SweetSue's Perpetual 2.0 - The Transition To Doc Bud's HBB Kit

[Skullman420]

I did go on a nanner hunt yesterday. But I had no idea they were so small and that they were hiding in the buds. The plant I found seeds in, has struggled during the entire flowering process. First I noticed it was lighter shade of green than it's sisters. Then I experienced light bleaching on the top buds. Then I've been battling a phosphorus deficiency by giving it full strength of nutrients.

They're about two weeks from harvest now. I picked some buds from the other plants as well and I can't find seeds in any of them. So somehow the plant's pollen only managed to pollinate itself. More understandable after seeing your photos and how tiny they are. Thanks! Now I know more what to look for. I have been looking for the typical "balls" or clusters of bananas - without finding anything. I didn't think about looking in the buds themselves. I did however remove most of the foilage below the net last week to battle humidity issues and to get a little better air circulation below the net. If there was any nanners there they most likely disappeared then. But I will check the buds above the canopy when lights go on tonight.

If I find many bananas like that in the buds - would you pull the plant to ensure the other 7 plants doesn't get pollinated. I know I'll lose some yield yes, but at least I won't end up with thousands of seeds in my sea of buds. What do you think folks - I would really appreciate input on this matter. As it's kinda a very "explosive" problem. If I combat this the wrong way I risk ending up with thousands of seeds prone to hermie. In other words useless seeds

Probably self polination from a 'nanner' - pictures from my nanner hunt here

Radogast's Hi-Brix Basement Grow - New Location - New Soil - New Experiences

 

[ShiggityFlip]

When I have a plant throwing nanners it's time to get it out of there. Cover it with a trash bag and take it out of the garden. Then make some fresh harvest oil with it. If it is in the last week of flower I don't worry about it as seeds won't have time to develop.

 

[Skullman420]

I think you're right. Been thinking a lot about it. And that plant is really not worth the trouble. I can't do the "cover it in a plastic bag" however as I do scrog. It's all pushed below the net. So what I will do is as following:

- Turn off ALL air circulation including exhaust/intake/circulation fans.
- Carefully cut the branches and put them into a plastic bag
- Carry the plastic bag out of the grow-room
- Hang the buds somewhere for drying as the potency is already way up there and the taste is wonderful. I will cure and smoke them as any other bud. That's the good thing about not being a commercial producer. I don't need to worry about bag-appeal or how many percentages of THC is in the buds. I smoke everything including the sugar-leaves

When I have a plant throwing nanners it's time to get it out of there. Cover it with a trash bag and take it out of the garden. Then make some fresh harvest oil with it. If it is in the last week of flower I don't worry about it as seeds won't have time to develop.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

I'm experimenting with cloning at different stages Scorpio. The theory goes that the deeper you take them into flowering the bushier your next plant will become, if you can get past the initial wonky stage and let them find their way back to veg. I've taken them at Flip, at 14 days post-Flip, and this one at 21 days. I expect this one will take the longest to root. I just moved her a step back from the light to give her a breather from that energy and let her focus on those first rootlets.

At the end of flowering, it can take 60 days for the reveg to happen. If you flowered for 60 days and then took a clone that took 60 days to hook up, it's seems like one could have used those 4 months to veg any size plant one wanted.

I kind of have the same issue with a clone taken 21 days into flower. Is it really going to be a better plant than a plant with a 21 day or more head start?

Are any of these clones worth the extra hassle compared to a clone taken in veg?


TO BE CLEAR: I don't want to argue back and forth. I think it could be a matter of preference for some, and a matter of plant count for others. When to clone is kind of like how big to grow a plant, it depends on personal preference and external limitations. I understand the attraction to do something a different way - just to see - but for me the novelty wears off pretty quickly.

I do my very best to not take clones in flower unless there is no other choice. And I never reveg. Why?

