The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

Gee64 said:
Then there is the calcium issue that LOS faces if never top watered,
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Gee I don't recall seeing you discussing this. Please refresh my memory. Why would there be a calcium issue if the LOS is not top watered?
 
How do you think hydroton clay balls would compare to large perlite? Think you'd get the same, or maybe better, air properties using even larger aggregate than what can be had with even large perlite?
 
Carmen Ray said:
Gee I don't recall seeing you discussing this. Please refresh my memory. Why would there be a calcium issue if the LOS is not top watered?
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It's because calcium is very heavy and it always flows down in the soil, so over time all the calcium in the pot ends up on the bottom or rinses out the bottom.

Calcium does 2 things. It gets eaten by the plant as a nutrient, but what it really does, when in proper ratio with magnesium, is set the correct electrical charge in the soil to do 2 other things.

One is allow the soil particles to fluff up from its charge, much like static cling fluffs kief, and the other is it sets the electrical charge on the colloidal platters in the soil that move food to the plant.

When thecharge is correct on the colloidal platters, molecules of food move from the soil, onto the platter, and flow across the platter to the plant.

The "flow" is particles flowing via static cling, not in water.

So if the top of the pot becomes calcium deficient then the flow stops and food stops being delivered, and the soil unfluffs (compacts) and air stops flowing.

Without air the microbes go dormant and again, the food flow is restricted as the microbes create the food.

Synthetic guys just add calmag. I use EWC for its rich calcium content, but it needs to be top-watered in to flow down through the soil.

I believe this is why my bottom watered plants are constantly too wet and always looking hungry.

The top half of the pots were bone dry but the plant was too wet, so I had an overwatered plant with dry dormant feeder roots.

So for now I will try filling the very small (3 litres of perlite, so a half litre of water) res through the plant, and the perlite can catch the runoff and feed it back to the plant. Once the plant gets a bit dry I will top-water it again, so I will have a bit of a wet/dry cycle but it will be more like an optimally damp/less damp cycle as I won't ever let the perlite in the res completely dry out.

If the plant is too wet the dryer small res will pull water from the pot, and if the plant requires more water it can suck water into the pot from the swick.

Kind of like a battery to keep things level.

I hope....

So my 2gal pot has about 3 litres of perlite in it and thats what size I will make my battery (swick) so I can't over-charge the soil with water.

I think 3 litres of perlite is still too much to be honest as you don't want your soil to be saturated all the time but its a place to start.

I can always add or subtract perlite from the swick res to adjust the battery size.

Fluid dynamics are a bit different to wrap your head around. Any and all perlite will eventually all be the same moisture content if left unrestricted, and 20 litres of wet perlite kept the pot at maximum saturation all the time.

It was over-charged with water so I am giving it a small battery that will constantly get run down and need proper timely recharging, but never run dry.

Once the pot is wetter than the swick the swick will start to suck water back out of the pot, so feeling the perlite in the swick will tell me how wet the perlite in the pot is.

Then I will need to find the sweet spot. If its a bit dryer I will remove some perlite from the res. If the sweet spot needs to be a bit wetter I will add perlite to the res.
 
Thanks GEE! Always a pleasure to visit and learn! :green_heart:
 
Azimuth said:
How do you think hydroton clay balls would compare to large perlite? Think you'd get the same, or maybe better, air properties using even larger aggregate than what can be had with even large perlite?
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What do you think @Gee64 ?
 
Gee64 said:
For top watering I think fine would be better for sure.
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I think you’re asking for problems going larger in the soil especially running LOS, regardless of watering style. Perlite is devoid of nutrition.. Larger sizes are going to throw the balance off in the soil and leave your microbes with a bunch of gas and no work with a bunch of weird caverns. Perlites entire purpose in the pot is to provide air, housing, and microbe level water retention. Going larger in the pot is basically sticking up your middle finger to those purposes.

This would be even more true I would think with swicking since perlite shouldn’t be traveling the same as it does with top watering. It would become even more noticeable the smaller your pots are.

What exactly is it you’re trying to accomplish by going larger in the pot?
 
Gee64 said:
Im not sure as I have never used them but I think it would definitely be worth a try.
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Ok. I'm going to start with larger perlite by screening out the fines and the smalls and see how that goes for a few rounds. But I have a shit ton of hydroton and that stuff doesn't breakdown and is continuously reusable so that would be great if it would work well.
 
I was skimming through Teaming With Microbes and I can across a blurb on nematodes that may help some organic growers out and it involves calcium.

