The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Azimuth]

I get those spots from calcium excess in chem or organic. Hasn’t happened yet organic.

Thanks @Jon . I'm wondering if the mini-flush released the hounds. Maybe global calcium got activated and then my weak WCA sent the whole thing over the edge.

I don't usually have Ca issues and the only thing different this time was that flush. Hmmm.

 

[Gee64]

How about a little quid pro quo? Need help on ratios for mixing a small batch of soil

Used soil with 40% rice hulls
Mushroom compost
EWC
coco coir
Biochar

The plants are in solo cups but will be upcanned to 1 gallon soon, but the intent is to do another outdoor swick in a creek this summer.

I’m hoping to use the above main ingredients without recooking if possible.. but I’ve got plenty other gear on hand if necessary… down to earth 5-4-2, srp, greensand, bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal, Neem seed meal, Leonardite, Langbenite, azomite, epsoms, rice hulls, pumice

Truly a bang up job on all the soil science stuff, details and pics so it’s really cool to see roots growing right thru the sticks…

Ok first I admit that mushroom compost and rice hulls are foreign to me, but I think I understand them. So here goes.

EWC and Mushroom compost are both organic matter, so 25% of the mix. I would go 2 parts EWC and 1 part 'shroom dirt to make the 25%.

Used soil, I like 50% of the mix. You built those humates last grow, may as well use them again, not to mention the myco spores in it.

Coco coir I like to add 10% of the mix.

Biochar I would use 5%.

So now you are at 90%.

Rice hulls, for a practical comparison, are a combination of perlite and coco in function that slowly degrades into carbon and organic matter but it is slightly less carbony than coco and slightly less areationy than perlite. It is however diversity from both and that has immense value. So 10% rice hulls.

Toss in your ammendments, mix the daylights out of it, then add in perlite. Perlite is inert. Don't count it's volume in your mix, you add it after the mix is created. So 10 gallons of mix turns into 13 or 14 after perlite is added, then cook it.

I like 30-35% perlite overall. Used soil brings perlite in so I use a half gallon of perlite for every gallon of coco added, and a half gallon of perlite for every gallon of EWC added, and that gets it close. Then after a good mixing I add a bit more by eye to get it where I like it.

I would use all of those ammendments you listed except epsom salts. I have only experienced grief with them. Others swear by them but I cannot for how I mix my soils.

What you haven't mentioned is calcium.
You should have dolomite to properly set the CEC, gypsum for the sulfur and ph stability, and oyster shell flour for slow release.

I like 1.5 cups/10 gallons of soil of dolomite before perlite is added, .5 cups gypsum before perliting, and .5 cups oyster flour before perliting.

Here is my favorite soil recipe before perliting. It's a strong mix because Cropking Durban Poison seeds can handle it. You can lower everything by 25% if you have a light feeder, or cut it with more used soil. I mix a tub of high strength and cut it down with used soil if needed. It simplifies life.

20 gals recycled soil
2 gals coco
3 cups prilled dolomite
1 cup blood meal
.5 cup bat guano
.5 cup glacial rock dust or .5c rock phos
3 cups feather meal
3 cups bone meal
1.5 cups greensand
.3 cups SRP
2 cups organic basmati
1 cup gypsum
3 cups kelp meal
2 cups alfalfa meal
1 cup oyster shell flour

Add spikes and you can grow from seed to harvest with water and fish ferts and EWC. It is designed for zero ppm RO water. Spikes are just topdressing in a hole.

It's a high brix recipe that from what I have discussed with Doc's followers, gets higher brix on the refractometer than his foliar system, which is good, as that was my goal.

Brix consistently over 20, almost always 21 or 22, and I hit 26 once. Over 20 and brix becomes strain dependant. Some strains photosynthesize better than others, it's a DNA thing that can't be overcome.

I hate bugs, they bug me.

I also use 1tea application per grow for sure, at about 3-4 werks from sprout, and quite often a 2nd tea at flip, but not always. It depends on vigor and brix at the time of flip.

So theres some good stuff to help you figure a mix. Talk it out in here if you like, and everyone join in or stop the conversation please if you get lost. Your mix determines your outcome so this is where a good or mediocre or bad experience is created.

This is where you should speak up if you are a lurker and still unsure. We can talk about this for weeks if needed, I don't mind at all. Get the mix right and the rest gets easy.

013 spoke up. .

 

[Gee64]

On the now freshly overwatered plant ( ) I'm now getting calcium spots. When I watered yesterday I added directly to the reservoir and used a weak WCA. I've always associated the brown spots with a deficiency but in this case maybe it's an excess? Or a lockout issue...

I measured about a 6 a couple of inches down, and 9-10 4+ inches down. I'd expect it to work its way out in a couple of more days.

Now that your soil is homogenous and brix (photosynthesis) is accelerating, you are running out of calcium in your mix. You need regular calmag. Dolo water is best here. 75ppm is a great mix. But commercial calmag with a low nitrogen number will work great too. It needs to be cal and mag like dolomite.

 

[Jon]

Thanks @Jon . I'm wondering if the mini-flush released the hounds. Maybe global calcium got activated and then my weak WCA sent the whole thing over the edge.

