The Mountain: Grow Support From The Over 50 Club

I my inbred my line of Merry Go Round for 8 years and even then I had to stay focused on physical uniformity. I was able to pretty much stabilize flowering onset at the first week of July. Plant uniformity was getting there but I still had an occasional throwback to it's Jamaican Lambsbread parent with sativa type leaves. Although even these plants with seven and more leaflets per leaf still pretty much uniformly began flowering the first of July. Flavor and potency were pretty much the same. Plant height and frame was still an issue with short squat Indica growth habit still showing up in about 10 to 20 percent of the population in any given year. My goal was a Christmas tree shape plant
maxing out around 5 feet with the indica frame nice and stocky to support the weight of the harvest. The original lambsbread parent was wonderfully resistant to mold and tolerant of insects but would sag heavily when close to harvest. But the biggest problem I had with her was getting her to flower early enough to complete before frost. That is why I began the crossing. She had the most upbeat happy buzz to her. You just wanted to go back and smoke her through the day. The affy I bred to came off of a ship in Chicago from a guy who use to get me big black pickles of hash. Short stocky heavy and skunky. I bred it to an old variety that had been grown for years in Western Kentucky that was sativa dominant with a distinct Piney smell but that flowered early enough to produce arm size colas by the first of October. It was a very uniform inbred line where growers would just pick out one male plant from a patch and transplant it into a bucket and take it around to spend a few days next to the chosen females. They had been doing that for ten years when I met them! I used that Kentucky Afghani cross to breed with the Lambsbread which is how Merry go Round came into being. My big mistake was losing focus and allowing myself to become enticed by the prospect of producing female seed and I bred a hermied plant into my line. That's when my nightmare began and after 3 more years I gradually lost the line. But...that's how we learn.
I am a huge fan of Ace seeds and have their Yunnan seeds to incorporate in my new attempt. I would love to get true Lambsbread seeds from Jamaica again if I could ever really find them. Not a great yielder but a tremendous upbeat buzz. I have read about DanceHall,) or something like that) which sounds like the same buzz but I may look to South American sativas to try to find that profile. I sound like some kind of mad scientist I know. But in reality it is all a crap shoot because of the limited populations that we are faced with. In a Hybrid corn breeding trial they get to work with populations in the tens of thousands....not ten plants! Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Yeah man I absolutely side with that limited population really puts a cap on out efforts and we crap shoot all the time unfortunately. If our crop was legit like tomato or peach or grapes that would help us enormously in getting more IBLs and stabilized strains. I actually got one from my friend grower a heavy OG Kushed indica plant and the only difference between phenos was purpling, otherwise the structure, the height, the high produced, and yield was all the same.

I've just smoked some of my Mexican bud and I love how stronger it got, two tokes and wow :bigtoke: But I really appreciate landrace sativas for how light on the body they are and how much they elevate your mood and feeling of happy/together. It's really like Champagne of cannabis in my opinion. My Colombian Punto Rojo however is stronger and kicking after 5-10 minutes, and then if you get the right dose very trippy and disorientating. I forgot every two steps I was doing where I was going and what for... and I only circled around my room :hippy: Actually it was a mixture of bud and hash I smoked. Nothing fancy in smell or taste department though. Smells like strong incense, but tastes like leftover muffin with slightly acrid and bitter notes also very woodsy. Still, genetics that even smoking-all-day-round stoners appreciate :tokin:

On the other hand it must've been cool to get strains like Lambsbread back in the day just from going through the bud :laughtwo: I heard that Jamaican sativas were pretty much like African, very speedy and stimulating. My Malawi was like that. Anyway, another question, you were getting Afghan black in the 70s-80s, right? Us too even later. So how come you were getting those Affy seeds when getting no bud? :tokin:
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey J Wash! I just friended you back. I use a small exacto knife and a toothpick to help the membrane off of young sprouts. There are plenty of other methods. The seeds have problems with this because we tend to use a lighter weight growing medium than the soil that they would encounter in nature. I often have to do the same thing with the thousands of tomatoe seedlings that I germinate each year. One of the other main issues is the stages of growth the plant is in when nutrient applications are made. Often time the timing is just as important as the application itself. So if you have a plant that is lagging behind, but , we make applications of nutrients at the same time. This is often the case and it can make the leader jump even farther ahead. Even if we are giving both of them the exact same nutrients in both volume and concentration. Most of the time folks give the runt even just a little extra trying to make up for the size difference by applying extra love!

