The Mountain: Grow Support From The Over 50 Club

Hi UptheHoller, as with any electrical product you have to weigh up cost of purchase & ease of repair and/or replacement. Email each company after Christmas when they have time to be polite.

Both companies provide the correct light to grow top quality medicine and there is a definite quality difference between HPS and LEDs, but I am not sure about the benefit of having UV at the same height as LED lamps. Side lighting with CFLs also provides UV, but also some frequencies of light that LEDs may be missing.

I only have Mars lights, which are great. The plants love their light and I don't really notice any difference in trichome production with or without my UV reptile lamp.

I think growers get better each time, more in tune with what they are doing and get better results that they attribute to something other than the synergy of learning, genetic luck and environment maintenance.

:goodluck: with your purchase and remember that Plants under LED need a room temperature of around 85 F for maximum effective transpiration.

And Merry :xmas:
 
Hey Richard thatnks for jumping in here. I start my 40th year of growing my favorite plant this year. Since starting in 1976 I have grown in cornfields and woodlots. I grew my first indoor crop in 1978 in a 3 car garage under 12 MH lights in bushel baskets. I've grown in greenhouses. I've grown in rock wool. Ive grown wick watered plants in kiddy wading pools. Ive grown on straw bales both plastic wrapped and naked. Ive grown drip irrigated. Ive grown in pots placed way up in trees and balance way out on cliffs Ive grown early and late plants in all kinds of weather conditions. I've grown in creek beds , swamps and on islands. But this whole LED thing is a brand new adventure for me. But I guess it's the newness of the jump as well as the expense that has me over thinking this thing. What I have come up with is that with the lessened canopy coverage per light I need to use a light rail. No big deal there I have used them before. With the lower ambient heat output I may have to supplement there. But I believe that I have decided to go with the LED panel over the COB. Now I just hav eto decide which Sponsors product I will use. I will still be running some MH/HPS in part of the room heck it's coming out around 240 sq ft. So I have room to play. Thanks again for your thoughts and I wish everyone here the Merriest of Christmases! Best of luck in all you grow in the New Year!
 
This is why The Mountain is such a valuable resource :thanks:

uptheholler2 said:
Hey Richard thanks for jumping in here. I start my 40th year of growing my favorite plant this year. Since starting in 1976 I have grown in cornfields and woodlots. I grew my first indoor crop in 1978 in a 3 car garage under 12 MH lights in bushel baskets. I've grown in greenhouses. I've grown in rock wool. Ive grown wick watered plants in kiddy wading pools. Ive grown on straw bales both plastic wrapped and naked. Ive grown drip irrigated. Ive grown in pots placed way up in trees and balance way out on cliffs Ive grown early and late plants in all kinds of weather conditions. I've grown in creek beds , swamps and on islands.
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:thankyou:

uptheholler said:
...People from all over the site can come here, to the Mountain, to have their growing questions answered for real, by the oldest and most experienced growing folks on 420 Magazine!

If I had a growing problem with any of the crops on my farm, I asked my Dad and Grandpa and that is precisely how I view our contributions to this site.
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uptheholler2 said:
Well as much as it pained me to go with a light from a non 420 mag sponsor... I just bought a Truth 1600 LED. I compared stats with other lights and got a decent price with free shipping so I bit the bullet and laid down the cash. I will let you all know how it goes. Best of luck in all you grow!
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They are selling locally around 1500us. Too steep right now. Unless they reeeeeeeally preform. Hope you like it.
 
Luke it's like we are married to the same woman!! I had to agree to get rid of some of my other stuff to swing this! And the biggest selling point is that it is all going into one barn versus the 3 at the old place. I'm not giving up on my tried and true HPS/MH set up...but..... I have been looking at grows like yours and others on here and then went and visited my friend's GDP grow and I was dang impressed. And he is still learning. But the resin and colors he has achieved ( Granted it was an autumn barn grow) was really impressive. I wouldn't have anything to compare it too except for the fact that I have seen his GDP bags and enjoyed his smoke for 10 or so years. He has kept cloning the same line for that long. This was by far the best color/bag appeal that I have seen from him. I don't think that he had any gains in harvest totals. He has always run hillbilly homemade PVC hydro tubes with hydroton pebbles and baskets but the smell and resin and color all seemed to be enhanced. He is switching to all Advanced LED's and dropping down HPS tubes during flowering. So he is definitely sold. He kind of made me feel like I was the Barney Rubble of the weed world with mastodons in my room holding burning torches in their trunks over my plants! So I picked up my truck around my waist and ran home to start trying to convince the Bride of Holler! I'm sure it's going to take me a while with the learning curve. So I maybe asking more questions here on the Mountain than answering them! But I know I've got good friends on here to help me out. The Truth 1600 LED's do seem to get good reviews and I landed it for 1080. So I can only be so stupid!
 
