The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Anything that covers the top of the soil really. Roots avoid light so they stay an inch or 2 down from the surface. If you use a mulch the top of the pot gets devoid of light. I like to hold off on mulch until I flip to flower to pull the roots up into that untapped zone for added oomph during stretch.

 

[Gee64]

Yeah I already contacted them thru their warranty link. Now we wait.... que Jeopardy music....

 

[Jon]

Anything that covers the top of the soil really. Roots avoid light so they stay an inch or 2 down from the surface. If you use a mulch the top of the pot gets devoid of light. I like to hold off on mulch until I flip to flower to pull the roots up into that untapped zone for added oomph during stretch.

Ah I see, I think. By blocking the light you force the space at the top of the pot that normally doesn’t have roots to draw the roots up and that gives you some new space for them to play for flower? And I guess it is feeder roots it draws up?

 

[Gee64]

Ah I see, I think. By blocking the light you force the space at the top of the pot that normally doesn’t have roots to draw the roots up and that gives you some new space for them to play for flower? And I guess it is feeder roots it draws up?

Exactly, and into a couple doses of top dressings of minerals and EWC.

 

[Jon]

Ah I see, I think. By blocking the light you force the space at the top of the pot that normally doesn’t have roots to draw the roots up and that gives you some new space for them to play for flower? And I guess it is feeder roots it draws up?

I tried a pyramid pot one time. A 3 atop a 7 with the bottom cut out of the three. It didn’t work at all. The roots never made it into the bottom pot more than an inch. That’s when I learned pot doesn’t have a tap root that continues down the entire time. Goes down and then spreads it seems. Pyramid pot setup was a no go. Lol.

 

[Jon]

Exactly, and into a couple doses of top dressings of minerals and EWC.

EWC?

 

[Lerugged]

Earth worm castings.

 

[Gee64]

I tried a pyramid pot one time. A 3 atop a 7 with the bottom cut out of the three. It didn’t work at all. The roots never made it into the bottom pot more than an inch. That’s when I learned pot doesn’t have a tap root that continues down the entire time. Goes down and then spreads it seems. Pyramid pot setup was a no go. Lol.

Interesting Idea. I'm glad you tried it before me

 

[Jon]

Another question: why take everything from node three only? Is this a challenge or is there some magic to the third node I should know?

 

[Jon]

Interesting Idea. I'm glad you tried it before me

That grow the three autos were 1 standard coco pot, one pyramid pot, and my one highly successful water res below a seven. That’s my record auto. It was a comparison thing with pot forms. Finished water, standard, pyramid.

 

[Jon]

That grow the three autos were 1 standard coco pot, one pyramid pot, and my one highly successful water res below a seven. That’s my record auto. It was a comparison thing with pot forms. Finished water, standard, pyramid.

So glad to say bye to coco. Super fun but not real. I’ll use it for common gutter autos in the future. All photos from now to forever are semi or organic.

 

[Jon]

Another question: what kinds of things that commonly come up are absolutely colony killers? And are AirPots or cloth pots better for organics? Does it matter? Do the AirPots improve root performance?

 

[Jon]

Another question: what kinds of things that commonly come up are absolutely colony killers? And are AirPots or cloth pots better for organics? Does it matter? Do the AirPots improve root performance?

How would one shave roots if required out of an AirPot? They’re impossible. I much prefer cloth but want to use which one works best.

 

[Jon]

Did I read this right? Your first grow Gee was only 2017? You learned all this in only six years?

 

[Azimuth]

Earth worm castings.

EWC is the common vernacular, but I call them RWC- Red Worm Castings.

The castings we growers typically use are produced by leaf litter type worms with the Red Wiggler being the most common. They're not soil dwellers but rather live in the top mulch layer found at the base of trees and compost piles, and such. We don't really use earthworms, at least to produce castings. They might be good in a big, deep outdoor pot to keep the soil aerated, but mostly what we're interested in is their ability to process organic waste into their famed "unicorn poop" so for that we need a different species of worm.