There are some of the best growers on this site and I can promise you that 95% are willing to give folks the best possible advice to make you successful in whatever crop you grow. Best of luck in all you grow! If you need me I'll be just uptheholler!
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I like the exacto and toothpick technique! I'll try that next time.
 
That's how you create an IBL, from F5 upwards really.

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conradino23 said:
That's how you create an IBL, from F5 upwards really.

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Hey Conradino! This would be correct from a text book stand point but this is also where the human factor comes in. And it all goes back to my point of maintaining focus on the traits that you are trying to stabilize. I literally have a library full of breeding history and biology/botany books from my Father's and my library. But again It comes down ultimately to which one of those parents is selected and what are the ultimate goals in your breeding program. I have been interested in the history hybrid corn for years and the trials and tribulation guys like Funk went through is amazing.

Back in the 70's I went through a lot of Santa Marta gold bricks. I used to curse about the seeds...now I wish I had some of them. That and various strains of Gold Mex. Most of which were of course claimed to be from Acapulco. I started my Mexican journey with Michoacán and weed Oxacan ( My spell check says that I can't spell that ) Both were very stemmy seedy giggle weed. I had the hook up in Southern Illinois
from a couple of old men who would take off from their farm in their private plane and fly to Texas and plat golf for a few days then fly back and pull it in their barn. Then some how they got the Columbian hook up. Santa Golds and Reds.
But I still had problems getting early enough flowering. The Afghani deal came from a hash guy who was a friend of a friend kind of deal who worked on the frieghters plying the Great lakes and Canada. It was always black hash. Canada was short on weed and long on Hash. We were the opposite. I went up a couple of times a year and made trades. After a couple of years of trying I was able through him to get me a little cheese cloth bag of watermelon sized indica seeds tied up in a little bundle. Then I was off and rolling. Big dark buds with pumpkin orange hairs lots of resin and a skunky funk. Short stocky and finished down there in about mid to late September! Man was I excited. At the same time I had some friends who had a band. They got a gig in Jamaica playing in a bar at a resort. When they got down there the resort put them up in a small house on the beach. When they got there they found snorkels, masks and flippers and spearfishing equipment. Oh yeah they also found about a half pound of different Jamaican weed. They like my smoke back in Southern Illinois so they stuck a bunch of seeds in a pair of woven locally made flip flops and wore them back to me. I germinated them and was able to grow out the earliest flowering plants. I didn't know what I had until Lambsbread was a picture in an issue of High Times! That's when my friends said...'That's the weed we brought you back seeds from!" Isn't it weird how things kind of come together? There have been times that I kind of flip out about some of the crap I have done and the way God has blessed me throughout my life in ALL ways. But weed and the way that I could apply my knowledge while I was in college kind of made all of my classes come alive for me. My years of living in the country...FFA....4H....Hunting....Fishing....Trapping....growing vegetables and fruits since I was little........working with my Dad who was a highly respected research scientist and Botanist/ Chemist ......coupled with my love of weed sort of made me a natural for this kind of work.
I see a lot of folks who grow weed who think that they are Master cultivators.. I kind of feel sorry for them... I have never Mastered anything with cultivation of any crop. I learn and grow every year and I hope that I do until I am dead! Best of luck in all you grow Conradino! I sincerely always enjoy reading and learning from your posts. Please excuse this one for being so windy but you kind of got me off on memory lane there. I could delete this post but I hope that you enjoy my reminiscing!
 
