The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

@Gee64 I read/heard dont use anything with seeds I belive I seed peppers are some seeds ok? I do understand about greens and yellows but Im gonna copy and paste some stuff on my journal especially the pic of the instructions on the wormer. do I Inder stand this correctly does the final product work its way to the bottom tray > or do you harvest each tray?

It works its way to the bottom. Every 2 weeks I remove the bottom tray, empty it, refill it with soil/scraps, and place it on top. I don't worry about seeds, if they sprout they activate myco spores and when I pluck them they go back to the worms.

Pretty much every pot in every grow ends up sprouting either a tomato, pepper, or cuke/squash.

I weed them out as soon as they pop up. They grow roots quickly.

 

[Savvage61]

kinda like the garlic I have growing in my plant I put them down to avoid gnats

 

[Gee64]

I put one of the 2 headed clones outdoors and then topped each main at 3 nodes.

It worked quite well. 21 days in soil and I have 12 tops. It still has 4 weeks until the outdoor flower shift starts. Hopefully I can maintain it's appetite until then. It's also a 10 week Durban so I'm not sure if it will ripen before the first frost. I should have planted this sucker into the ground.

Very branchy.

By cutting the clone before the plant's nodes started to stagger, it creates some pretty cool symmetry. Too bad I put it in a 2gal pot Its going to eat a lot.

Here is the sister clone cut conventionally. Quite a difference. Still very pretty with her juvenile symmetry. If I get her to finish she will have a gorgeous main. No topping for her. She is balanced perfectly.

The clone-of-a-clone mother that I topped above the 1st nodes on each head is doing fine. Its pretty crowded but as each of the 4 mains grows it will work itself out.

The 2 clones I cut to top the above plant are pretty hungry. Cutting a clone from a clone in that short of time period has depleted the leaves a lot but...

Roots are popping Not nearly the results I am used too, as after 10 days I usually see longer roots but these will survive now.

21 days ago I planted the 2 headed clone and now I have a bushy plant and 2 clones ready to pot. I am surprised this worked as the 1st cloning took a lot out of the double-header, but it worked fairly well.

 

[Gidorah]

Loving that 2 headed monster!

 

[Gee64]

Day 13 and roots are on schedule now for the clones-of-a-clones.

But I have no need so the worms get them.

 

[DV8]

Thanks for your inspiration mate, and follow up info for cloning. I did every step as advised save for prepping a clone branch(es) , next time Ill do the proper forward planning.

Got them in Monday afternoon, still no signs of roots forming, but I live in hope.

Couple questions if thats ok. Do you add anything to your water in the cloner, before or during?

And when you place the cutting in the rooting powder you just place in the puck and turn on the jets?

What lighting do you use over your cloner?

And lastly what sort of RH value should I be looking for in the cloner? This one is particularly interesting to me.

Using soil clones I start super wet in the domes for a couple days then try and dry out once I think the clones have decided to try and root, say day 5 to 8, then go with tops off around day 10 to 14.

Since lowering that time with high RH havent failed to get one to go, although there's a lot of talk of keeping clones at high RH for a lot longer.

Thanks mate, trying not to be that newbie painfully asking over every detail, just see you having success Id like to replicate.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks for your inspiration mate, and follow up info for cloning. I did every step as advised save for prepping a clone branch(es) , next time Ill do the proper forward planning.

Got them in Monday afternoon, still no signs of roots forming, but I live in hope.

Usually on Day 7 I see small roots popping and once they do, well these were day 13 so they grow quickly.

Couple questions if thats ok. Do you add anything to your water in the cloner, before or during?

Nothing. Just RO water. Any ppm is food and if food is going into the cuts there is no incentive to grow roots. A cutting in high ppm tap water can stay green for a month without a root.

And when you place the cutting in the rooting powder you just place in the puck and turn on the jets?

I do, and remember, you are reprogramming the cutting. The puck is the new crown line. Everything below the puck should be planted below the ground. So set your puck with attention, it counts for a lot.

What lighting do you use over your cloner?

I use any light, led, cfl, whatever you have. Normally my goto is an 18" sunblaster led or t5 about 24 inches above the clones minimum. If you drive photosynthesis the plant will photosynthesize. That sounds obvious but if you are photosynthesizing then your very limited nutes in the leaves get photosynthesized into sugars instead of relocated to root sites.

And lastly what sort of RH value should I be looking for in the cloner? This one is particularly interesting to me.

I live in the desert. 35% RH almost every day of the year. In bubble cloners RH is irrelevant.

Using soil clones I start super wet in the domes for a couple days then try and dry out once I think the clones have decided to try and root, say day 5 to 8, then go with tops off around day 10 to 14.

Me too in soil

Since lowering that time with high RH havent failed to get one to go, although there's a lot of talk of keeping clones at high RH for a lot longer.

I hate hardening off soil clones. Its where most die. Bubble clones have no hardening off period.

Thanks mate, trying not to be that newbie painfully asking over every detail, just see you having success Id like to replicate.

