The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

And by the way RVDV is starting to yellow in her inners, I would say she's at about Day 35 of flower, that makes Nov 16th Harvest Day, give or take.

She hasn't even pushed out her 1st blush of orange yet. Indoors I harvested on the 4th blush.

Kinda weird hey? You would think an African plant would do OK in Canada.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Thanks Carmen. The potential is certainly there for color. This is the Mother of the seed cross I made this strain from.

She was the most colorful plant I ever grown. This isn't altered, you can see the other strains finishing yellowed behind her.

I say that because I have been accused of photoshopping this a few times. It's Delicious Seeds 11 Roses.

I'm hoping the frost will bring some of these colors out now in this one I'm growing now.

Wow! That's iridescent!

 

[g-one-three]

Sorry G, that sucks. Even with organics this can happen if the weather turns inclement for too long. Hopefully you weren't relying on it to keep your stash from running low.

Nah it was an extra bean I had sprouted and I just threw it outside because it's legal now lol. I've got quite a stash building now.

Thanks Carmen. The potential is certainly there for color. This is the Mother of the seed cross I made this strain from.

She was the most colorful plant I ever grown. This isn't altered, you can see the other strains finishing yellowed behind her.

I say that because I have been accused of photoshopping this a few times. It's Delicious Seeds 11 Roses.

I'm hoping the frost will bring some of these colors out in this one I'm growing now.

Welp guess this is going on the bucket list! Holy cow lol.

Enjoy the morning coffee and hope you have a great weekend.

 

[Azimuth]

Good to know. I use a quarter cup per litre of RO water in a canning jar and shake the daylights out of it. After a 5 minute shakedown it seems to hold it's ppm.

My original mixing container holds the ppm quite well. It's the next step for me that drifts up. I use so little of it each time I water that I use the extra container to hold the rest of what I'll use over the course of the week.

I shake it, put a quarter cup of it in 3 gallons of water and it comes out 70-75ppm like clock work. I still measure every time but it is pretty convenient. Maybe different brands prill it differently.

I buy it bulk in 50 pound bags from a feed store. If I ever get a different brand I will definitely keep an eye on this.

Interesting as my first mix comes out at 40 ppm consistently. Maybe different brands do dissolve differently.

Do me a favor, make a batch like you normally do but set it aside and measure the ppm's over the course of a week or two and see if you get an upward drift.

 

[Gee64]

Coffee time, go grab a big mug. For those who click the link in the middle of this long winded post, everything is about to fall into place.

As you guys n gals know, I use VPD a lot. I try not to talk about it too much because it's mysterious to many, and quite often scoffed at as a secondary thing you can do to take your plants from 90% to 99%, or something like that, and then there is the misunderstanding arguments that arise when someone thinks they understand it and they don't and and get defensive when you try to help them.

If you try to explain it, eyes gloss over quickly because it runs on physics, which are both confusing and concrete. Once you get it, concrete makes it so easy.

Well the truth is, VPD IS what grows a plant. People think it's light, which is definitely a part of it, but VPD to a plant is what a heart is to a human. Literally.It is what runs a plants vascular system.

So for anyone who wants to know what VPD's effects are on a plant, Here is a pretty good summary of all the parts.

It's a fairly long read but it repeats itself a lot to remind you of what's going on as VPD interacts with the plant, so be patient if you decide to read it, and please read it all.

Pay very close attention every time carbon dioxide is mentioned, or stomata, because CO2 to a plant is the same as O2 is to us.

Without intaking it the plant will die, and if it's partially compromised the plant will suffer. Unknown deficiencies you can't fix no matter what you try will arise.

VPD controls stomata. Stomata control all intakes except for light, so it controls CO2 intake too.

If VPD goes out of whack then CO2 is automatically compromised, as is nutrient circulation, and light is the photosynthetic driver that requires nutrients and CO2 to work, so light is intimately linked to it.

VPD matches light and nute intake so you don't get deficiencies or nute burn.

If you are going to read it then please remember that increasing light raises leaf temperature without raising air temperature, and decreasing light lowers leaf temperature without lowering air temperature. The radiation in light does this.

Leaf temperature is a value that you input into a free VPD calculator, and if you have one, or you go get a VPD calculator, make sure you get the right calculator. You need the one with 3 inputs. Air temp, leaf temp, and RH. The 2 input calculator is for weather. It uses a different VPD formula.

For those of you who have been following along for the last year or so, you are ready for this now. It's a long learn, but once you get it it's amazingly simple and you can fix many deficiency/issues simply by altering room temp or RH or light intensity (leaf temp). You are about to become an elite grower. It's why we came indoors.