J Washington said:
First time I have seen such dramatic differences. Many others have told me the same thing as you, thanks! What is IBL?
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Hey J Wash! IBL is short for Inbred Line. It is basically back crossing a line until you stabilize most of the physical characteristics. It is a challenge on the part of breeders to do this because of the need to remain focused in what ever your breeding goals are. With weed it is too easy to get side tracked when you run into a unique Phenotype. I almost typed exceptional phenotype in there instead of "UNIQUE". But often when seed companies see something different they get excited and get side tracked in their efforts chasing something unique meaning different but not necessarily better. Look...dog breeders have been doing the same thing for years now......but we should be happy with a world full of Shitzdoodle Golden Sheperds just because they thought it would look neat. The same goes for weed. Right now I'm kind of with Conradino and I am working with as many landrace, or heirloom varieties if you will as I can. That does not mean that many of the crosses that are out there are not spectacular. They are!!! Potent , stinky with ton's of bag appeal. But seed companies should not promise you that the seeds that you are buying from them will trun out like the photo or finish in exactly X number of days.It is nice that many are starting to be more up front about what they are selling by describing the most common phenotypes, giving you a range of both finishing times and THC/CBD levels. With the prices that these seeds command they owe the consumer that. Best of luck in all you grow!
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey J Wash! IBL is short for Inbred Line. It is basically back crossing a line until you stabilize most of the physical characteristics. It is a challenge on the part of breeders to do this because of the need to remain focused in what ever your breeding goals are. With weed it is too easy to get side tracked when you run into a unique Phenotype. I almost typed exceptional phenotype in there instead of "UNIQUE". But often when seed companies see something different they get excited and get side tracked in their efforts chasing something unique meaning different but not necessarily better. Look...dog breeders have been doing the same thing for years now......but we should be happy with a world full of Shitzdoodle Golden Sheperds just because they thought it would look neat. The same goes for weed. Right now I'm kind of with Conradino and I am working with as many landrace, or heirloom varieties if you will as I can. That does not mean that many of the crosses that are out there are not spectacular. They are!!! Potent , stinky with ton's of bag appeal. But seed companies should not promise you that the seeds that you are buying from them will trun out like the photo or finish in exactly X number of days.It is nice that many are starting to be more up front about what they are selling by describing the most common phenotypes, giving you a range of both finishing times and THC/CBD levels. With the prices that these seeds command they owe the consumer that. Best of luck in all you grow!
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Strain description and phenotype listing is one of the reasons I went with Dynastygenetics this last grow. And their huckleberry Kush has been amazing for me this grow. All keepers and each of three plants is a perfect depiction of one of the three possible phenos. They have Oregon Huckleberry IBL and I have been really interested in picking that up after my experience with the huckleberry Kush hybrid.

Having a good strain description with a lot of info let's me know that a line is just not some hybrid cross that has been pumped out quickly. For example the huckleberry Kush I received is the third iteration of that hybrid.

I am making seeds soon but I have no inclination to call that breeding. If I wanted to be a breeder I would want the ability to sort through hundreds of plants. Kudos to you uptheholler for having that patience.
 