Wasup, new here. First time grower. So I have a wide thriving beauty bushy female, and a not so bushy skinnier female. One started slower and stunted from birth. Using 250 w bulbs and they are in flowering mode now. Tips, suggestions, anything? Just a listening ear. Thanks
 
Hey Lotsofbodyart! Let me ask you a couple of questions and maybe I can give you a few insights into the differences that you are seeing.

-First I assume that we are talking about seed grown plants and not clones from the same mother. That being the case I am also going to assume that they came from the same variety. Is that correct?

-If they are both seed grown, were the seeds about the same size and were the seedlings about the same size starting out?

-Are they soil grown or hydroponically grown? If they are soil grown are they in the same size container and in the same medium?

- If they are soil grown have they been fed the same amount of nutrient solution at the same times? Often times the stage that a plant is fed and even the soil moisture content when it is fed can effect it's ability to take in and utilize the nutrients.

- Are both plants getting about the same amount of light? In a grow using a relatively low amount of available light it is quite common for one plant to become the light hog and the other one has to play second fiddle! This is even common in outdorr grows if plants are place relatively close together.

If you can help me out with some more info I think that we can get some answers to you. Lastly I really want to commend you on being both observant and inquisitive about what you are seeing. As you grow you will learn to notice both major and very slight changes in your plants. As you gain experience and confidence you will begin to be able almost to grow by a feel for what your plants are telling you. If you are enjoying this hobby there are some of the nicest....most helpful growers on this website. They have a wealth of information and experience to give you a hand.
Never hesitate to ask whatever questions that you may have. Best of luck in all you grow!
 
Definitely. Everything was started and added at the same time. Both same strain. White widow. Seeds were feminized. Same growing medium same light same everything really. And the growth difference began very early. They probably started differentiating themselves about 2 weeks into veg. Yes I'm growing in soil. I'm thinking maybe it was just the seed genetics because her sister plant is thriving even better than Imagined.
 
Hey Lotsofbodyart! If everything is the same , I'd say you probably are correct at least partially. Weed genetics and selection, while greatly improved over the years, still has not been focused enough to achieve a truly Hybrid line. A true breeding hybrid smooths out a lot of the size differences that you could see. That's why when you drive by a cornfield the plants are usually all exactly alike. I know...it must be boring to be a corn plant!

But that's not likely all that you are seeing. A lot of folks don't realize the importance of the cotyledons in a plants early growth. Not to go all Mr. Science on you, but the cotyledons are those 2 little fat leaves that first pop out of the seeds. In fact they are also commonly called the seed leaves. They eventually dry up and drop off , but in their short span of work they are exceptionally important to how large and robust a seedling becomes. They are the first part of the plant that fires up the Photosythesis factory and gets the ball rolling. So for a short time period they are in fact supplying the energy that is used by the hypocotyl ( the young shoot) and taproot to get their act together. If one seed had a membrane that didn't come off of the cotyledons ...that can slow down growth enough to cause the size difference. If there is a slight temperature difference at soil level that can slow down it's ability to start photosynthesis and that can cause size difference. Sometimes I think a plant can just be a heavy sleeper if you will...it just isn't quite as robust coming out of the gate. That combined with the fact that it didn't know that life is a competition can cause it to play second fiddle to surrounding plants.

Again I encourage you to keep being observant and ask questions. Above all have FUN watching plants grow...weed ...trees..grass...flowers. It's truly one of God's miracles and has taught me so much about life in general over the years. Best of luck in all you grow!
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey Lotsofbodyart! If everything is the same , I'd say you probably are correct at least partially. Weed genetics and selection, while greatly improved over the years, still has not been focused enough to achieve a truly Hybrid line. A true breeding hybrid smooths out a lot of the size differences that you could see. That's why when you drive by a cornfield the plants are usually all exactly alike. I know...it must be boring to be a corn plant!

But that's not likely all that you are seeing. A lot of folks don't realize the importance of the cotyledons in a plants early growth. Not to go all Mr. Science on you, but the cotyledons are those 2 little fat leaves that first pop out of the seeds. In fact they are also commonly called the seed leaves. They eventually dry up and drop off , but in their short span of work they are exceptionally important to how large and robust a seedling becomes. They are the first part of the plant that fires up the Photosythesis factory and gets the ball rolling. So for a short time period they are in fact supplying the energy that is used by the hypocotyl ( the young shoot) and taproot to get their act together. If one seed had a membrane that didn't come off of the cotyledons ...that can slow down growth enough to cause the size difference. If there is a slight temperature difference at soil level that can slow down it's ability to start photosynthesis and that can cause size difference. Sometimes I think a plant can just be a heavy sleeper if you will...it just isn't quite as robust coming out of the gate. That combined with the fact that it didn't know that life is a competition can cause it to play second fiddle to surrounding plants.