It is entirely possible and very common to have deficiencies arise even tho PH is perfect and food is abundant, and you are about to find out exactly why.

It doesn't touch on light much but light is the easiest part, it's only used to raise or lower leaf temp. When leaf temp is optimal so is light. You strive for a leaf that is 2 degrees F lower than air temp as the physics hiding in the background performs most efficiently there.

This will also allow you to match your PPFD to your nutrient flow for the stage of the grow your at and keep it dialed in perfectly as the grow progresses. From start to finish

Even if you don't want to use VPD, just knowing it will help you when you can't figure out why things suck.

It's also why and how plants pray, so thats always fun.

We can talk about it all winter long to get it straight, but please read this article 1st, and then any others you wish, as there are lots of great ones. This one breaks it down better is all. It's also amazingly adaptable so if you have high RH or low RH or whatever, VPD doesn't care you just raise or lower room temp and/or light intensity and it all settles back to the sweet spot.

If you use CO2 you absolutely need to know this, or your plants may not be using the CO2 you are supplying.

 

[Gee64]

My original mixing container holds the ppm quite well. It's the next step for me that drifts up. I use so little of it each time I water that I use the extra container to hold the rest of what I'll use over the course of the week.


Interesting as my first mix comes out at 40 ppm consistently. Maybe different brands do dissolve differently.

Do me a favor, make a batch like you normally do but set it aside and measure the ppm's over the course of a week or two and see if you get an upward drift.

I will certainly do that. I always use mine all at once so I have never investigated this. I'm on it

 

[Thirvnrob]

I have a question. Should I be concerned about the stalk, branches & stems, old growth

& new being red? Not a genetic trait of Sour D that I’m aware of…

 

[Gee64]

I have a question. Should I be concerned about the stalk, branches & stems, old growth

& new being red? Not a genetic trait of Sour D that I’m aware of…

Unnatural red is a sign of stress. I find too wet or too much light really brings it out quickly. Light worse than water. How wet is your soil? PPFD?

 

[Azimuth]

Coffee time, go grab a big mug. For those who click the link in the middle of this long winded post, everything is about to fall into place.

As you guys n gals know, I use VPD a lot. I try not to talk about it too much because it's mysterious to many, and quite often scoffed at as a secondary thing you can do to take your plants from 90% to 99%, or something like that, and then there is the misunderstanding arguments that arise when someone thinks they understand it and they don't and and get defensive when you try to help them.

If you try to explain it, eyes gloss over quickly because it runs on physics, which are both confusing and concrete. Once you get it, concrete makes it so easy.

Well the truth is, VPD IS what grows a plant. People think it's light, which is definitely a part of it, but VPD to a plant is what a heart is to a human. Literally.It is what runs a plants vascular system.

So for anyone who wants to know what VPD's effects are on a plant, Here is a pretty good summary of all the parts.

It's a fairly long read but it repeats itself a lot to remind you of what's going on as VPD interacts with the plant, so be patient if you decide to read it, and please read it all.

Pay very close attention every time carbon dioxide is mentioned, or stomata, because CO2 to a plant is the same as O2 is to us.

Without intaking it the plant will die, and if it's partially compromised the plant will suffer. Unknown deficiencies you can't fix no matter what you try will arise.

VPD controls stomata. Stomata control all intakes except for light, so it controls CO2 intake too.

If VPD goes out of whack then CO2 is automatically compromised, as is nutrient circulation, and light is the photosynthetic driver that requires nutrients and CO2 to work, so light is intimately linked to it.

VPD matches light and nute intake so you don't get deficiencies or nute burn.

If you are going to read it then please remember that increasing light raises leaf temperature without raising air temperature, and decreasing light lowers leaf temperature without lowering air temperature. The radiation in light does this.

Leaf temperature is a value that you input into a free VPD calculator, and if you have one, or you go get a VPD calculator, make sure you get the right calculator. You need the one with 3 inputs. Air temp, leaf temp, and RH. The 2 input calculator is for weather. It uses a different VPD formula.

For those of you who have been following along for the last year or so, you are ready for this now. It's a long learn, but once you get it it's amazingly simple and you can fix many deficiency/issues simply by altering room temp or RH or light intensity (leaf temp). You are about to become an elite grower. It's why we came indoors.

It is entirely possible and very common to have deficiencies arise even tho PH is perfect and food is abundant, and you are about to find out exactly why.