Hey Shiggity! It's strictly a serious hobby! Believe it or not when I started way back when, it was just to keep my friends in stock. Heck the first year or so that I grew , I didn't even smoke. I was just the farm kid that had been growing a garden and selling produce since I was 10.
Now when I got to Purdue and then SIU I really got serious. I even gave a presentation in one of my horticulture labs entitled " Growing Marijuana For Fun and Profit " It was a precise instruction on the almost unheard of method of growing Sinse.! ( By the way I got an A) Up till that time almost everyone that I knew just put them out and let them grow. Kind of like Neil Young singing Home Grown they" just planted them hills and let it rain!" When I first started selling it we had to tell folks in Chi that it was Hawaiian because they wouldn't spend 100 bucks on an ounce of "homegrown". That is the time that my breeding adventures began. Unfortunately I lost what I had worked for because I lost focus.
I guess that's why I harp so much about setting goals in any growing project then staying the course...you may not succeed....but ...you will absolutely learn! Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Hey Marsh! Are we speaking of soiless mediums such as coco or are we talking hydroponic type culture? I normally tell folks that in hydro systems a pH of 5.7 to 6.3 is a pretty good range. There are varying opinions on this but you really won't see ay symptoms of nutrient lock out until readings get pretty outside of this range. In most other mediums I tell folks they can run between 6.2 to 6.8 . Actually the effect of pH on a plant is also determined somewhat by the plant itself. By this I mean how quickly is the plant growing and consuming nutrients at the time the pH is taken. Remember any pH reading is a "Snapshot" of the immediate growing conditions at the time that the pH reading is taken. Often times folks have a tendency to over react to these snapshot readings. I advise that no radical steps to correct pH is taken until a couple of readings show that corrective steps are necessary. My own personal belief is that wild swings in pH caused by growers reacting to one reading can cause the plant more harm than good. Plants are highly adaptable to growing conditions that they experience...Mother Nature is a wonderful care taker. If you notice that your pH levels are heading out of these ranges you need to do two or three readings 12 to 24 hours apart. Then judge from the plants appearance what you think is going on. It becomes kind of a feel thing after a while. If the pH is judged over that time period to be too high or too low then you can take appropriate steps based upon an informed decision not just a knee jerk reaction to a number on a meter or strip. Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Hiya Uptheholler . I really enjoyed the "snapshot " analogy wrt to ph . I am running 10l and 20l coco hempys at the moment . (with the 2inch perlite res ) and am using 5.7 - 6.2 ph as you recommend . I do have constant Mg issues but this is due , in part , to my 220ppm well water. Bi weekly flushing seems to help . Thanks again for this thread as I am far from done picking your brain:-)
 
Hey Marsh! I too use well and spring water. I also sometimes utilize rain water. You probably already know that Epsom salts is a very cheap very available source for magnesium. The best part about it is that it is a very forgiving source also. Coco is a great medium when it comes to avoiding over watering or root disease issues.If I can be of assistance in the future, please don't hesitate to let me know! Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Hiya UTH. I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you have a passing interest in South African genetics . Now i happen to be in said country . As you can imagine one tires of ones own land race genetics over decades of use ! Just to paint a small picture for you ; a kg of decent Swazi wholesales for around $180. Our exchange rate is 16/1 ($ to Rand ) Wholesale indoor prices are from $3750 per/kg to $6250 . Add 100% markups for street prices . Low to midrange quality weed is huge business in SA , and although illegal, is the way many feed themselves . We have many initiatives trying for legalisation if only for medical use . At this point it seems legalisation is unlikely because of the "weed is a gateway drug " theory . This may actually be a valid point here in SA , weed on its own is not good enough for many , it needs to be smoked with crushed Mandrax ( 'ludes) . Or failing that crushed Hiv meds ! ( gets one wasted i believe ) . Anyway this is a side of SA you wont find on Trip Advisor Lol . Have a great day , Marsh.
 
Hey Marsh! Actually my interest in African landrace genetics comes from my interest in new world weed varieties that today are considered landrace species. I believe that a lot of the varieties that we old school growers used to talk about may indeed have their true origins from Africa and Asia. It is my belief that many Jamaican varieties may have their origins in Africa. Early slavers not only brought their human cargo they also brought food crops to keep their charges alive. I understand that this sounds harsh to the twenty first century ear but it is a reality none the less. Since weed was a bonus crop for sailors in that it could be used as a medical supplement to treat the illnesses of slaves and was probably a curative that they were familiar with. But also the sailing ship of the age used miles upon miles of sturdy roping to make those babies float and navigate. Rope was used as caulking between the boards on the hull of the ship and miles of it was used in riggings. Rope walks were important profitable business ventures and an absolute necessity. That maybe true for a lot of indigenous Carribean and Central American varieties as well. There is also recent documentation that leads me to believe that Chinese sea farers were making landings and contacts with indigenous people on the western coasts of South America and the western coasts of North America. These trips were made up to two centuries before Europeans arrived. The purpose of these Chinese trips were to collect new agricultural products, trade and exchange established Chinese crops around the world. How else could the Chinese have potatoes and corn by the time Marco Polo arrived to make his well celebrated visit. My feelings are that marijuana was a well known product of Chinese and African pharmacopeia and would be logical items to take for trade and barter. Now could the sativa varieties that we now accept as indigenous to South America be related.. all be it distantly... to Asian sativas? I don't know. Could African landrace varieties be the precursor to Jamaican varieties or Guatemalan varieties? I don't know. But...........now you know what old Holler thinks about as he is laying awake at night staring up at the sky and pondering the world!! I am one boring guy huh? Best of luck in all you grow my friend and all of my best from the Appalachians here in the good old U.S.A.!
 
