The Perpetual Healing Garden - SweetSue's Joyful Return

Let's take a breath and gain a little clarity here, OK?

First off, our tap water is tested. We kinda insist on that little detail. :cheesygrinsmiley:

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Tim Wilson, also affectionately referred to as "Microbe Man," has devoted countless hours of his time researching microbes and their interaction in soil, with a special eye to aerated compost teas. If you want to know about teas, Tim's your man.

He's also taken the time to determine what is necessary to do to counteract the chloramines added to our water. They will impact the health of your soil, but they are easily neutralized with the simple addition of some organic material.

I choose to use BSM. There's a great misunderstanding about BSM. It's much more than simple sugar, and contains a wealth of micronutrients that benefit the micro herd, even in this small quantity. If I'm using something to nutralize my water it makes sense to me to make that something beneficial. There is nothing detrimental being done to my micro herds with my minuscule addition of two tiny drops of BSM to each and every gallon of water I use.

From Tim himself:

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Last, but not at all least, a gentle reminder that my use of tap water neutralized by this small addition of BSM has not killed anything I've grown, nor has that been the cause of any problem I've had with my latest soil mixes.

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I'm still learning. Coming at someone who's still learning and managing to keep the plates spinning even when things get dicey might not work so well on someone not as strong, loving and forgiving as I am Duggan. We're gonna talk about some gentle ways to make your points without scaring people away.

You have a great gift for growing and your passion for the system draws us to you. We need to find ways to express that passion that attract more to your brilliance. I'll never stop seeing it, regardless of the explosiveness of your reactions at times. I find you endearing. Someone more sensitive........ maybe not so much. :hugs: :Love:
 
Well,
it may be time to tone things down a bit and expand the discussion.

I was caught off guard when Sue added the molasses, mostly because she said it would neutralize the chloramines. That was the first time I have heard of using molasses for this.

So if it does neutralize chloramines, does it have an effect on chlorine? Chloramines were added to water treatment after 911 because it stayed in water longer than chlorine. Just leaving it in an open container, it takes something like 30 days to dissipate as I understand it.

What is happening to neutralize the chlorine? Is it the potassium?

Is it the carbohydrates or the potassium that is going to unbalance the soil mix?

Looking back, I believe you have been adding some molasses to all of your water. Adding some all the time could throw your soil balance off and could explain the clawing leaves you are getting. The constant addition of extra calcium could be playing a part.

I blew a RO membrane and was not checking TDS or PH because I thought everything was stable. It caused all kinds of mysterious problems.

We are still on chlorine here. I have been using RO for about four years. Lately I have started leaving some tap water setting out for a day or two, PHing it and watering with it for the trace minerals.

I never know
canyon
 
Doc Bud said:
The tap water might not be an issue....then again, it could be. Depends on the total alkalinity.


The issue here is Molasses. Way too high in K. Totally screws up the biota. It's a great, big NO!

Please don't use it again. Please?:high-five::green_heart::amen:
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Well Doc, you asked so nicely. :battingeyelashes: :Love:

In researching my post on defense of my practice I discovered that a pinch of soil would accomplish the same thing, in less time.

I will, indeed, change my practice. Would you review my water report please, and see if you'd have any issues with this?

 
Canyon said:
Well,
it may be time to tone things down a bit and expand the discussion.

I was caught off guard when Sue added the molasses, mostly because she said it would neutralize the chloramines. That was the first time I have heard of using molasses for this.

So if it does neutralize chloramines, does it have an effect on chlorine? Chloramines were added to water treatment after 911 because it stayed in water longer than chlorine. Just leaving it in an open container, it takes something like 30 days to dissipate as I understand it.

What is happening to neutralize the chlorine? Is it the potassium?

Is it the carbohydrates or the potassium that is going to unbalance the soil mix?

Looking back, I believe you have been adding some molasses to all of your water. Adding some all the time could throw your soil balance off and could explain the clawing leaves you are getting. The constant addition of extra calcium could be playing a part.

I blew a RO membrane and was not checking TDS or PH because I thought everything was stable. It caused all kinds of mysterious problems.