Well a plant switching to flower has basically entered a road that ends in death. It is a huge shift in genetic expression. Shifting back to veg mode is stressful and something I would rather avoid. It can be ok in the short term but I wonder what the epigenetic effects may be.

Remember you are talking to someone whom has kept a clone only strain for 20 years. I hesitate to do anything that may damage the plant for the long term.

I'm not saying it's bad to flower clones or to reveg. Definitely not my personal style but I would do just those things to save a pheno if it was my last copy. But it is definitely asking the plant to do something it was never meant to do.

In nature plants never reveg. Who knows what changes may occur to the genetics or epigenetics of those phenos, especially after multiple reversals over several years.

 

[Skullman420]

I was just as sceptic as you when it comes to re-vegging and the potential damage to plant when it comes to yield and potency. I have only done it a few times, but those times I would get slightly higher yield on the re-vegg and I never ever noticed any reduction of quality or potency. But "done it a few times" is not very scientific, so it is what it is - One random dude on internet with his personal experience and a far too low amount of data to draw any conclusions to those concerns raised

I do my very best to not take clones in flower unless there is no other choice. And I never reveg. Why?

Well a plant switching to flower has basically entered a road that ends in death. It is a huge shift in genetic expression. Shifting back to veg mode is stressful and something I would rather avoid. It can be ok in the short term but I wonder what the epigenetic effects may be.

Remember you are talking to someone whom has kept a clone only strain for 20 years. I hesitate to do anything that may damage the plant for the long term.

I'm not saying it's bad to flower clones or to reveg. Definitely not my personal style but I would do just those things to save a pheno if it was my last copy. But it is definitely asking the plant to do something it was never meant to do.

In nature plants never reveg. Who knows what changes may occur to the genetics or epigenetics of those phenos, especially after multiple reversals over several years.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Shiggity. An insightful response. I can see your point, and you have the experience I lack. It's been an interesting experiment. I'm noticing the last clone taken at 15 days (Carn 4.1) is performing the best, outpacing the previous two taken at that time. I'm getting lots of experience in different methods, aren't I?

Good morning everyone

Today's the last day of my seed feminization experiment. Tomorrow I'll remove them from the bag, let them air overnight, and plant one. Time to join the Jamaican Dreams grow. :slide.

I'll be planting this one in soil. It'd be wrong to start any other way.

..... oh yes.... thank you Rad for the link. It's good to have many visual clues in the manner hunt. So far......

Time for breakfast. I've already had my potassium supplement.

On with the joy-filled day. Are you ready to play? Joy my friends....let it tumble through your life like a wonderous child, and then share it at every opportunity. Light this weekend up.

Catch you later.

 

[SweetSue]

Let's get this show started. Mmmm.... Dropping down onto the floor is getting creaky. Callanetics is a must today.

Weekly Update: Tiny Closet - Friday, June 30, 2017

All HB girls in soil got a Brix + Way Ahead foliar on Tuesday. That included this huge Devil's Carnival, on the right.

Devil's Carnival (Day 29) It's been a week and a half since she had a drink. Fo all her size she isn't pulling much water from the soil. I'm waiting for signs of wilting before I hit her again. I want at least one more drench before I upcan her to the 10 gallons. Since she's taking so long I'll likely transplant her before the drench. She's gonna need another month to get herself ready for the flip.

Things below the canopy are just now starting to take off.

She's a striking specimen, unlike anything I've grown before.

Ultra Dawg (Day 56). Yesterday was the day for hempy H2O. It's so easy, water every two days with CaliMagic added. Yesterday I dropped the CaliMagic back to 150% of recommended. The plants as a group look sound enough to make the change.

She came through the lighting issues without much of a blink. I've been tucking the larger fans under to get more light to all these tips.

No roots yet on the newest clone. I'll be checking again on Sunday. She's been in the bag for 12 days now.

Next up, the Veg Shelf.

