The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

Gee64 said:
If you plan to switch to Talborne then yes, absolutely use theirs as a top dressing. Either will work but why prolong it, but you may upset balance switching during a grow. I doubt tho as they are very similar.

I would use Talborne if it were me.
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Sorry but I'm still confused. I have a giant bag of Elemental Blend. I'll use that for years before I need to buy anything new. This is my scenario:

I have three totes of used, revitalized Organic Classic soil. I revitalized it using Elemental Blend and cooked it in over 6 months.

I was under the impression that I need to add top dressings for flower but perhaps I don't? Are you saying that I must choose to use either the Elemental Blend OR the Talborne throughout? If yes, must I use the Elemental Blend for top dressing or go with rock phosphate and guano?

I wish I could have a talking conversation. I feel I am not quite getting what you mean. We'll get there 😅
 
Jon said:
Oh! Duh! Okay and that 75 ppm IS the concentrate?
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I don’t suppose you could save me a bunch of math and relate the concentrate in terms of how much dolo volume per gallon? :rofl:
 
Jon said:
Oh! Duh! Okay and that 75 ppm IS the concentrate?
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I mix up a half cup of dolomite into a litre of water and shake it until its dissolved. Then use it like a bottle of calmag and add it to RO water until I reach 75ppm in the RO water I will feed the plants. However you do it will work, just keep it at 50-75 ppm on regular useage.
 
Carmen Ray said:
I wanted to say school's in but then I had images and earworm of Alice Cooper!
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You’d even force feed a diabetic a candy cane. Gotta love Alice.
 
Gee64 said:
I mix up a half cup of dolomite into a litre of water and shake it until its dissolved. Then use it like a bottle of calmag and add it to RO water until I reach 75ppm in the RO water I will feed the plants. However you do it will work, just kerp it at 50-75 ppm on regular useage.
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Yay! Dumbed down enough for dummies to duplicate!!! Thanks Gee!
 
So all of everything we talked about today, when you mix your own soil, keep this in mind. Your end goal should be to eliminate calmag needs, and only need minerals and ewc top dressings.

It will take a few runs to hone in on it, the rest is what I call rescuing.

Your end game should be to eliminate rescuing by building a better soil, and by learning that soil to stay ahead and not require a rescue.

Rescues work well, but if you need one in flower, yield will be smaller. Thats math at work and you can't avoid it.

Less in means less out. A deficiency robs time so thats less in. You only get to create bud matter for 8-10 weeks. A deficiency robs a week or 2.
 
Don't put too much pressure on yourselves. Be thorough up front building the mix, cook it properly, and then expect 1st run soil to have at least 1 problem.

A root drench will likely fix it because new soil has empty colloids/humates. The CEC isn't loaded.

That means calcium isn't homogenous. Thats to be expected. Used soil brings pre-loaded colloids/platters.

The CEC is ready to go. You don't get used soil until round 2.

If you need help, post, we can diagnose it. If I'm not around tag Keff.

But don't stress. If the mix is solid a fix is easy. Trust your gut. If one day all of a sudden you think, hmmm is that something starting? it probably is, jump on it right there.
 
Gee64 said:
Ok first I admit that mushroom compost and rice hulls are foreign to me, but I think I understand them. So here goes.

EWC and Mushroom compost are both organic matter, so 25% of the mix. I would go 2 parts EWC and 1 part 'shroom dirt to make the 25%.

Used soil, I like 50% of the mix. You built those humates last grow, may as well use them again, not to mention the myco spores in it.

Coco coir I like to add 10% of the mix.

Biochar I would use 5%.

So now you are at 90%.

Rice hulls, for a practical comparison, are a combination of perlite and coco in function that slowly degrades into carbon and organic matter but it is slightly less carbony than coco and slightly less areationy than perlite. It is however diversity from both and that has immense value. So 10% rice hulls.

Toss in your ammendments, mix the daylights out of it, then add in perlite. Perlite is inert. Don't count it's volume in your mix, you add it after the mix is created. So 10 gallons of mix turns into 13 or 14 after perlite is added, then cook it.

I like 30-35% perlite overall. Used soil brings perlite in so I use a half gallon of perlite for every gallon of coco added, and a half gallon of perlite for every gallon of EWC added, and that gets it close. Then after a good mixing I add a bit more by eye to get it where I like it.

I would use all of those ammendments you listed except epsom salts. I have only experienced grief with them. Others swear by them but I cannot for how I mix my soils.

What you haven't mentioned is calcium.
You should have dolomite to properly set the CEC, gypsum for the sulfur and ph stability, and oyster shell flour for slow release.