Again I encourage you to keep being observant and ask questions. Above all have FUN watching plants grow...weed ...trees..grass...flowers. It's truly one of God's miracles and has taught me so much about life in general over the years. Best of luck in all you grow!
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Wow Up. Thanks so much for this. I am currently growing 2 white widows that are quite different. One of them was always the "slower student". I have been trying to figure it out, but now that I read this, I recall (vaguely) that she struggled to come out of the seed. I finally helped her along and damaged one of her cotyledons. She was delayed going to veg by 6 days relative to her sister. I must admit that I had no idea what those first leaves were called until reading your post. She turned out to be a very sweet thing, but quite different from her sister. They go to flush in a couple days. I am writing my first journal about this very issue! Thanks so much...
 
Lotsofbodyart said:
Definitely. Everything was started and added at the same time. Both same strain. White widow. Seeds were feminized. Same growing medium same light same everything really. And the growth difference began very early. They probably started differentiating themselves about 2 weeks into veg. Yes I'm growing in soil. I'm thinking maybe it was just the seed genetics because her sister plant is thriving even better than Imagined.
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I am so glad I found this post. I have spent the past 3 months in a quandary. I am growing 2 WWs in DWC and it is like they are from different planets. They look nothing alike. This is a great thread! Thanks

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Hey J Wash! I just friended you back. I use a small exacto knife and a toothpick to help the membrane off of young sprouts. There are plenty of other methods. The seeds have problems with this because we tend to use a lighter weight growing medium than the soil that they would encounter in nature. I often have to do the same thing with the thousands of tomatoe seedlings that I germinate each year. One of the other main issues is the stages of growth the plant is in when nutrient applications are made. Often time the timing is just as important as the application itself. So if you have a plant that is lagging behind, but , we make applications of nutrients at the same time. This is often the case and it can make the leader jump even farther ahead. Even if we are giving both of them the exact same nutrients in both volume and concentration. Most of the time folks give the runt even just a little extra trying to make up for the size difference by applying extra love!

There are some of the best growers on this site and I can promise you that 95% are willing to give folks the best possible advice to make you successful in whatever crop you grow. Best of luck in all you grow! If you need me I'll be just uptheholler!
 
What I see on your pic is a classic example of difference in phenotypical expression. It's quite normal in any seed line that wasn't stabilized as IBL. Nothing to worry about :thumb:
 
Hey Conradino! I have often wondered when we will see a true hybrid line. It just seems to me that there is an obvious lack of focus on the part of breeders. There is just a scramble to constantly come up with new crosses. They give them catchy names and run THC/CBD percentage tests. Then they take a couple of photos of a great plant or resin encrusted bud and put it on the market. I personally see a big benefit to the entire cannabis industry if a truly hybrid line would be focused on. I constantly say that maintaining focus is the toughest part for any breeder. It is soo easy to get side tracked. A truly hybrid line with exact comparable growth habits, disease/pest resistance and active ingredient medicinal values would be of great benefit to concentrate and edible producers. While I realize that flavor, THC/Cbd levels can be some what altered by cultivation techniques at least it would be uniform acrossed the test group.
Are you aware of any true hybrid lines? I know that you are my go to guy when it comes to different landrace sources. A true hybrid line also would be of help in stabilizing subsequent crosses of different varieties.

I guess I'm spoiled from years of growing commercial vegetables and fruits. If a patch of melons or tomatoes are listed as being harvestable at 80 days, they generally are. The patches are uniform in size appearance and fruit ripeness. This has also allowed the development of harvesting equipment that can go through a field and pick processing tomatoes or cucumbers or sweet corn or green beans. But as of yet I am not aware of any hybrid weed lines.
 
Real IBLs are landraces, and some private strains not available commercially usually. What we see offered by seedbanks are F1 seeds that have never been stabilized. And like you say it's ABOUT THE MONEY. That's why I like breeders from Ace Seeds who constantly inbreed their hybrids and landraces, and come up with F3 or even F4 generations when true breeding line starts to happen. I'm going to grow my Ultra Dog F2 this season, and will try to find the right phenos for developing F3 in few years.
 
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