Spent the last few days reading this whole thread...the last 5 hours straight. I feel like I know some of you already.
UTH 1 and 2 (Neil is my fave!)
Auggie
yoops
conrad
M&m..and m
and on and on...
Thanks for all of the insight and knowledge...learned alot in the last few days. By the way I qualify in the over 50 part but being as this is my first REAL grow I will probably offer little insight. (My first grow was in my RV closet under 4 13w cfls. After my "buddy" forgot to water them while I was in Sturgis for 10 days only one very stressed lady made it and I got about 7g.) I've always wanted to supply myself with this wonderful weed(I used to make my own shine when I used to drink) and anyway how in the hell does somebody my age and living in the sticks find some to buy??? So here I am, you are stuck with me, if I qualify. I think it was Grouch Marx that said something like"I would be very suspect of any organization that would have me as a member!"
 
Hey Pizzaguy! Welcome to the mountain! My gut tells me that you will be teaching us more, as you learn yourself. We all went through the same learning curve. We all took different paths through the woods but we all ended up in the same patch of weed. If there is anything that any of us can do to help you out just let us know.

This also gives me an opportunity to dispel what I believe is a misconception about The Mountain. You don't have to be over 50 to help out others around here. While the Moderators lended us old folks a hand by giving us this thread to help folks out, I don't believe that age alone makes a person a talented grower. You know just like on my farm many hands makes light work! There are a ton of very knowledgable younger folks on this site that are talented growers through their own experiences. And that's the parameter that I personally use for advice on this thread...experience. Heck by the time I was 21 I had 4 years successful outdoor growing and had already grown inside under metal halides with CO2. So I had already gotten a pretty good jump on this growing thing and I was just a pup! What I am quick to disregard is advice that comes straight off of the interweb with no true life chance to work with it. Now....... that's not to say that there aren't great ideas out there on the web that I haven't tried. I just mean that I won't suggest it unless I personally have been involved with trying it out myself or with my friends. Soooooo..... I want to personally extend a request for help here on The Mountain from all of the wonderful talented growers in this community who have real world experience and a strong desire to help all folks.....with all levels of experience and.... all budget levels...to grow the best weed they possibly can and help them take control of their personal medicines or recreational buzz time!
Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Afternoon all!! After a long afternoon and evening on the Mountain yesterday thought I would check back in to see what's up. Thanks Holler for your kind response...knew I could count on you!
Sitting down finally after a semi-busy day I caught a buzz(again:Hookah:)or should I say still...anyway I came up with a great spinoff to 420mag.com......420only.com!!!! You know...like farm**sonly.com but for 420er's!!! Single ones only..we don't want no ashley madison stuff on here...I can hear it now..."You don't have to do one hits at 420only dot com!" OK I'm done...don't forget to tip your waiter and try the veal! I'll be here all week!!!
 
Hello everyone I'm here seeking guidance today, for someone to past down their wisdom to a newbie grower, this is my second time growing cannabis, it's something I fell in love with doing, I love growing and taken in information from knowledgeable grower that have lots of experience. today I am looking for answers and hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I have a plant that is growing somewhat odd. its the only one out of the bunch that has this problem, the strain is afghani it's about 4 weeks into veg and the leaves are growing downward like a taco shape I was thinking maybe it's a humidity issue but I have no way to tell right now waiting on a new thermostat, but if it was humidity wouldn't you think the others would show the same signs?? it's seems to be getting worser and now I'm kinda worried. if someone could please shine some light on this issue it would be greatly appreciated.thankyou and feel free to head over to my 2016 journal for more in depth details :)
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