When organic matter and soil biology go through the gut of a worm, they come out the other end covered in a calcium carbonate slime and full of incredible microbes that can't be had easily any other way. And, depending on your inputs, the output can truly be an exceptional organic fertilizer. @ReservoirDog has documented his extensive worm bin inputs in his journal.

And even more exciting @Jon , once you decide to start your own worm bin, you can have all you want for the cost of the inputs which can often be had for free like kitchen scraps, yard waste, fall leaves, common yard plants like Comfrey and Stinging Nettle, HorseTail Fern, willow, large showy flowers like peonies and daylily, and local manures from herbivores like cows, horses, rabbits and @StoneOtter 's favorite, llama.

And, since you've decided to go organic, I'll share an Interview with Clackamas Coot who is responsible for many of the non-traditional methods many of us use. I posted the transcript but you can listen to it online at the internet address provide at the top of the post.

In it, he talks about worm castings and the use of malted barley among other things. The guy's a bit of a legend in the organic canna world. He's working with Kis Organics and Build-a-Soil to produce amendments growers can purchase based on his innovations.

And, if you're into YouTube videos, Jeremy from Build-A-Soil has a good channel where he does weekly updates of a season's grow (several seasons now in the books) and explains the what and why's as well as answers grower questions. That's a great resource to get up to speed on all things organic.

You'll end up with your own particular style but it's a good jumping off point to give you exposure to the organic growing world.

 

[Jon]

That's the common vernacular, but I call them RWC- Red Worm Castings.

The castings we growers typically use are produced by leaf litter type worms with the Red Wiggler being the most common. They're not soil dwellers but rather live in the top mulch layer found at the base of trees and compost piles, and such. We don't really use earthworms, at least to produce castings. They might be good in a big, deep outdoor pot to keep the soil aerated, but mostly what we're interested in is their ability to process organic waste into their famed "unicorn poop" so for that we need a different species of worm.

When organic matter and soil biology go through the gut of a worm, they come out the other end covered in a calcium carbonate slime and full of incredible microbes that can't be had easily any other way. And, depending on your inputs, the output can truly be an exceptional organic fertilizer. @ReservoirDog has documented his extensive worm bin inputs in his journal.

And even more exciting @Jon , once you decide to start your own worm bin, you can have all you want for the cost of the inputs which can often be had for free like kitchen scraps, yard waste, fall leaves, common yard plants like Comfrey and Stinging Nettle, HorseTail Fern , willow, large showy flowers like peonies and day lily, and local manures from herbivores like cows, horses, rabbits and @StoneOtter 's favorite, llama.

And, since you've decided to go organic, I'll share an Interview with Clackamas Coot who is responsible for many of the non-traditional methods many of us use. I posted the transcript but you can listen to it online at the internet address provide at the top of the post.

In it, he talks about worm castings and the use of malted barley among other things. The guy's a bit of a legend in the organic canna world. He's working with Kis Organics and Build-a-Soil to produce amendments growers can purchase based on his innovations.

And, if you're into YouTube videos, Jeremy from Build-A-Soil has a good channel where he does weekly updates of a season's grow (several seasons now in the books) and explains the what and why's as well as answers grower questions. That's a great resource to get up to speed on all things organic.

You'll end up with your own particular style but it's a good jumping off point to give you exposure to the organic growing world.

Thank you so much @Azimuth. We play around a lot and then once in a while you do this, and suddenly I once again realize hthat you have a lot of knowledge or at least excellent research skills, lol. Thanks for dumbing it down. Very easy to understand. And hell, a worm farm looks small from all the pics I’ve seen! Llama poop might be tougher in PA although our neighbors have an emu farm with 12 emu. Emu poop? Emu spit? (Much easier harvest). Lol.

 

[Jon]

So I have a photo oriented question for the lab here if you guys won’t mind one more from me today. This strikes me as an opportunity to take advantage of before I toss a plant.

Please see my Mountaintop Mint x M34 half gallon pot experiment. The mini Dos Si Dos lives, but this one, the identical age to the sweetie in the seven, has done exactly this. I’m pulling it to focus on the sweet semi organics. This is not worth a handful of Geo for a half gallon pot experiment.