 

[SweetSue]

Ahhhh...... The morning capsule just kicked in. Sweet! I'm telling you guys, if you haven't attempted FHO (fresh harvest oil) I highly recommend it. This is the most satisfying euphoric experience available in my unbelievably well-stocked cupboard. All this time and it still surprises me.

Weekly Update: Veg Shelf - Friday, June 30, 2017

Lets start with the lovely Carnival 4.1 (Day 35). She's the plant being fed Grow Better nutrients, and she looks like the happiest of the hempy girls at this stage. The Osmo pots are easier to care for, since all one need do is coreect the pH and water, but this girl doesn't require that pH adjustment. As good as I've become at doing pH adjustment it's a chore I'd happily set aside.

So far this girl is leaning me towards the Grow Better line. Time to check their prices. This is another of those differences in my garden. Other people research and than purchase, but in SweetSue's world these things come to me when I need them and then, hopefully, I'll find time to research what it is I'm using.

She is stunning! So much potential in this girl. I may let her grow untrained. I haven't done that yet with a Carnival.

Carnival 3.1 (Day 55), my contentious one. I can't tell you the number of times I look in on her and get tempted to cull her outright. Monday she had a Transplant drench, followed by the Brix + WA foliar the next day. The

Then I pull her out, look more closely, and see potential. Not enough color in these leaves though, and that concerns me.

She's nice and level though, isn't she? I'll be getting in there later to open her up a bit more with some Velcro tiedowns.

CBD Critical Cure 2.2.1 (Day 56) She also had a Transwater drench on Monday and the foliar on Tuesday. She's got too much yellow in the leaves for my taste, but this strains trends to the yellower tones once she shifts into flower anyway, so this may not be as much a concern as it is with Carn 3.1.

Structually she looks good. It's about time to get her and Carn 3.1 transplanted into their finish pots. That gargantuan Devil's Carnival is holding the spot she'd be transitioning into. A backup plan is in the works, but it can't go into effect until I get CBD CC 2.2 harvested.

Thin Mint GSC (Day 25) What can I say about her other than "Wow!" Big, gorgeous indica leaves and solid structure, just what I was looking for. I have a feeling the daughter is going to love this strain.

Lights came on. Time to move on to the tents.

 

[rikvasen]

ooh that Thin Mint looks really good!

 

[SweetSue]

Weekly Update: Tent #2 - Friday, June 30, 2017

Candy Cane 2 (Day 48). When I take down the CBD CC I'll be moving her into the other tent to finish up. She's plugging along real nice, being no bother and asking nothing more than to be watered on schedule. I may have to go to daily waterings for her before we're done. She's been more dry by the second day than I'm comfortable with.

CBD Critical Cure 2.1.1 (Day 85, Flip + 5) She was treated to her Transplant drench last Saturday and the Brix + WA foliar on Tuesday with the rest of the crew.

Just beginning to stretch. I train them so low that I don't get much stretch after flip, but I'm always anticipating one to take off and shoot for the light.

She's a happy camper. Looks like she wants the whole tent. Lol!

One more tent to go.

 

[SweetSue]

Weekly Update: Tent #1 - Friday, June 30, 2017

CBD Critical Cure 2.2 (Day 109, Flip + 69) I'm in awe of this plant. She's definately the finest collection of buds I've grown in this strain. I'll be harvesting her on Sunday. I was planning tomorrow, but I have a social event planned that I don't want to miss and FHO is an all day production. Every bit of her will be processed. Well...... I may dry a small amount. It's always good to keep some for a smoke report, eh?

Her last drench was a TransWater on Tuesday, the same day as the Brix + WA foliar.

She's panting at me now. Lol!

Carnival 3 (Day 119, Flip + 69) Her pistils are turning, but she's pushing out new ones as fast as she can, with no end in sight.

Foxtails shooting out everywhere!!!

She's putting on lots of weight, and smells incredible!!!

Carnival 4 (Day 93, Flip + 37) I'm getting excited. She has a slightly different perfume, a little sweeter than her tent companion Carnival.