I don't usually have Ca issues and the only thing different this time was that flush. Hmmm.

Can’t help you Azi, that one statement was all I got.

 

[Carmen Ray]

It likely does then. That Elemental Mix that you posted the link for looks like excellent stuff meant to compliment the Classic Organic soil mix, which looks like an excellent base. I wouldn't hesitate to try both, and from what I see I would expect excellent results.

Ok so I have cooked the Elemental Blend into the soil over 6 months.

You do know what you're doing. You got this.

I like the Talborne product. It says available in pellet or meal. The meal is what you would cook in, its ground up pellets. The pellets are for slower release similar to the Geo Flora system. I would grab both, follow the instructions, and if it comes up short then mix it stronger next time.

Why would I need to cook in the meal if I have already used the Elemental Blend? Are they providing different minerals?
So pellets for top dressing?

My experience is that well manucured cannabis plants, so pruned ones, require 50% more than veggies do, and mangy unkept ones that get huge and larfy require twice what veggies do. I'm not sure how that applies to auto's, but @Jon would know if an auto eats the same, less, or more than a photoperiod.

This sounds more "we just want your money" than talborne, and here is why.

I'm glad you formed that opinion because it's expensive and the Talborne not.

This is a screenshot of Talbornes product. It's a checklist of everything we discuss in here. I would trust this system. The other one not as much. If you go with Talborne, following their instructions would be paramount. The only glitch I can see posdibly arising is that they can't legally say its for cannabis, so they can't tell you how much to use for cannabis.

They do. It is legal to grow cannabis here. I have emailed them. I'll follow up on Monday.

You may need to mix it stronger, but my suspicion is that their formula is balanced, so stronger works if needed because it's balanced. Start with the recomendations and if it turns out weak you rebuild next run stronger.


I do and here is how I formulate it per gallon of pot size.

If I use, or the instructions say, for example, 3 tbsp per gallon of soil mixed into the mix, then do that. Then as a top dressing I base my useage rate from that, so in a 5 gallon container it would be 15 tbsp mixed and cooked in, and for top dressing it would be another 15 tbsp per month (remember the Organic Clasdic, good for 2-6 weeks? split the difference, it's enough for 4 weeks). So 15 tbsp divided by 4 weeks is 3.75 tbsp per week in a 5 gallon pot, if the instructions said 3tbsp per gallon.

So recommended amount for mix per gallon, multiplied by pot size in gallons, divided by 4 equals weekly top dressing.

So the top dresding itself, here is how I do it.

I wait for a time when watering is needed so the surface is dry. I use my fingers to scratch the surface about 1 inch deep and break it up right to the edges of the pot but stay away from the stem by 1 full inch all the way around the stem.

Then smooth it out perfectly, add the top dressing evenly but not within that 1 inch of the trunk. Then add enough EWC to cover the top dressing lightly, so about twice what you top dressed of the mineral mix, then scratch it all in to that top inch and smooth it out perfectly again, then gently water as normal.

Thanks!

TLC is very important here. It makes a difference come harvest.

The mineral mix is minerals, EWC is organic matter. Both need replenishing weekly.Don't over do it out of kindness, too much isn't good with either product.

Ok.

Ask what forms of calcium they use. Gypsum, dolomite, others? and how much per gallon or cubic foot total is in the mix. But having Calmag on hand will work if needed, and when you rebuild it you can control the amounts, or if you buy more soil instead of rebuilding it you add calcium to it then.

If you need to add a Calmag solution it's going to be to save the harvest, trust the commercial product, thats what it is designed to do so if it doesn't work they will go under. They know this, it will work.

Righto, I have the commercial product

So this is what I would do. I would use the 2 parts of the Classic Organic blend and Elemental mix Topdressing, then when I rebuilt the soil I would switch to the Talborne system because it looks easy with the same product having both meal and pellet form, then judge the 2 outcomes and go from there.

I'm confused. I'm not sure what you mean. I cook the Elemental Blend into the soil. I am not using it as a topdressing. I was thinking of the Talborne fertilizer for flower as a top dress over and above the Elemental Blend which has recharged the soil.

They both look very similar and I wouldn't hesitate to try either.

As for top dressing, pick a product and I will help you figure out your application rate. Once you see the math 1 time you will know how to apply and adjust it, it's easy if someone shows you the 1st time.

I'm going to pick the Talborne because it is locally produced and inexpensive.

Thank you Gee man!

 

[Gee64]

Do you top dress EWC by itself in between or only when you top dress the other stuff? I’ve been using it around every third or fourth watering.

As long as it isn't too thick at once, use it as much as you like. I go once a week.

 

[Gee64]

Another question please:

This - Try it without adding any dolomite, and if a calcium issue comes up, dolomite water stops it quick,

Dolomite water sounds almost as easy as calmag, I bet even I can make that, lol. I have only had to use chem calmag one time, but in my semi organic reality for now, I’m not abhorrent to a calmag save if I feel I have no other option for a fast fix. I learned form here and from that one time I used it that in organics, a chem calmag hit does indeed act very quickly. So my question is, you say dolomite water stops it quick. How quick? Compared to a calmag fix for the same purpose on the same plant? Chem calmag begins to show effects the next day I found. It seemed to be fully engaged by the second day. That’s coco response time stuff, very quick in my book.

equally as quick.