It doesn't touch on light much but light is the easiest part, it's only used to raise or lower leaf temp. When leaf temp is optimal so is light. You strive for a leaf that is 2 degrees F lower than air temp as the physics hiding in the background performs most efficiently there.

This will also allow you to match your PPFD to your nutrient flow for the stage of the grow your at and keep it dialed in perfectly as the grow progresses. From start to finish

Even if you don't want to use VPD, just knowing it will help you when you can't figure out why things suck.

It's also why and how plants pray, so thats always fun.

We can talk about it all winter long to get it straight, but please read this article 1st, and then any others you wish, as there are lots of great ones. This one breaks it down better is all. It's also amazingly adaptable so if you have high RH or low RH or whatever, VPD doesn't care you just raise or lower room temp and/or light intensity and it all settles back to the sweet spot.

If you use CO2 you absolutely need to know this, or your plants may not be using the CO2 you are supplying.

Thanks for that @Gee64 .

That link is a slog, so I'll have to print it out and spend some time digesting it.

Might contain the answers to my brix issues actually. My grow space is pretty small so I've always had the attitude that the environment is what it is and not much I could do about it but, I  can adjust distance from the lights a bit which may allow for faster water uptake, and thereby more movement of water/nutes along with happier plants.

Always something to learn with this hobby and this seems like an important rabbit hole.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks for that @Gee64 .

That link is a slog, so I'll have to print it out and spend some time digesting it.

Might contain the answers to my brix issues actually. My grow space is pretty small so I've always had the attitude that the environment is what it is and not much I could do about it but, I  can adjust distance from the lights a bit which may allow for faster water uptake, and thereby more movement of water/nutes along with happier plants.

Always something to learn with this hobby and this seems like an important rabbit hole.

It is if you are having unexplained issues, but many live in areas with great natural VPD too and really don't need to use it.

Understanding how it effects root uptake and CO2 uptake however, will at least allow you to determine if VPD is the issue.

If it is, unless you have a really dramatic environment, its almost always too much light. What it does if you get it right is match nute flow toblight intensity and then you get optimal health and intensity of growth for whatever style you are growing. Los, synthetics, whatever. All plants run on VPD. Leaf VPD. Make sure you study the right one.

A 3 part vpd calculator automatically configures in weather to the equation/formula, but a 2 part weather VPD calculator does not have leaf concerns in it's formula.

So the numbers... a vpd of 1.40 means the plant is transpiring water at 1.40kpa, or pressure. The air is at 1.59 at that rate and sucks harder on the plants exhaust than the plant is exhausting, so the plant can transpire freely as all exhaust is wicked away.

Raise leaf temp 3 degrees by intensifying the light and the air is still 1.59 but the plant is now 1.91 and will actually start trying to dry the air instead of the air trying to dry the plant. The plant is sucking moisture harder than the air. You reverse the process.

The stomata sense this as they are choking on water as they are trying to transpire, but water is now in the way as the air can't wick it away, so they close their stomata and the plant gets water fat, and with no nute flow but still in the light photosynthesizing, the only option it has is to consume leaves.

Thats how too much light causes deficiencies. Make sense?

It also chokes off CO2 when the stomata close so no nutes in at the roots, no CO2 in at the leaves, and deficiency happens really quickly.

If it doesn't restart fairly quickly all the moisture stalled in the plant causes it to rot. PM mainly.

 

[Thirvnrob]

Unnatural red is a sign of stress. I find too wet or too much light really brings it out quickly. Light worse than water. How wet is your soil? PPFD?

It’s wet - it’s in a SIP & has been since being cloned. PPFD is 575ish.

 

[Gee64]

Ok well it won't be from light then. Let her dry down and see if she un-reds?

 

[Azimuth]

I think my issue might have been too little light, and by that I mean light intensity. I got a light app and started paying more attention to ppfd. I now have the 1000 ppfd level marked off so I can try to keep the canopy close to that level.

The plant is praying hard at that setup so maybe I'll start seeing an increase in water thru put.

 

[Gee64]

I think my issue might have been too little light, and by that I mean light intensity. I got a light app and started paying more attention to ppfd. I now have the 1000 ppfd level marked off so I can try to keep the canopy close to that level.

The plant is praying hard at that setup so maybe I'll start seeing an increase in water thru put.

Nice! Do you have an IR gun? Check your leaf temps close to lights out. I know you have your flower set for the rate reducer times, but if you get a chance it would be cool to run your VPD.

When is your next brix check?

Brix and VPD should both be checked late in the day.