I'm noticing a rapid uptick of blossoming since moving her into this space. The energy in here, with the bananas ripening among all this bloom frenzy and the difference in spectrum, is more charged than the other tent.

And that, my friends, ends the nickle tour. Thank you so much for stopping to visit and share in the joy. I have a full day ahead. It's the last of the month, the day I do the stairwells, and I need that Callanetics session. Only one more day of the soulmate seminar to get through, and then my life goes back to a more normal schedule and I can get out to visit more. I've learned so much about the male brain that I was totally unaware of after living with my first soulmate for 34 years that I'm reeling. It's been great fun playing student for this period. I'll be glad for the break. I know I can walk away at any time, but I'm such a dedicated participant that I can't let myself quit so close to the end.

Hopefully, you'll hear from me again later. Lol. Until then, keep having that wonderful day.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

I do my very best to not take clones in flower unless there is no other choice. And I never reveg. Why?

Well a plant switching to flower has basically entered a road that ends in death. It is a huge shift in genetic expression. Shifting back to veg mode is stressful and something I would rather avoid. It can be ok in the short term but I wonder what the epigenetic effects may be.

Remember you are talking to someone whom has kept a clone only strain for 20 years. I hesitate to do anything that may damage the plant for the long term.

I'm not saying it's bad to flower clones or to reveg. Definitely not my personal style but I would do just those things to save a pheno if it was my last copy. But it is definitely asking the plant to do something it was never meant to do.

In nature plants never reveg. Who knows what changes may occur to the genetics or epigenetics of those phenos, especially after multiple reversals over several years.

You don't need to take the cutting during flower to get the bushy effect. I have one clone now that accidently went into flower last April and she's still revegging now (almost done). She wasn't showing flowers at the time but started showing after I moved her back to 16 hours. She's definitely bushier than the mother, in my opinion too bushy. She'll need a lot of thinning if I ever decide to put her in production. For now she's a clone mother (my original plan for her).

The other plants that I moved in time to avoid flowering are over twice as large as her. If I had been training them for the last 2 months I think they would still be larger and have much better structure for quality yield. Point A) Revegging at any time in life cycle results in bushier plant, likely due to stress shortening nodes. I noticed on two other plants I revegged that they also produced new shoots between nodes (weak tiny shoots, not productive). B) Factoring in time involved I don't think there is any gain and may be a net loss in productive potential.

That said, it's still worth trying for the fun of it plus the knowledge gained by observing different ways plants grow. I don't know if there's any long term damage to plants from revegging. I'm going to let my reveg girl grow naturally all summer (probably until I forget to move her under lights and she 'accidently' goes into flower again.) It will be interesting if she goes back to business as usual or if she stays extra bushy.

And 20 years of clones?! Holy Cannabis, Batman!

 

[Radogast]

I think you're right. Been thinking a lot about it. And that plant is really not worth the trouble. I can't do the "cover it in a plastic bag" however as I do scrog. It's all pushed below the net. So what I will do is as following:

- Turn off ALL air circulation including exhaust/intake/circulation fans.
- Carefully cut the branches and put them into a plastic bag
- Carry the plastic bag out of the grow-room
- Hang the buds somewhere for drying as the potency is already way up there and the taste is wonderful. I will cure and smoke them as any other bud. That's the good thing about not being a commercial producer. I don't need to worry about bag-appeal or how many percentages of THC is in the buds. I smoke everything including the sugar-leaves

I don't go to extreme measures for nanners - we aren't talking hundreds of seeds, we are talking under 10 - usually on the same plant. I grew up smoking weed that was a lot seedier than that !
IMHO - If you can't see them, everything is fine

I do my very best to not take clones in flower unless there is no other choice. And I never reveg. Why?

Well a plant switching to flower has basically entered a road that ends in death. It is a huge shift in genetic expression. Shifting back to veg mode is stressful and something I would rather avoid. It can be ok in the short term but I wonder what the epigenetic effects may be.