Hey man, I was born into organic gardening, Im a farmers son. I never fiigured it out til my besties Mom, who was 76 at the time said "Sweetie, come over tonight for coffee, I will
teach you" and here we are....

 

[DV8]

I have really learnt a bunch of things in this reply Gee, well, more connecting the dots as you walked me through it.

Thank you mate, extremely grateful.

 

[Gee64]

I have really learnt a bunch of things in this reply Gee, well, more connecting the dots as you walked me through it.

Thank you mate, extremely grateful.

No worries DV8 If you ever need a hand to try upping your odds just pop in and ask. Cloning is really hit and miss until someone shows you how, then its really easy.

Soil cloning and aerocloning are 2 very different styles so not much is the same on each style, and thats what messes people up, they end up mixing techniques and its a disaster.

 

[Gee64]

@DV8 have you read the cloning tutorial in my signature? Its a great way to get aero clones to take in soil. No hardening off period and no domes, just plant and grow.

 

[Gee64]

Ok folks I need some help here. I am experiencing some funky stuff on my leaves. Its the worst at the bottom leaves, like this one, and slowly disappears by just above mid plant so I am leaning towards a mobile nutrient.

Here is what transpired. I am using the same soil that I have grown in for years.

Soil ph isn't the problem.

Its not bugs, and the back side of the leaves are fine.

On day 2 or 3 of flower my LED started to fail. Some diodes were on some went out, and I have no idea if one part of the spectrum was hurting more than other parts, but I limped thru until Day 14 when my new LED arrived.

Its a Spiderfarmer SE1000 1000w full spectrum.

Could it be caused by the light? Its almost a mag def looking thing but not quite. It looks a bit different, more like a scaling on top of the leaf but it doesnt flake off. Kind of like a foliar of epson salt residue.

It does pattern like a Mg def, between the veins, and LEDs are notorious for cal and mag defs as they cause greater photosynthesis.

Is this what a mag def looks like when a high powered led is used?

I have had mag defs in the past but this is a bit different with the scaley look.

My last light was 545 watts draw so this one is definitely stronger.

This occurred after the new light was installed. Its all come on in the last 9 days.

Any thoughts?

Edit:We are also having a heat wave and my temps have been in the 90's all week, pretty much coinciding with the light installation.

 

[Azimuth]

Its not bugs, and the back side of the leaves are fine.

You sure? That damage looks like what I get with thrips although from that much damage I'd expect to see bugs. The thrip larvae look like tiny grains of rice and I generally need a loop to really see and identify them. Once you do see them you can generally find more with the naked eye but you have to look really close.

On your first picture, about a third of the way from the left and just above the main vein is what I'd zero in on with a loop.

But, given your typical brix level, you probably shouldn't have bugs.

 

[Gee64]

I will look again but I was pretty thouroigh with the microscope. Do thrips start at the bottom like a nitro def and work upwards?

 

[Azimuth]

Hard to tell for me as I do quadlining so my plant is basically all one level. And scope the top of the leaves as well.

 

[Gee64]

Hard to tell for me as I do quadlining so my plant is basically all one level. And scope the top of the leaves as well.

I just checked my brix. Its only at 9. The poor light likely played a part. Damn, Im 3 weeks into flower. I guess I feed the outside compost with them.

Do you think wet soil as I have been experiencing with swicks would create a preferred environment for them?

 

[Azimuth]

Do you think wet soil as I have been experiencing with swicks would create a preferred environment for them?

Seems to for me. I haven't figured out yet how I get them but I figure they must come in on my worm castings and now maybe my compost as well.

And I will say that look is classic thrip damage so I'd start looking there.

I hear giving the plants some molasses water can help. Something about the bugs not being able to digest the sugars or something. Not sure where I heard it, but I do remember it was a reliable source.

 

[Gee64]

Damn I really liked that soil

 

[Gee64]

Seems to for me. I haven't figured out yet how I get them but I figure they must come in on my worm castings and now maybe my compost as well.

And I will say that look is classic thrip damage so I'd start looking there.

I hear giving the plants some molasses water can help. Something about the bugs not being able to digest the sugars or something. Not sure where I heard it, but I do remember it was a reliable source.

lol I have a much better way of getting rid of them. Its called rotating composter. My veggie garden is gonna love this soil tho

 

[DV8]

@DV8 have you read the cloning tutorial in my signature? Its a great way to get aero clones to take in soil. No hardening off period and no domes, just plant and grow.

Im all caught up now mate. You do a great job in a tutorial, that thread was no exception.

I had in fact missed it, but Im glad you gave me all the answers and info you did any way, had I gone there first the chance to hear all your cloning thoughts out loud may have been missed, glad for the outcome.

Haven't given up hope on my clones yet, every fibre in me wants to go to my wheelhouse and put them in soil, although part of the growers journey is to try new things and learn new skills, so forging on.

Bit of luck my 18 to 21 day window in soil based clones will be shorter using cloner, only 7 days in so plenty time.

Thanks a lot Gee, whatever the outcome you've taught me plenty already.

 

[Gee64]

Im all caught up now mate. You do a great job in a tutorial, that thread was no exception.