Nemetodes are nitrogen fixers. They take nitrogen from the air and convert it to a plant-useable form.

Nemetodes are also very large for a microscopic bug. They require passages in the soil to move, and when they move they carry microbes and fungal spores with them on their skin.

So they fix nitrogen and help microlife get established. They also eat microbes and fungii, and poop them out into the soil. That poop is ready for plants to eat. All the minerals in the microbes/fungii's bellies is now released to the plant.

If calcium gets low then magnesium will tighten the soil and the passages constrict to a size that won't allow nematodes to move, so the nematodes either die or leave.

If you are experiencing a nitrogen deficiency this is where you should look 1st.

Calcium is heavy and always moves down. It should be applied from the surface, not the reservoir.

Amino's are made up of nitrogen. Amino's form proteins. Proteins are what cells use to build things. Without nitrogen, cellular function is impaired. A plant is no good if it can't synthesize proteins.
 
Azimuth said:
Ok. I'm going to start with larger perlite by screening out the fines and the smalls and see how that goes for a few rounds. But I have a shit ton of hydroton and that stuff doesn't breakdown and is continuously reusable so that would be great if it would work well.
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It would be interesting to take those screened out fines and use them in a 2nd pot to do side-by-side comparisons.
 
Gee64 said:
I was skimming through Teaming With Microbes and I can across a blurb on nematodes that may help some organic growers out and it involves calcium.

Nemetodes are nitrogen fixers. They take nitrogen from the air and convert it to a plant-useable form.

Nemetodes are also very large for a microscopic bug. They require passages in the soil to move, and when they move they carry microbes and fungal spores with them on their skin.

So they fix nitrogen and help microlife get established. They also eat microbes and fungii, and poop them out into the soil. That poop is ready for plants to eat. All the minerals in the microbes/fungii's bellies is now released to the plant.

If calcium gets low then magnesium will tighten the soil and the passages constrict to a size that won't allow nematodes to move, so the nematodes either die or leave.

If you are experiencing a nitrogen deficiency this is where you should look 1st.

Calcium is heavy and always moves down. It should be applied from the surface, not the reservoir.

Amino's are made up of nitrogen. Amino's form proteins. Proteins are what cells use to build things. Without nitrogen, cellular function is impaired. A plant is no good if it can't synthesize proteins.
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I’ll throw a little sauce on this.. a lot of people think they need to purchase nematodes or little packages of beneficial nematodes, etc.

This isn’t required. This is one of the big benefits of EWC.. If you have a healthy, fresh EWC, it will provide all of the nematodes and beneficial life you need in your soil. There’s no need to spend money on packages of tiny worms when you probably already have a big bag or bin of it.
 
Gee64 said:
It would be interesting to take those screened out fines and use them in a 2nd pot to do side-by-side comparisons.
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I may do that depending on how my cloning experiments go.
 
Gee64 said:
Yeah you nailed it Keff. EWC is the perfect topdressing, and like everything in organics, it works best in lighter applications more often. I only add enough to just cover the surface so 1/4"-1/2" at most so it can work its way into the soil easier.
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How often do you apply them?
 
Azimuth said:
How often do you apply them?
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I kinda go by look and feel. I check the surfaces every few days and when everything is good the soil is light and fluffy. As soon as that changes I add more. Probably every 6-10 days, depending on how much water they are consuming at the time.
 
Gee64 said:
I kinda go by look and feel. I check the surfaces every few days and when everything is good the soil is light and fluffy. As soon as that changes I add more. Probably every 6-10 days, depending on how much water they are consuming at the time.
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Ok, thanks. I've been adding a small amount weekly, and a bit of compost on top of that maybe once a month.
 
The plant that I pulled from the large perlite tub and put in the 3 litre tub is showing signs of stress.

I guess it didn't like having its roots ripped out.

Normally I wouldn't waste my time flowering 2 duds but I am really curious to see if I can convert them back to using feeder roots.

It's brix has dropped to 15.

The one that I shaved all the water roots from hasn't done a thing, pro or con, and it's been almost a week so if it is going to get better I should see that in the next few days.
 
Azimuth said:
Ok, thanks. I've been adding a small amount weekly, and a bit of compost on top of that maybe once a month.
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I try to stay ahead of it, but if you add too thick of a layer it can plug the passages as ewc is dense, so I have found more applications of lesser amounts seems to work better for me.

I'm always feeling the soil so you learn by feel when its time.
 
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