Remember you are talking to someone whom has kept a clone only strain for 20 years. I hesitate to do anything that may damage the plant for the long term.

I'm not saying it's bad to flower clones or to reveg. Definitely not my personal style but I would do just those things to save a pheno if it was my last copy. But it is definitely asking the plant to do something it was never meant to do.

In nature plants never reveg. Who knows what changes may occur to the genetics or epigenetics of those phenos, especially after multiple reversals over several years.

I am doing a reveg right now, of the bottom third of a Bubba's Gift that flowered. I couldn't get a good clone due to a couple of mishaps with my cloner bucket. This was my first run on a freebie seed, but the wife really enjoys adding her to a daily mix. I only had the one seed, so I'm taking the exteme measure. It's annoying because that girl in her big pot takes up valuable real estate in my veg area.

You make a good point about the epigenetics. I started out taking cuttings from low on the plant the way all the books say, but I switched to taking cuttings from the leader and/or another top branch. The more robust top branches just seem to clone better and grow better plants. Call it epigenetics. Call it an inferiority complex. My limitted experience shows that happier cuttings grow happier plants.

I won't be taking clones after the flip unless I lose the clones I took before the flip. When I've done it, the clones start with more branches and bushy shaped, but I end up cutting off the weak branches during training so the extra branches are more of a nuissance than an advantage. I'll keep watching others experiment, but I'm not changing to flowering clones without more compelling examples than I've seen so far. I hesitate to change things when everything is working fine.

 

[SweetSue]

I hesitate to change things when everything is working fine.

Major difference between us. I find I jump right into something to shake things up. I enjoy things going well, but I have this playful streak that refuses to behave. Lol!

 

[Buckshot317]

Why using the bananas? Don't the gnats take over, they love the peals

 

[New B]

Basil is a common garden favorite because its strong scent repels garden pests like thrips, aphids, beetles and flies. It is also thought to increase the oil production and improve the flavor of nearby plants (though the hours of wading through forum posts has been inconclusive in confirming this).
Also read chamomile increases oil production as well.

Next experiment maybe?

Or has anyone already tried this?

 

[Radogast]

Basil is a common garden favorite because its strong scent repels garden pests like thrips, aphids, beetles and flies. It is also thought to increase the oil production and improve the flavor of nearby plants (though the hours of wading through forum posts has been inconclusive in confirming this).
Also read chamomile increases oil production as well.

Next experiment maybe?

Or has anyone already tried this?

Basil is a short lived annual. You could plant at the same time in the same pot as cannabis and they might flower together.

I raised my winter seedlings with three German Chamomile in the veg area. The chamomile stayed in veg while AK47 and friends went on to flower. The plants were high quality but not heavy on the trichomes. The clones raised without chamomile look the same - but this was in veg, not flower. Both of the common Chamomile plants are perennial. Mine could easily have kept growing in veg in a 1 gallon pot - and presumably also in flower.

 

[SweetSue]

Why using the bananas? Don't the gnats take over, they love the peals

Sorry Buckshot, I thought I answered this yesterday. Must have been distracted.

The ripening bananas give off ethylene gas that accelerates the blooming action of the cannabis. Our discussions pointed out that all ripening fruit gives off these gasses, but I have a fondness for my daily dose of potassium to come in a neat yellow carrying case.

No problem so far with fruit flies.

 

[MagicJim]

Sorry Buckshot, I thought I answered this yesterday. Must have been distracted.

The ripening bananas give off ethanol gass that accelerates the blooming action of the cannabis. Our discussions pointed out that all ripening fruit gives off these gasses, but I have a fondness for my daily dose of potassium to come in a neat yellow carrying case.

No problem so far with fruit flies.

ethylene

 

[SweetSue]

ethylene

Flying fingers. Hahaha! I missed that one in the flurry to get out the door. I edited the post. Thank you Magical One. I'm glad I could give you a good laugh.