But I think you guys can diagnose what happened here and that would likely be a good lesson for me I believe. So at risk of determining my own lessons, lol, here it is. Total, top and scale shot.

In this shot, I’m wondering about the color. We have yellow cotys, way too light first crap leaves, and then when real leaves begin she achieves what I think is the right color. I know the yellow cotys and this are not light related. So it has to be pot related. This soil is the leftover mix I had from the clone potting. Identical batch. FFOF, bokashi, frass, Geo veg, a little Great White, perlite, activated with RGR. Semi organic (too generous) I understand. Okay so same dirt as the clone and all the other plants. And all the others are happy. I get that just as nutes are sometimes not hip for a particular strain, the same must apply to a crobe soil mix as well, yes? So strain specific response is one answer. Packing the pot too tightly - could that be a factor? And the one I really wonder about - could this indicate that the pot didn’t “perk” long enough ahead of time, so I’m actually seeing in color the development of my colony? The scale shot is here too:

IMG_2311.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 26, 2023

IMG_2313.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 26, 2023

And then here. See how the top suddenly switched to being directly atop the previous node? That isn’t Skywalker.

IMG_2312.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 26, 2023

This I have no clue and no theory on.

So there’s my thoughts and my theories. Any thoughts on this? Thanks guys.

Edit: my final theory was that this means too hot for it, and until she had enough leaf mass she couldn’t deal.

 

[Azimuth]

And hell, a worm farm looks small from all the pics I’ve seen! Llama poop might be tougher in PA although our neighbors have an emu farm with 12 emu. Emu poop? Emu spit? (Much easier harvest). Lol.

I don't know about emu. I know chicken is said to be quite "hot" when fresh so it is advised to compost it well first. But I don't know if that is a bird thing or specific to chickens.

Some poop like worm and rabbit are OK to use fresh. Others like horse and cow should be composted first to allow some of the drugs they are fed to "time out."

 

[Gee64]

Another question: why take everything from node three only? Is this a challenge or is there some magic to the third node I should know?

I found a tutorial on manifolding about 6 years ago and have done it as per those instructions ever since. It was explained like this and I have never deviated from it.

When you start a plant from seed the branches on each node are parallel and remain parallel until at least the 6th node, and usually the 7th, before the plant becomes sexually mature and the branches at each node start to stagger.

So you want to form your manifold on the parallel side of things to keep it even and no side or branch becomes dominant.

So node 1 is usually small branches as it forms from a 1 bladed leaf off the main. Node 2 usually grows fantastic branches, often the biggest on the plant, but node 2 is referred to as the clone branches, and my experience says thats where the biggest best clones come from. If I make a mother plant I prefer it cut from these. So many want node 2 for clones.

So now we are at node 3, which usually ends up as a good height to start the manifold so you top above node 3 and 2 parallel branches grow.

Then you top each branch above its 1st node and now you have 4 tops all still parallel and are equivelent to a node 4. Then you top each of those 4 above their 1st node and now you have 8 branches, and they are still parallels equivelent to being node 5. I stop there, I like 8 tops, but if you top each of those 8 you get 16 and still parallel and equivelent to node 6.

After that some strains will still give you one more parallel topping to 32, equivelent to a 7th node, and some won't, so by starting at node 3 you get about 8 inches of main trunk, and enough nodes to still get up to 16 parallel tops before nodes start to stagger. Parallel tops don't try to become dominant over each other as staggered ones do, and the end result is a very uniform, even canopy with all tops equal if they all get equal light.

I prefer 8 colas per plant because I grow 4 plants, and 32 colas in my tent works well.

 

[Jon]

I don't know about emu. I know chicken is said to be quite "hot" when fresh so it is advised to compost it well first. But I don't know if that is a bird thing or specific to chickens.

Some poop like worm and rabbit are OK to use fresh. Others like horse and cow should be composted first to allow some of the drugs they are fed to "time out."

Interesting! And to think I once thought you didn’t know shit!