The 420fied Plan

And here we go, tuned in for sure and good luck. I am sure you will do fine whatever method of making those fem seeds you choose. Good luck...
 
Good day all,


I started visualizing the plan this morning and quickly discovered that I have a little obstacle to overcome. Any of you that read the aero journal know that my system is built to accept cuttings and grow them from start to finish.

Well with these new seeds I'm going to have to figure out a way to start seeds and then be able to transfer them into my system. Sounds like a tall order, huh?

What is it they say? Necessity is the Mother of all inventions? It is out of necessity that 420fied's "floating seed germinator" has been born.

Here's what I did:

1. I found a bag of starter pellets that I've had for 2 years and they are still as fresh as ever.

bag_pellets.jpg



2. I cut a 2 inch neoprene insert in half so that when the seed sprouts the roots won't have to fight through the remainder of the neoprene insert(I don't even know that they could).

half_neo.jpg


3. I hollowed out just a little bit in the center. Enough to place just a small bit of the pellet in there to start the seed. There is a trial seed in there now. When it pops, the roots should grow through the underside and into the water. The neoprene insert keeps the 2 inch cup afloat and the starter pellet soaks up the water needed to make sure that your seed stays wet. I have my trial run in a cup but will make a more suitable(deeper) res for this. They key is to make sure it's deep enough so that it won't dry up. The seed needs the moisture that the starter pellet wicks up. This cup still has the bottom attached but I'll use the ones without bottoms for the Auto AK's.

profile_starter.jpg


under_pellet.jpg


water_cup.jpg


I placed a heating pad under the cup, set it on medium.....and in 4 or 5 days we should have a baby that we can transfer right into the aero unit. I just hope there's enough medium there for the seed to take hold.

We'll see................... :popcorn:
 
Your method of breeding plants to get fem seeds outlined in your first post is not likely to be successful. Fem seeds only come from hermies self pollinating or by inducing a female to present as a male through exposure to gibberellic acid.

Obviously, getting a natural hermie is hard, so you should probably get some fem seeds and treat those plants with gibberellic acid. When they present as males, you can use them to pollinate other standard females. This should produce all the fem seeds you will need.

Here's the instructions I copied from some other place:

It is possible to cross your favorite two female plants to create a new strain of seeds that will produce all female plants. Preferably, these two plants will be different types of plants, not from the same mothers seeds.

This will create the best offspring, since it will not lead to inbreeding. It is easier to gauge the quality of female plants than male plants, since the smoke is more potent and easier to judge it is finer qualities. Plants from seeds created in this fashion will be all female plants since there will be no chance of male chromosomes from female parents.

Use Gibberellic Acid on one branch of a female plant to induce male flowers. Gibberellic Acid is sold by nursery supply houses for plant breeding and hybridizing. Spray the plant once every day for 10 days with 100 ppm gibberellic acid. When the male flowers form, pollinate the flowers of your other target female plant you have selected. Just pollinate one branch unless you want lots of seeds!

Once the branch has male flowers, cut the branch and root it in water, with glass under it to catch the male pollen when it drops. Use a rooting solution similar to the above cloning solution.Collect the pollen with a plastic bag over the branch and shake it. Use a razor blade to scrap up fallen pollen and add it to the bag too.

It is also possible to pollinate the flowers of the plant you create the male flowers on, crossing it with itself. This is used to preserve a special plants characteristics. Cloning will also preserve the plants characteristics, but will not allow you to store seeds for use later. Crossing a plant with itself can lead to inbreeding problems, so it may not be the optimum solution in many cases.

I once tried using Gibberellic Acid, sprayed on a healthy female, every day for over a week. No male flowers appeared on the plant. Your milage may vary.
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420fied said:
Thanks for the kind words.

I could do that with the autos but then I'd have to sex all of the plants in the plots which will be a major headache as well as a major security risk.... the key is keeping a low profile.

I need to make sure that the autos are female. Unless I found a way to create feminized seeds it would not be worth it and I'm not knowledgeable enough to do this. I think I could create seeds but I don't know how to create feminized seeds. Therefore I'd have to dig 400 holes to get the desired 200 females.....again....not worth it.