I had in fact missed it, but Im glad you gave me all the answers and info you did any way, had I gone there first the chance to hear all your cloning thoughts out loud may have been missed, glad for the outcome.

Haven't given up hope on my clones yet, every fibre in me wants to go to my wheelhouse and put them in soil, although part of the growers journey is to try new things and learn new skills, so forging on.

Bit of luck my 18 to 21 day window in soil based clones will be shorter using cloner, only 7 days in so plenty time.

Thanks a lot Gee, whatever the outcome you've taught me plenty already.

Here is some theory as it was explained to me on the mechanics at play and how it makes soil different than bubble cloning.

Normally, a plant has a circulatory system that draws water and food from the soil, runs it through the plant, expires the excess water out the stomata, and then uses the remaining water to push sugars back down and out the roots returning to the soil.

When you take a cutting you no longer have this. You still have a loop but there is giant holes now on intake and outflow.

The nutrients the plant will use to grow the roots are stored in the leaves and without roots you have no pump to circulate water to carry the nutes down so you must create it through gravity.

Water is heavy and flows down. So in soil cloning you need 2 things to be successful.

You need water on the leaves (misting) to permeate the leaves and flow down, and your wet soil needs to be less wet than the water on the leaves so it can enter and flow down.

If your soil is too wet then the water pressure in the soil resists the water pressure of the misting above and the nutes in the leaves can't flow down or ate greatly reduced.

So damp soil and wet leaves is what you want. Plus a very humid environment so the less wet soil can't suck all the moisture out of the leaves. The humidity keeps the leaves wet.

For bubble cloning you use the puck to isolate the cut end from the plant and the mist sprays onto the stalks, runs down, and drips off. The weight of the drips pulls the fluids down and out the giant outflow wound at the cut, but while that is happening fresh water is being sucked in through the giant gaping hole of the intake so you create inflow and outflow beneath the puck and mo misting or humidity is required above the puck. The circulation allows nutes to be grabbed and used on their way out the outflow.

If that makes sense to you and you keep that principle in mind for soil or bubble cloning and cater to it you will get roots far quicker and your success rate wil soar. Don't fight the physics, use it in your favor.

Then there is rooting hormone. This is vital here. Don't use very much. Its extremely powerful.

I use powder and it comes in a pill bottle. Its half full when new and I have cut hundreds or more likely 1000+ clones and my bottle is still half there of the original amount.

All the hormone is, is a chemical signal that tells the plant to grow roots here please.

If you use no hormone the plant will create its own at the bottom end where its dark and signal itself. Think about that for a second. Does the plant create a quarter teaspoon of rooting gel hormone or does it create a microscopically small amount just to send the signal?

Too much hormone will fry your cuttings fast. I tap all excess off until there is only a light dusty look left, no blobs or cakes.

The instructions on the hormone indicate this too.

Make sure you buy the right hormone too.

Small delicate cuttings work best with softwood cutting hormones, larger cuts like the ones I prefer use the hormone mix for semi-hardwood/semi-softwood cuttings (marketing created semi-hardwood and semi-softwood, they mean the same thing here), and trees, shrubs, berry bushes, etc use the hormone made for hardwood cuttings. What they are is different strengths of hormone.

I find smaller cuttings root better in soil vs bubble cloning, and larger ones root better in the bubble cloner.

I prefer bubble cloning because there is no hardening off period, you just plant and water, and you have opportunity to dust the brand new roots with myco before planting.

The paper towel tube method allows the root to stay long and not be all balled up like when you only dig a small hole and drop your roots into it all piled up.

Also let your roots in the bubble cloner get as long as your pot is tall before planting. If you have roots long enough to reach the bottom of a 5gal pot then use a 5 gal pot. I prefer 10gals but everyone has their own preference here.

Its not like you have to spoon feed a sproutling to get its roots to chase water to the bottom, you are already there, so you can immediately treat it like a plant, not a baby. No coddling needed.

I start with soil that is a bit too wet so the roots don't shock, overwater to run-off once or twice (I suppose you could consider this hardening off), and a week later its a regular plant with root tips starting to poke out and vegging nicely.

In soil you need to greatly slow photosynthesis as there is no pump so the nutes in the leaves will photosynthesize into sugars and you don't want that. So cutting the leaves back to about a third of their normal size really works well.

With bubble clones you have a circulatory system and leaf nutes do get pumped out the bottom so you need more nutes. Don't trim the leaves or you won't have enough nutes.

I determine where to cut the cutting by going down the stalk until I have at least 1 set of large fans in the cutting.

I hope that helps a bit more. Cloning looks easy, and it is, but you MUST pay attention to details here.

You have inflicted life threatening wounds to the cutting so every little bit helps. Add up all the details and success soars.

If your mother is sexually mature remove all preflowers and their calyxes from the leaves and branches you trimmed off at the cut site, you want roots not seeds down there.

The lower the branch/cutting is (the closer to the roots), the more rooting hormone/nutes contained in the cutting. Cuts from the top of the plant are loaded with growth hormones/nutes, not rooting ones.

On plants grown from seed the 2nd set of branches are called "clone branches" and definitely work the best.