 

[Jon]

Now that your soil is homogenous and brix (photosynthesis) is accelerating, you are running out of calcium in your mix. You need regular calmag. Dolo water is best here. 75ppm is a great mix. But commercial calmag with a low nitrogen number will work great too. It needs to be cal and mag like dolomite.

Is that all it is? 75 ppm of dolomite (powder, yes?) to a gallon of water? use as you use calmag? It’s that easy?

 

[Gee64]

I get those spots from calcium excess in chem or organic. Hasn’t happened yet organic.

I'm assuming Azi Nopicture means brown calcium deficiency spots.

 

[Jon]

Is that all it is? 75 ppm of dolomite (powder, yes?) to a gallon of water? use as you use calmag? It’s that easy?

I meant water and dolo mixed to that concentration?

 

[Jon]

I'm assuming Azi Nopicture means brown calcium deficiency spots.

I was talking bout red spots, but maybe they’re brown. Can’t those spots appear from calcium deficiency or excess? Or only deficiency?

 

[Gee64]

Thanks @Jon . I'm wondering if the mini-flush released the hounds. Maybe global calcium got activated and then my weak WCA sent the whole thing over the edge.

I don't usually have Ca issues and the only thing different this time was that flush. Hmmm.

I did mention that a root drench can cause things. Look what it did to my last Durban grow, but the hounds must be released.

Watch it. If its a one time thing the hounds did it. If it continues then try calmag.

Your roots are also converting so in that state of flux you may see hunger. Fix it hydroponically if you intervene, as you have mainly hydroponic feeder roots in that soggy soil, or wait it out.

There may be a weening process needed here.

lol I did ask twice if you wanted to do all plants or only one

 

[Gee64]

Ok so I have cooked the Elemental Blend into the soil over 6 months.

Why would I need to cook in the meal if I have already used the Elemental Blend? Are they providing different minerals?
So pellets for top dressing?

I'm glad you formed that opinion because it's expensive and the Talborne not.

They do. It is legal to grow cannabis here. I have emailed them. I'll follow up on Monday.

Thanks!

Ok.

Righto, I have the commercial product

I'm confused. I'm not sure what you mean. I cook the Elemental Blend into the soil. I am not using it as a topdressing. I was thinking of the Talborne fertilizer for flower as a top dress over and above the Elemental Blend which has recharged the soil.

I'm going to pick the Talborne because it is locally produced and inexpensive.

Thank you Gee man!

Sorry Carmen I didn't realize you already cooked it in. You are good to go then. My post was if you were starting from scratch.

 

[Gee64]

I'm confused. I'm not sure what you mean. I cook the Elemental Blend into the soil. I am not using it as a topdressing. I was thinking of the Talborne fertilizer for flower as a top dress over and above the Elemental Blend which has recharged the soil.

I'm going to pick the Talborne because it is locally produced and inexpensive.

Thank you Gee man!

If you plan to switch to Talborne then yes, absolutely use theirs as a top dressing. Either will work but why prolong it, but you may upset balance switching during a grow. I doubt tho as they are very similar.

I would use Talborne if it were me.

 

[Gee64]

Is that all it is? 75 ppm of dolomite (powder, yes?) to a gallon of water? use as you use calmag? It’s that easy?

prilled dolomite mixed heavy, then that solution is added to RO water until 75ppm is reached. I make a prilled dolomite concentrate and store it in a canning jar, then use it like calmag if needed, watering it down to 100ppm for the 1st rescue, 75ppm after that, and 50 ppm late in flower.

 

[Gee64]

prilled dolomite mixed heavy, then that solution is added to RO water until 75ppm is reached. I make a prilled dolomite concentrate and store it in a canning jar, then use it like calmag if needed, watering it down to 100ppm for the 1st rescue, 75ppm after that, and 50 ppm late in flower.

powdered dolomite is dangerous, it's too strong.

 

[Gee64]

I was talking bout red spots, but maybe they’re brown. Can’t those spots appear from calcium deficiency or excess? Or only deficiency?

I don't know to be honest, I haven't experienced excess, but too much Calcium can lock everything out including calcium so I suppose it could be either way.

 

[Jon]

prilled dolomite mixed heavy, then that solution is added to RO water until 75ppm is reached. I make a prilled dolomite concentrate and store it in a canning jar, then use it like calmag if needed, watering it down to 100ppm for the 1st rescue, 75ppm after that, and 50 ppm late in flower.

What does “mixed heavy” mean?

 

[Gee64]

I meant water and dolo mixed to that concentration?

yes, precisely, use prilled not powdered.

 

[Jon]

I don't know to be honest, I haven't experienced excess, but too much Calcium can lock everything out including calcium so I suppose it could be either way.

I ask cuz I’ve gotten those spot when I KNEW I way overdid the calmag. Thus my thinking there.