout no matter the system.
Let's look at Mulder's Chart for possible clues:
According to the chart, to lock out K, you can have too much of one or more of the following:
Phosphate, Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium. If you top dressed with one or more of these, or added too much of any of these in your soil as you modified the Coots mix, it could explain the K lockout. Some of the inputs we have talked about, in the right amounts, could have caused this.
I, too cannot understand the shipping. I can actually help them sell a ton. I have access to a huge underground local growers network that buys anything I tell them to but won't go in too much details.I don't understand the issue with the shipping... I suggest trying again. The tea recipe is for 1 gallon. After it is brewed you turn it into 2 gallons, or whatever you need to water your room.
I think it is much more to do with your changes in the soil recipe and your top dressings and the huge amounts of whatever you made your last teas with. Somehow you have managed to lock out potassium. A potassium deficiency has a certain look. It does not look like watering problems. It looks to me like all of your plants are slowly getting this problem, and that means it is something in common with all of them. If the problem is a lockout, caused by too much of something sitting in the soil, Megacrop or anything else is going to have the same problem... a lockout is a lockout no matter the system.
Let's look at Mulder's Chart for possible clues:
According to the chart, to lock out K, you can have too much of one or more of the following:
Phosphate, Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium. If you top dressed with one or more of these, or added too much of any of these in your soil as you modified the Coots mix, it could explain the K lockout. Some of the inputs we have talked about, in the right amounts, could have caused this.
Well, if its a lockout like I originally suspected, it would be a very different approach? Should I still do the tea?
If the recipe is for 1 gallon, then my tea would just be slightly stronger. If it helps, PPM of tea is always below 500ppm. Sometimes below 400ppm depending on what I put in. I've tested this and it has never burned unless I do consecutive feeds with it.
I really do not want to flush. Still leaning towards either a tea of Seaweed extract with some FFJ and Microbes. Should not exceed 300ppm. Key is, to water only when Pot is feather light.
I feel they gonna look worse until they get better, if it even happens. This is really messing with my head now LOL
I don't know if this is helpful. I searched for things in the home with phosphorus in them. @Emilya do you think it's safe to dry and grind some of these for an emergency top dress?
| Pumpkin or squash seeds, without shell | 60 mL (1/4 cup) | 676 | mg | ||
| Sunflower seeds, without shell | 60 mL (1/4 cup) | 375-393 | mg |
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- #707
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Thank you Stone, but it appears to be Potassium that is lacking, not Phosphorus; but I don't think it is because it is missing in the mix, I believe it has to be because N, P, Ca or Mg or any combination of them, are there in too much abundance.This is what i think about the lockout.
When I was watering 1.5l every other day, I was suspending the nutrients in the water. Although they may be borderline suffocating, they still managed to look decent. Cos it wasn't too much water each time.
After letting medium evaporate a little, nutes are left behind possibly from my tea and top dressing. This concentration and irregularity during a very important time in flower, is causing my lockout.
SeniorMoments
Well-Known Member
Good morning Emy.
Hope all is well ?
I am looking for your journal where you up potted the auto’s.
Maybe a couple months ago ?
Hope all is well ?
I am looking for your journal where you up potted the auto’s.
Maybe a couple months ago ?
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- #710
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
SeniorMoments
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
Oh my head! If I could pay attention! Well you get my intentions of finding a local easy input for use. I see your reasoning and thanks for the fast fix for my mistake. Again. 
ed the head
Well-Known Member
Very informative, thank you.
NoBoysAllowed
420 Member
Hey @Emilya
This is my first grow and I am looking for some advice. I started with 5 plants, but due to two un-sexed seeds and one weird mutation, I am down to two feminized Ethos Early Lemon Berry's. I'm mostly struggling with watering amounts and nute schedules/deficiencies. I need my plants to be ready to for harvest in a little under 8 weeks because I may be leaving for leaving for the holidays. I am currently 7 days from flip to 12-12. I am hoping to get my plants as healthy as possible so that they aren't delayed, and also produce good bud.
Background:
Plant One:
Plant Two:
So my questions are related to feeding rates, and frequencies. I don't want to over feed and lock out nutrients, but I also don't want to starve them since It would be 5 or 6 days until I could correct it when they need water again. I am thinking that maybe since I am feeding with relatively hard tap water (150 ppm of cal and mag combined) that I am locking out other nutrients from too high of Cal and Mag. Maybe I should cut out the magnesium since some people have good luck only running Jacks with calcium.