If I can't cut a deal on a bulk of feminized autos I will most likely run clones. I'm working on a deal as we speak. I'll keep everyone posted.
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why not grow a few females and simply take clones? clones can be planted outside too. I'd reccomend turning the soil over with perlite.
 
Looks like you have it figured out. I did the same thing last grow. I put the seed in a cup of water when it popped put in Neoprene holder with the root just above the bottom of the Neoprene holder and into the system and it grew like crazy, That is until the sprayer got clogged and it did not get the water it needed. But while it was going it grew fine. I know with your system you have all those issued figured out so I am sure you will be very successful. Good luck.
 
RageMonkey said:
Your method of breeding plants to get fem seeds outlined in your first post is not likely to be successful. Fem seeds only come from hermies self pollinating or by inducing a female to present as a male through exposure to gibberellic acid.

Obviously, getting a natural hermie is hard, so you should probably get some fem seeds and treat those plants with gibberellic acid. When they present as males, you can use them to pollinate other standard females. This should produce all the fem seeds you will need.

Here's the instructions I copied from some other place:
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Read the entire journal. I ordered femm'd auto seeds. I'm going to use Colloidal Silver.
 
Glad your going with the CS 420, this is something i would like to see a friend try. I guess your it, lol.:thankyou:

:popcorn:
 
i know its a bit late, but when i advocated STS, i said just look into my journal. . . but it was in my second journal, and there are a lot of pages, so if you don't mind i want to repost some of the info here incase anyon wants to try this, or if you want to read it 420fied.

This is the recipe you need to follow written by Fet the former breeder for spice of life seeds....enjoy..

Using STS For Sex Reversal

There has been one key change that I want to pass along to everyone

I have discovered that using a stronger concentration of STS does not make a plant more likely to produce pollen. It just burns/stresses the plant. What DOES make a plant much more likely to complete it's mission and make pollen is a second spraying at the end of week 2.

My conclusion is that STS in any concentration is only effective at inhibiting ethylene for about 3 weeks; at that point the plant's natural female metabolism begins to take back control, and even a plant that is covered with male blooms can't finish the journey to manhood and produce pollen. A second spraying allows inhibition to last through week 6, which is more than enough time to release pollen.

Some of you have decided to use stronger concentrations of STS. This is fine as long as it doesn't burn your plants. Obviously there is a wide range of usable formulas that will work. But the second spraying is the key to follow-through. You can store the working solution you used for round one (in the spray bottle) in your refrigerator for two weeks; no need to mix a new batch from stock.

I don't see the point of going any stronger than the formula I originally came up with. It has proven itself many times over. The only change I might make is to adjust it slightly to Gobgoober's "molar-correct" mix ratio. This is not at all necessary, but does allow the most effective use of the chemicals together.

Here's a re-post of the formula mix instructions, with the adjusted recipe below that:

Preparation of STS:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.
 
as you can see, he corrected it to make it a bit stronger in the second sloution, thats why I like an 1:8 ratio instead of 1:9
 
Thank you for the molar correct formula and the tip about reapplication after 2 weeks. Makes sense as the STS is competing in the ethylene pathway, so the reapplication will keep the STS levels up in the plant until the pollen is created.
 
yup, exactly munki.

hey munk, it seems like you've done your homework, and i have looked around but only found the same piece of info cited over many times. . .

the info cited is that the STS solution is good for about a month in the fridge.

i kept mine in the fridge for the first month, but then decided to throw it in the freezer.

it's been a few months now since i made it. . . .any reasoning why it wouldn't work anymore due to age??? doubt you have a good answer just thought i'd throw it out there.
 
WheeloFortune said:
yup, exactly munki.

hey munk, it seems like you've done your homework, and i have looked around but only found the same piece of info cited over many times. . .

the info cited is that the STS solution is good for about a month in the fridge.

i kept mine in the fridge for the first month, but then decided to throw it in the freezer.

it's been a few months now since i made it. . . .any reasoning why it wouldn't work anymore due to age??? doubt you have a good answer just thought i'd throw it out there.
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I've looked on the web, but cannot find muck of anything on the chemistry of STS. You could leave some out at room temperature and see if it turns a color. The silver ion could be oxidizing.

I did some reading about silver nitrate, which can also be used but is somewhat less effective that STS as STS is more readily taken up by the plant. In the wiki for silver nitrate, a clue as to why it and STS would be effective.