We are still on chlorine here. I have been using RO for about four years. Lately I have started leaving some tap water setting out for a day or two, PHing it and watering with it for the trace minerals.

I never know
canyon
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I never thought about it like this Canyon. Something in here resonated. Why would it make a difference in the kit soil and not the same kind of difference in the LOS?
 
It's never boring in this room is it? :laughtwo:
 
"You asked for a little rain?"

:laughtwo: Here's one you won't see in a tent every day.

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I'd forgotten to turn the small fan back on. Lol!

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I now know I have broader parameters than I expected, and I would be well advised to learn to utilize the alarm function on this phone attached to my every move.

 
I considered the molasses, too, when I was trying to figure out the clawing, but .... a couple small drops? :hmmmm: Doesn't seem significant.
 
SweetSue said:
Well Doc, you asked so nicely. :battingeyelashes: :Love:

In researching my post on defense of my practice I discovered that a pinch of soil would accomplish the same thing, in less time.

I will, indeed, change my practice. Would you review my water report please, and see if you'd have any issues with this?

Click to expand...

I looked at the report and didn't see any mention of total alkalinity. Ideally, TA should be about 60. 120 is too high.

TA of 120 will work fine for a run or two....then bicarbonates will build up and things won't work right. TA of 60 is more beneficial to the plants than RO. TA of 120 is harmful compared to RO.

I use RO because our water isn't even drinkable half the time. If I had really good tap water, I'd use it.

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the microbes in the kit are born and "trained" to eat rocks. Like most other one-celled creatures....they're total crackheads and if given the chance to dine on simple sugars (molasses) they'll gladly give up their healthy diets of calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, calcium sulfate, etc. and hit the crack pipe. (sugar)

Minerals, Microbes and Magic. 3 "M's". No mollasses. No 4th "M". Just 3. It works.

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Thank you Doc, and so deliciously illustrated. :laughtwo: I was admiring similar shots while researching the soil mix yesterday and thinking how sweet it'll be to get it all dialed in like that.

Do you believe it's possible that the continuious use of BSM in the water would somehow contribute to the curling leaves? Canyon raised some interesting points.
 
I was trying to understand what could ramp up nitrogen availability in your soil, and I considered increased microbial activity from the molasses sugars, but there really isn't that much sugar in molasses, especially in just a couple drops. The recommended dose for increasing soil activity is in the 1/4+ cup per gallon of water range. And again, not many minerals in a couple drops, so it's hard to believe that could skew the mineral balance of the soil.

And the symptoms don't look like excess calcium, as you would expect from high TDS water. I never got clawing as my soil got corrupted by 400+ ppm water. :cheesygrinsmiley: Mine showed the opposite - pale spotted leaves.

But ... perhaps there's enough sugar in the molasses to screw with the biota. They might be too active for this soil, producing too much nitrogen, independent of our feeding schedule, or what the plant is asking for. The only sugars in the soil should come from exudates, or from microbial activity.

But still ... a couple drops? :hmmmm:
 
Graytail said:
I was trying to understand what could ramp up nitrogen availability in your soil, and I considered increased microbial activity from the molasses sugars, but there really isn't that much sugar in molasses, especially in just a couple drops. The recommended dose for increasing soil activity is in the 1/4+ cup per gallon of water range. And again, not many minerals in a couple drops, so it's hard to believe that could skew the mineral balance of the soil.

And the symptoms don't look like excess calcium, as you would expect from high TDS water. I never got clawing as my soil got corrupted by 400+ ppm water. :cheesygrinsmiley: Mine showed the opposite - pale spotted leaves.

But ... perhaps there's enough sugar in the molasses to screw with the biota. They might be too active for this soil, producing too much nitrogen, independent of our feeding schedule, or what the plant is asking for. The only sugars in the soil should come from exudates, or from microbial activity.

But still ... a couple drops? :hmmmm:
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I love it when you speak up and I gain a little more insight. Thank you Graytail. :kisstwo:

Like you, I have a hard time believing those two drops per gallon would make that much difference. In my garden this is a moot point, but that doesn't mean I want us to stop discussing it. If anyone else has any thoughts, please don't hesitate to contribute.
 