I also don't know if I should be running straight water through them so that the nutrients aren't accumulating in the soil, considering I have watered plant #1 with nutes two times in a row.
Thank you and let me know if you have any suggestions
Reading through your threads has already been a huge help
This is my first grow and I am looking for some advice. I started with 5 plants, but due to two un-sexed seeds and one weird mutation, I am down to two feminized Ethos Early Lemon Berry's. I'm mostly struggling with watering amounts and nute schedules/deficiencies. I need my plants to be ready to for harvest in a little under 8 weeks because I may be leaving for leaving for the holidays. I am currently 7 days from flip to 12-12. I am hoping to get my plants as healthy as possible so that they aren't delayed, and also produce good bud.
Background:
- Both Plants Were showing deficiencies before transplanting from 3 gals to 5 gals. I transplanted #2 first, and then #1 3 days later.
- Plants have been in 1/3 FFOF, 1/3 FFHF, 1/3 Perlite from the start.
- 2x4 tent with 320w 3000k + 3500k kingbrite QB dimmed at ~70% at 28" above the canopy. Light on temperatures ~75 F and 50-65% RH. Light off ~65 F and 60-75% RH.
- Vegged for 46 days.
- Using tap water left out to remove chlorine. City water report states that the total hardness is 144 ppm.
- I watered with nutrients when transplanting #1 because #2 didn't show the improvements I was looking for by just using water.
- Plant # 1 was showing worse deficiencies than #2.
- The deficencies included yellowing, and burn spots on the leaves that eventually created holes ( I think)
- Ive been checking for bugs in the soil and on the foliage but have yet to notice anything even while checking with a jewelers loupe.
- Have been using a scale to know that my plants have completely drank their water before watering again. Watering in 3 stages like you suggest here.
- 7 Days from flip to flower.
- They need watering every 5-6 days, and there is usually 10-20% runoff.
- After feeding and transplanting, although the plants still don't look the healthiest, they did start to droop less and pray towards the light a little.
- I ph my water to 6.3-6.5
Plant One:
- Transplanted into 5 gal 8 days ago and fed Ph'd water, 20% strength Jacks 321, hydrogaurd and recharge (first feeding of Nutes)
- Showed Improvements but the plant is still struggling.
- Completely dried Out, and watered again 2 days ago with 35% strength Jacks 321 and hydrogaurd.
- Showed slight improvements and had growth spurt but the plant is still pale green and no longer showing vigorous growth. Also Displaying burnt tips and clawing. Also Has some strange burnt spots on leaves and a couple white veins.
- Roots growing out of the bottom of the pot even though its raised.
Plant Two:
- Transplanted into 5 gal 11 days ago. Watered with hydrogaurd and recharge.
- Showed improvements but not fully recovered.
- Dried out and watered 5 days ago with 35% strength jacks 321 and hydrogaurd. and showed great improvements.
- Leaves are greener than plant #1 but I think somewhat pale still. Burnt tips and clawing.
- My exhaust fan fell when I was adjusting it which is what I believe the damage on one of the mains is from. I topped it after I noticed the damage since I didnt think the original main would heal.
So my questions are related to feeding rates, and frequencies. I don't want to over feed and lock out nutrients, but I also don't want to starve them since It would be 5 or 6 days until I could correct it when they need water again. I am thinking that maybe since I am feeding with relatively hard tap water (150 ppm of cal and mag combined) that I am locking out other nutrients from too high of Cal and Mag. Maybe I should cut out the magnesium since some people have good luck only running Jacks with calcium.
I also don't know if I should be running straight water through them so that the nutrients aren't accumulating in the soil, considering I have watered plant #1 with nutes two times in a row.
Thank you and let me know if you have any suggestions
Reading through your threads has already been a huge help
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- #716
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
You are doing some unconventional things, such as using hydrogard in soil. I also think you are misreading a potassium deficiency on the margins of your upper leaves, thinking it is a burn. Based on this misdiagnosis, you are giving 1/5 the suggested nutes. Occam's razor says to stop right here... we know the cause of your deficiencies... 1/5 suggested nutes. Also, you don't need to remove chlorine... it is a waste of time and not necessary in anything but a purely organic grow or a lab clean hydro operation. Soil doesn't care about a little bit of chlorine and the plants actually need a little bit of it. Recharge is all microbes... implying that you are organically growing and need them to feed your plants, but you are giving Jacks, a vegan fertilizer that does not use the microbes to feed the plants. 2 competing systems, but frankly, the microbes are not doing much for you in this grow... Jacks is carrying the load. Lastly, to be complete... you talk twice of pH adjusted water... but never have mentioned the pH of your nutrient solution after mixing. Are you measuring the pH moments before applying it to the soil or just your water before adding anything? Are you even sure that Jacks needs to be pH adjusted since it is a vegan fertilizer? Also, the nature of Jacks, I think you need to apply it with every watering... never giving plain water... but I could be wrong since I havent used Jacks for almost a decade.
