The Joy Of Growing - SweetSue Goes Perpetual

Interesting convo going on here. You guys have got my undivided attention.:nomo:
 
:popcorn:

:passitleft:

Mazar?
 
:passitleft:
hey ... HEY over here!
 
HunterNitro said:
I don't understand what your argument is as i thought plastic pots had this known issue? Ive read it a few times before.

1. Those roots are soil roots not hydro or did i miss something here? You are saying her watering method makes them hydro roots? If you plant in soil or hydro medium the same effect happens. GTJ proved that already with his grow cubes and getting a more solid root mass by up-potting more often.

2. If you grow in a plastic pot the roots will do exactly what sue's has done here if the pot is to big. They will grow to the sides, then down the sides, and accumulate at the bottom of the pot if your pot is to big. If you start with a small plastic pot and work your pot size up every week you will not have this issue as the root ball will be solid. If the pots to big the roots will not spread out just as sue has showed us in the pictures. I have had the exact same issue with planting in to big of a plastic pot to start with and not working to root mass up. Its not just her watering method that has caused this.... If you plant in a big plastic container instead of working your way up, and break down the root mass it will look just like this.

If the plant is grown in a fabric pot the roots air prune just like the pot is designed to do and they wont run straight down the the bottom. I thought this was a known issue with plastic pots thats why most use fabric pots on soil grows now? Like i said this is a good example for when someone wants to do capt'n style because you utilize plastic pots all the way till flower. If you work your pot size up you will have a more solid root mass.

Anyone have any test date or something that we can compare to that proves each theory? Im curious to know because if there is no benefit from building root masses then why do we transplant? I love talks like this! Lets get to the bottom of it! Whatcha got Doc?
Click to expand...

I never said anything about airpruning or fabric pots other than to say that those roots would have looked like that if they were growing out the bottom of the pots into perlite. Hempy roots do that. The morphology of those roots is similar to hydro. They are not the fine root hairs you want to see.

I was pointing the obvious fact that if you a continuously moist medium root development will be poor. If you add to that a tap root and other large roots growing hempy style into a perlite bath....well, there ya go. That's what we're looking at here.

Simple, basic, no nonsense, effective cultivation.
 
HunterNitro said:
I don't understand what your argument is as i thought plastic pots had this known issue? Ive read it a few times before.

1. Those roots are soil roots not hydro or did i miss something here? You are saying her watering method makes them hydro roots? If you plant in soil or hydro medium the same effect happens. GTJ proved that already with his grow cubes and getting a more solid root mass by up-potting more often.

2. If you grow in a plastic pot the roots will do exactly what sue's has done here if the pot is to big. They will grow to the sides, then down the sides, and accumulate at the bottom of the pot if your pot is to big. If you start with a small plastic pot and work your pot size up every week you will not have this issue as the root ball will be solid. If the pots to big the roots will not spread out just as sue has showed us in the pictures. I have had the exact same issue with planting in to big of a plastic pot to start with and not working to root mass up. Its not just her watering method that has caused this.... If you plant in a big plastic container instead of working your way up, and break down the root mass it will look just like this.

If the plant is grown in a fabric pot the roots air prune just like the pot is designed to do and they wont run straight down the the bottom. I thought this was a known issue with plastic pots thats why most use fabric pots on soil grows now? Like i said this is a good example for when someone wants to do capt'n style because you utilize plastic pots all the way till flower. If you work your pot size up you will have a more solid root mass.

Anyone have any test date or something that we can compare to that proves each theory? Im curious to know because if there is no benefit from building root masses then why do we transplant? I love talks like this! Lets get to the bottom of it! Whatcha got Doc?
Click to expand...

I have pictures ... thousand words, etc ... ?

This is a rootball from a 6 gallon plastic pot:

DSCN20325.JPG

DSCN20335.JPG

DSCN20343.JPG
 
Graytail said:
I have pictures ... thousands words, etc ... ?

This is a rootball from a 6 gallon plastic pot:

DSCN20325.JPG

DSCN20343.JPG
Click to expand...

Yep. Lots to learn here and eager to learn it.
 