Hey SweetSue, such a following! I think I can recall many of your posts from a few years ago. Happily here to tag along and learn, if you don't mind sending good vibes your way. It could be sometime before I chime in again over here though... I have roughly 700 more pages to catch up on haha. I'll be back after some reading...
 
SweetSue said:
Thank you Doc, and so deliciously illustrated. :laughtwo: I was admiring similar shots while researching the soil mix yesterday and thinking how sweet it'll be to get it all dialed in like that.

Do you believe it's possible that the continuious use of BSM in the water would somehow contribute to the curling leaves? Canyon raised some interesting points.
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continued use of BSM will totally ruin the biota. You'll have a poor grow. Don't use anymore.

We're all about minerals, not sugar. Plants make sugars (root exudates) and these sugars are targeted to certain microbes, literally programing them to go out and fetch exactly what the plant needs.

If you bypass root exudates by introducing BSM, you'll attenuate the communication between the plant and the soil.....basically working against the very thing you're trying to accomplish.

We want hyperactive biology, a mineralized soil, and a plant that is supercharged via foliar feeding. The foliars will created exudates, which will feed the soil and motivate the biota to feed the plant. Win/win.

Molasses puts them on a bender. They don't show up for work.

Please don't use it!
 
FuzzyGreen said:
Hey SweetSue, such a following! I think I can recall many of your posts from a few years ago. Happily here to tag along and learn, if you don't mind sending good vibes your way. It could be sometime before I chime in again over here though... I have roughly 700 more pages to catch up on haha. I'll be back after some reading...
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Hey! Happy Holidays FuzzyGreen! :hugs: :Love: You know it's not expected that you read all that to join us in the here and now, right? Good to see you around again.
 
Doc Bud said:
continued use of BSM will totally ruin the biota. You'll have a poor grow. Don't use anymore.

We're all about minerals, not sugar. Plants make sugars (root exudates) and these sugars are targeted to certain microbes, literally programing them to go out and fetch exactly what the plant needs.

If you bypass root exudates by introducing BSM, you'll attenuate the communication between the plant and the soil.....basically working against the very thing you're trying to accomplish.

We want hyperactive biology, a mineralized soil, and a plant that is supercharged via foliar feeding. The foliars will created exudates, which will feed the soil and motivate the biota to feed the plant. Win/win.

Molasses puts them on a bender. They don't show up for work.

Please don't use it!
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Wow! I read that and completely understood it. Thank you for patiently explaining it once again. :hugs:

"You'll have a poor grow." Well, the evidence is before us, isn't it?

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Staggering into the harvest wasn't what we had in mind when we started this affiliation. The new batch was wet with water using the BSM. I have a much better understanding of the BSM as well, stemming from this discussion, so I'm not concerned about six tiny drops of molasses. From this point on I'll neutralize another way.

Graytail, all those conversations when you patiently explored all of this with me..... thank you as well. :hugs:
 
OK, i was too harsh.....:hugs:
 
Just the few pages deep that I've read so far had a pile of information, and I make notes!

If I skimmed by things people took the time to research, think about, and then type out I wouldn't have a chance to grow .

Coming into a forum post this large has always felt like looking at a figurative pile of rocks, any other day that pile may not stand out, feel like a daunting task to move, but if you never dig into it how will you know where the diamonds are?

I feel I'm doing my due diligence reading through things.

Now I chose an interesting time to chime in, I too have used molasses to water. Only on cannabis a handful of times, but with another grow. Chili peppers, now they're far from cannabis but generating the most capsaicin is similar to the desire for more trichomes and a better terpene content. Docbud chimed in on the K content of molasses and I agree, where it helped my peppers it may not aid cannabis. The only time I've used molasses heavily is in the last couple flushes before a harvest... I thought it aided smell and flavor of the smoke but didn't heavily research the effects it had AGAINST the plant. My soil is generally returned to my compost pile for a year before getting used again... so I'm sure there is never residual in those bi-years...
 
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