NoBoysAllowed
420 Member
Thanks for the response,
The reason I am using hydroguard was because earlier in this grow (before reading this thread) I was over watering my plants pretty badly and was concerned about root rot. I was under the impression that it was fine to use in soil. The reason I am using it now is because I didn't want any issues with the plants taking 5-6 days to dry out.
I am using recharge because I thought that soils with extended release nutrients such as FFOF and FFHF would benefit from some help from breaking down the nutrients. Also I thought recharge was supposed to help root health with the added Humic and Fulvic acids.
As for ph, I always adjust it after adding any supplements or nutrients to the water. I add citric acid to my Nutrient or supplement solutions to get the ph in the range of 6.3-6.5. I always mix the solution and adjust the PH around 10 minutes before I water and then check again while watering to make sure it was getting thrown off by undissolved nutrients or dissolved oxygen. Jacks is buffered to 5.8 to 6.3 I believe.
The reason I was concerned about upping the nutrient dosage is because plant #1 which was fed twice, once at 20% and another at 35%, is doing worse than plant #2 which was fed only once at 35%. I guess the explanation could be as simple as plant #1 is more hungry for nutes.
Like I mentioned Its my first grow, so I am probably just overthinking things. I'll bump up the nutrients from 35% to 55% and see how they react. If you think I should go with another nutrient line, I am open to suggestions.
Thank you for inspiring some confidence in my grow!
The reason I am using hydroguard was because earlier in this grow (before reading this thread) I was over watering my plants pretty badly and was concerned about root rot. I was under the impression that it was fine to use in soil. The reason I am using it now is because I didn't want any issues with the plants taking 5-6 days to dry out.
I am using recharge because I thought that soils with extended release nutrients such as FFOF and FFHF would benefit from some help from breaking down the nutrients. Also I thought recharge was supposed to help root health with the added Humic and Fulvic acids.
As for ph, I always adjust it after adding any supplements or nutrients to the water. I add citric acid to my Nutrient or supplement solutions to get the ph in the range of 6.3-6.5. I always mix the solution and adjust the PH around 10 minutes before I water and then check again while watering to make sure it was getting thrown off by undissolved nutrients or dissolved oxygen. Jacks is buffered to 5.8 to 6.3 I believe.
The reason I was concerned about upping the nutrient dosage is because plant #1 which was fed twice, once at 20% and another at 35%, is doing worse than plant #2 which was fed only once at 35%. I guess the explanation could be as simple as plant #1 is more hungry for nutes.
Like I mentioned Its my first grow, so I am probably just overthinking things. I'll bump up the nutrients from 35% to 55% and see how they react. If you think I should go with another nutrient line, I am open to suggestions.
Thank you for inspiring some confidence in my grow!
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- #718
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the quick and somewhat terse reply earlier... I only had a few minutes before I had to go somewhere, and I threw out a lot at once. I did fail to mention the holes in your leaves... that looks like a bug, and a hungry one at that. I would work on finding that critter fast.
Regarding the root rot thing... unless you constantly water too often and always have stale water sitting in the bottom of your containers, root rot doesn't happen. Hydroguard is a thing that is used in hydro systems to keep mold and such from growing in the tanks... it really has no application in soil. If some hydro shop sold you that to use in soil, go back and kick him in the shins because he is a crook.
If you master the concepts that I explain about the wet/dry cycle, you will have learned that it is rare, and maybe a one time occurence in the building of a root ball, where the container would go 6-7 days between waterings. As you build up the roots that time between waterings steadily diminishes until it is time to uppot to again gain time to live your life between waterings again, and continue to build up the roots.
Lastly, I wish to comment on your name and say that I totally agree... Other than regular visits from my Dad and Brother, no boys are allowed at our place either.
Regarding the root rot thing... unless you constantly water too often and always have stale water sitting in the bottom of your containers, root rot doesn't happen. Hydroguard is a thing that is used in hydro systems to keep mold and such from growing in the tanks... it really has no application in soil. If some hydro shop sold you that to use in soil, go back and kick him in the shins because he is a crook.