One more picture. :cheesygrinsmiley: This is a typical rootball with the dirt shaken off - same plastic pots:

DSCN39062.JPG
 
3:20 AM and I'm still awake. Dale has settled into a less fitful sleep and maybe, just maybe I can get myself to use that air mattress calling me from the other side of the room. I'm going to give it a shot.

Good night all. :Love:
 
Graytail said:
I have pictures ... thousand words, etc ... ?

This is a rootball from a 6 gallon plastic pot:

DSCN20325.JPG

DSCN20335.JPG

DSCN20343.JPG
Click to expand...

Yep, we've all got pics like that Gray. I just didn't feel like wasting time finding one. Thanks!

But what the hell do we know?
 
Graytail said:
One more picture. :cheesygrinsmiley: This is a typical rootball with the dirt shaken off - same plastic pots:

DSCN39062.JPG
Click to expand...

The absence of hydro roots in those pictures, despite being in a plastic pot, is simply due to watering technique. That's why I always talk about techniques and don't worry too much (actually not at all) about fabric pots.

SWICK is passive hydro. I think it has promise in bloom, more as a tool of convenience, but useful and probably not detrimental PROVIDED THE ROOTS WERE GROWN PROPERLY IN THE VEGETATIVE STATE!

If you train your roots to by hydro roots, and then go into bloom, you'll have poor results.

This is why I'm encouraging Sue to do a wet/dry cycle or two pronto, so that her bloom is robust.

Had a minute and found these pics from small plastic containers.

Picture_02474.jpg
Picture_02379.jpg
Picture_02192.jpg


These plants, like all of mine, were quite rootbound prior to transplanting in to larger plastic pots. The proper practice (in all nurseries everywhere, only on pot forums do people question such tried and true methods) is to vertically score the rootball, apply myko, and repot with MINIMAL WATERING. I use a pint to a quart on a transplant. The soil should have enough moisture right out of the barrel. If not, a bit more water can be used.

Let it dry out, soak it, and you'll grow those fine root hairs like in Graytail's pics. (every High Brix grower has roots like that. They're normal.)

Hydro roots are also "normal" in cases where people water improperly, like in a passive hydro setup a la SWICK.

Healthy roots=healthy crop. nothing is more important.
 
Pigeons420 said:
Educational to say the least Friends!

Now this is how we can hold a professional and respectful argument.

Well done :bravo:
Click to expand...

It wasn't much of an argument, but I agree!
 
Don't be confused about the definition of an argument.

"In logic and philosophy, an argument is a series of statements typically used to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion."

It's a beautiful thing. Arguments don't just happen between husband and wife. It's what makes us smarter and open to new views
 
Good morning all. Not sure if I'll get home today. Dale slipped into his pre-death sleep last night. I sat and held his hand, stroking him to calm the confusion that precedes this stage, and I like to think it helped, as he eventually slipped into a sleep without the twitching. The nurses don't expect him to wake from this. It's just a matter of time now, with no way to know how long that will be.

I'm so thankful we were able to get him into hospice. Their compassion and this blissfully quiet space has helped me make my own way along this sometimes tortuous path to peace. I need to leave him to retrieve his medical records from the nursing home, but beyond that I'm here for the long haul. The garden will hold without me one more day. If he's still alive tomorrow I'll need to go home for clothes, but that's the only reason I'm leaving his side now.

Thank goodness I brought an extra baked bud. This one should hold me for the entire day. How convenient that harvest was, eh?
 
And may I say what a satisfying feeling it is to come onto my journal in the morning and find all this wonderful educational conversation going on while I slept.

This was a mini tutorial on growing roots. The point couldn't be clearer. Graytail, I love the way you never miss a step and just throw the photographic evidence in our faces. Those pictures were worth a thousand words +. Thank you also Doc. I hear you loud and clear. Watch how fast I catch on to this once all this is over.
 
I won't have a funeral to deal with after this. Dale is donating his body to science. Very soon here my life changes drastically. After 18 years of nonstop crises I'm going to be able to breathe freely and get used to the idea that my time is mine alone. Then I have to rediscover who I am without him. These past four months have kind of jump started that process, so it may not be much change at all, eh?

Now, where's that baked bud?
 
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