"Silver nitrate is used in many ways in organic synthesis, e.g. for deprotection and oxidations. Ag+ binds alkenes reversibly, and silver nitrate has been used to separate mixtures of alkenes by selective absorption. The resulting adduct can be decomposed with ammonia to release the free alkene."

Ethylene is an alkene so the silver ion must be the key to binding with the ethylene and getting the desired effect. That is why I really wonder about the colloidal silver. Real CS is not an ion.

From the Wiki on colloid ...

"A colloid is a type of chemical mixture in which one substance is dispersed evenly throughout another. The particles of the dispersed substance are only suspended in the mixture, unlike in a solution, in which they are completely dissolved. This occurs because the particles in a colloid are larger than in a solution - small enough to be dispersed evenly and maintain a homogeneous appearance, but large enough to scatter light and not dissolve. Because of this dispersal, some colloids have the appearance of solutions."

The silver is not an ion in this case but instead are suspended elemental silver. My understanding would be that this silver would be without an electrical charge and therefore not useful in forming the adduct with the ethylene. Maybe some charged silver ions were created during the low voltage electrolysis method often employed in making CS.

420fied,

Since you are going the CS route, you may want to give this page a read. It make suggestions on ensuring that the water used when making the CS be pure distilled water but not deionized. Also, they mentioned that warmer water will both speed the reaction AND make smaller silver particles.

DOs and DONTs with Colloidal Silver
 
munki said:
I've looked on the web, but cannot find muck of anything on the chemistry of STS. You could leave some out at room temperature and see if it turns a color. The silver ion could be oxidizing.

I did some reading about silver nitrate, which can also be used but is somewhat less effective that STS as STS is more readily taken up by the plant. In the wiki for silver nitrate, a clue as to why it and STS would be effective.

"Silver nitrate is used in many ways in organic synthesis, e.g. for deprotection and oxidations. Ag+ binds alkenes reversibly, and silver nitrate has been used to separate mixtures of alkenes by selective absorption. The resulting adduct can be decomposed with ammonia to release the free alkene."

Ethylene is an alkene so the silver ion must be the key to binding with the ethylene and getting the desired effect. That is why I really wonder about the colloidal silver. Real CS is not an ion.

From the Wiki on colloid ...

"A colloid is a type of chemical mixture in which one substance is dispersed evenly throughout another. The particles of the dispersed substance are only suspended in the mixture, unlike in a solution, in which they are completely dissolved. This occurs because the particles in a colloid are larger than in a solution - small enough to be dispersed evenly and maintain a homogeneous appearance, but large enough to scatter light and not dissolve. Because of this dispersal, some colloids have the appearance of solutions."

The silver is not an ion in this case but instead are suspended elemental silver. My understanding would be that this silver would be without an electrical charge and therefore not useful in forming the adduct with the ethylene. Maybe some charged silver ions were created during the low voltage electrolysis method often employed in making CS.

420fied,

Since you are going the CS route, you may want to give this page a read. It make suggestions on ensuring that the water used when making the CS be pure distilled water but not deionized. Also, they mentioned that warmer water will both speed the reaction AND make smaller silver particles.

DOs and DONTs with Colloidal Silver
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Thanks bro but it seems I may go the STS route.
 
420fied said:
Thanks bro but it seems I may go the STS route.
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Glad to hear it 420fied. I personally haven't tried either method but if I do, I will use STS as well. I hope we can see pics of the plant as it undergoes the transformation.
 
so what up doc?
 
Hey everyone,


I apologize for the slacking lately. I'll be going on Vacation during the first week of November so I'll be out of town. When I get back I will immediately begin the process of starting the Auto that I'm going to breed with.

I want to send a HUGE 'thank you' to WheeloFortune for his advice, etc. I appreciate all of the feedback that everyone has provided to this point.

I'm not sure if I'll use CS or STS to make my fem'd seeds yet. Thanks to WOF, I have the opportunity to use either. I'll decide when I return.

I just wanted to give you all an update. Look for this journal to get really serious around the middle of November.

Peace and Harmony
 
Sounds like a plan and can wait to see this project up a running. Have a great vacation... + rep
 
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