If you master the concepts that I explain about the wet/dry cycle, you will have learned that it is rare, and maybe a one time occurence in the building of a root ball, where the container would go 6-7 days between waterings. As you build up the roots that time between waterings steadily diminishes until it is time to uppot to again gain time to live your life between waterings again, and continue to build up the roots.
Lastly, I wish to comment on your name and say that I totally agree... Other than regular visits from my Dad and Brother, no boys are allowed at our place either.
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- #719
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I also seem to remember that Jacks had 2 products that were needed in bloom... their base and then a bloom product too... are you using both of those or is this a new compilation that takes care of all of that? It has been a while since I looked at Jacks.
NoBoysAllowed
420 Member
I was just happy to get a response because I was getting pretty stressed out. Thank you again!
So the holes have been freaking me out too, but at this point it feels like I'm ghost hunting. I carefully inspect my plants everyday and have never noticed anything out of the ordinary. When I transplanted my plants I checked out the soil and didn't see anything either. This lead me to buying a jewelers loupe to check for the smaller pests in the leaves and soil, but again nothing... The only place I haven't checked is the physical tent like under the flood mat. Anyway I want to believe that its from whatever deficiencies I was dealing with about a 1.5 weeks ago. The plants have were suffering pretty bad before I fed and transplanted them, but lately I am not noticing any more holes developing. Is it possible that the leaves could have just died in the spot and fell out?
As for rootguard I sadly cannot blame any hydro shop for that. It was my own paranoia haha. It works pretty well as PH Up so I think that's the only time Ill break it out from now on. And yes I was overwatering pretty heavily.
I have been following the wet dry cycle since then ( I know for sure since I weigh the pots) but my days between watering only seem to go down ~one day for every two cycles. I'm sure this is probably due to me accidentally stressing them out all time though.
To my knowledge most people using Jacks 321 do not use the bloom booster. I was under the impression that the 10-30-20 bloom was a fairly new product but I'm not positive. The Jacks 32 recipe is pretty similar to the mega crop 2 part recipe it seems. The NPK is exactly the same, but the suggested ratios are different. According to mega crops website jacks is just missing the "Amino Acid Chelated Micronutrients, 18 Plant sourced Amino Acids, and Soluble Silica". I mention this because I saw that you did a grow with mega crop. I'm not sure on history of jacks 321, but I know that their most recent change to the 5-12-26 was an increase of magnesium 3% to 6%.
I am tempted to try out the jacks 32 recipe where you leave out the Epsom. But I'm not sure If I want to change more variables.
Time to mix up some nutrients, Plant #2 should be very thirsty right about now.
Much to the
community!
So the holes have been freaking me out too, but at this point it feels like I'm ghost hunting. I carefully inspect my plants everyday and have never noticed anything out of the ordinary. When I transplanted my plants I checked out the soil and didn't see anything either. This lead me to buying a jewelers loupe to check for the smaller pests in the leaves and soil, but again nothing... The only place I haven't checked is the physical tent like under the flood mat. Anyway I want to believe that its from whatever deficiencies I was dealing with about a 1.5 weeks ago. The plants have were suffering pretty bad before I fed and transplanted them, but lately I am not noticing any more holes developing. Is it possible that the leaves could have just died in the spot and fell out?
As for rootguard I sadly cannot blame any hydro shop for that. It was my own paranoia haha. It works pretty well as PH Up so I think that's the only time Ill break it out from now on. And yes I was overwatering pretty heavily.
I have been following the wet dry cycle since then ( I know for sure since I weigh the pots) but my days between watering only seem to go down ~one day for every two cycles. I'm sure this is probably due to me accidentally stressing them out all time though.
To my knowledge most people using Jacks 321 do not use the bloom booster. I was under the impression that the 10-30-20 bloom was a fairly new product but I'm not positive. The Jacks 32 recipe is pretty similar to the mega crop 2 part recipe it seems. The NPK is exactly the same, but the suggested ratios are different. According to mega crops website jacks is just missing the "Amino Acid Chelated Micronutrients, 18 Plant sourced Amino Acids, and Soluble Silica". I mention this because I saw that you did a grow with mega crop. I'm not sure on history of jacks 321, but I know that their most recent change to the 5-12-26 was an increase of magnesium 3% to 6%.
I am tempted to try out the jacks 32 recipe where you leave out the Epsom. But I'm not sure If I want to change more variables.
Time to mix up some nutrients, Plant #2 should be very thirsty right about now.
Much
to the community!