I like 1.5 cups/10 gallons of soil of dolomite before perlite is added, .5 cups gypsum before perliting, and .5 cups oyster flour before perliting.

Here is my favorite soil recipe before perliting. It's a strong mix because Cropking Durban Poison seeds can handle it. You can lower everything by 25% if you have a light feeder, or cut it with more used soil. I mix a tub of high strength and cut it down with used soil if needed. It simplifies life.

20 gals recycled soil
2 gals coco
3 cups prilled dolomite
1 cup blood meal
.5 cup bat guano
.5 cup glacial rock dust or .5c rock phos
3 cups feather meal
3 cups bone meal
1.5 cups greensand
.3 cups SRP
2 cups organic basmati
1 cup gypsum
3 cups kelp meal
2 cups alfalfa meal
1 cup oyster shell flour

Add spikes and you can grow from seed to harvest with water and fish ferts and EWC. It is designed for zero ppm RO water. Spikes are just topdressing in a hole.

It's a high brix recipe that from what I have discussed with Doc's followers, gets higher brix on the refractometer than his foliar system, which is good, as that was my goal.

Brix consistently over 20, almost always 21 or 22, and I hit 26 once. Over 20 and brix becomes strain dependant. Some strains photosynthesize better than others, it's a DNA thing that can't be overcome.

I hate bugs, they bug me.

I also use 1tea application per grow for sure, at about 3-4 werks from sprout, and quite often a 2nd tea at flip, but not always. It depends on vigor and brix at the time of flip.

So theres some good stuff to help you figure a mix. Talk it out in here if you like, and everyone join in or stop the conversation please if you get lost. Your mix determines your outcome so this is where a good or mediocre or bad experience is created.

This is where you should speak up if you are a lurker and still unsure. We can talk about this for weeks if needed, I don't mind at all. Get the mix right and the rest gets easy.

013 spoke up. 👍😊👊.
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Question: I don’t have any recycled soil to use yet. If I were to use this mix, and sub FFOF for the recycled soil, do I need to change the volume of soil to something other than 20 gallons? And if so, why?

Edit: and are there any other adjustments to the mix you would recommend using the FFOF?
 
And for those of you chasing brix, listen up. This is a tough one, it defies stoner logic, but it builds brix.

Brix is an indicator of photosynthesis.

Photosynthesis is biology meeting light with chemistry quietly at play.

At the end of the day, its powered by light.

Every time you remove a fan leaf it is identical to turning the light down.

The plant receives less solar radiation because you removed a solar panel.

Take the side branches by all means, I do excessively, but leave the fans when you clip the branches out or brix gets tough quick and bugs will come.

If stoner logic has you in it's grip, then grow 2 plants side by side to compare and see for yourself.

Defoliation is a synthetic thing, pruning is a brix thing.

You need enough leaves for light, and enough roots for feed, to photosynthesize to the plants DNA dictated maximum genetic potential.

Natures way.... only the strong survive.

Bugs are the brix police to enforce Natures Way. They arrive because a sick plant calls them, they don't accidentally find a sick plant.

Any plant that isn't high brix isn't properly sequestering carbon.

If it can't properly sequester carbon it considers itself sick, because it is, even if it looks gorgeous.
 
Jon said:
Question: I don’t have any recycled soil to use yet. If I were to use this mix, and sub FFOF for the recycled soil, do I need to change the volume of soil to something other than 20 gallons? And if so, why?

Edit: and are there any other adjustments to the mix you would recommend using the FFOF?
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Nope, treat it as used soil and expect to do at least 1 pot drench to homogenize calcium/magnesium to load the colloids/humates to get the CEC running properly, which fixes PH, which eliminates most problems. Do a root drench before trying a rescue.

A root drench allows a pot's true colors to come forth, now you can fix it if still needed.
 
Carmen Ray said:
Sorry but I'm still confused. I have a giant bag of Elemental Blend. I'll use that for years before I need to buy anything new. This is my scenario:

I have three totes of used, revitalized Organic Classic soil. I revitalized it using Elemental Blend and cooked it in over 6 months.

I was under the impression that I need to add top dressings for flower but perhaps I don't? Are you saying that I must choose to use either the Elemental Blend OR the Talborne throughout? If yes, must I use the Elemental Blend for top dressing or go with rock phosphate and guano?

I wish I could have a talking conversation. I feel I am not quite getting what you mean. We'll get there 😅
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If you have lots, keep using it. I would use it as a top dressing too. It looks like great stuff. I like the other companies philosophy that leaks into their write-ups better, but both products look fantastic.
 
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