SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[lazyfish]

After reading that blog about the olive oil extract method and the scientific article about percentage of recoverable terpenes in fresh versus dried material. It seems like anybody who is interested in using marijuana extract oils for medicinal purposes would greatly benefit from using fresh product versus dried product. Unless you were smoking for recreational purposes it doesn't seem like there's any real benefit to a good dry and cure.

You could probably use fresh material to you make just about any kind of extract, whether they're using alcohol, glycerol, or heat pressed, etc.

 

[SweetSue]

On Thursday I watched the streaming video of the class offered by Green Flower Media on Treating Sick Kids With Cannabis. In the Q&A portion of the broadcast they got into a discussion about the medicines offered by Tracy's company, in particular the lovely oils they produce. In her response there was a derisive slap, apparently deliberate in nature, against the oils we produce in our kitchens.

I've noticed this trend as cannabis becomes medical mainstream and companies step into the ring so carefully constructed by our governing bodies. You know the ring - the one that over and over again restricts home growing and home production of concentrates. This idea that this herbal medicine, safely concocted and administered by homegrown healers as far back as recorded history, is somehow suddenly dangerous to administer to the human body until it's been certified to be free and clear of any and all possible contaminants, packaged in an attractive wrapping and purchased from a supplier who paid the fees and kept their nose clean.

While I'm not advocating the abandonment of sterile practices, or as sterile as one can create in our kitchens and homes, I wonder if we've forgotten that we have immune systems designed to deal with particulate matter that the body doesn't need? I don't see myself turning down concentrated cannabis oil from a trusted source for treatment of a disease I know it will positively effect simply based on the lack of lab clearance. And I'm uncomfortable with regulations that restrict my ability and freedom to explore the uses of an herbal plant know to be non-toxic and supremely beneficial to the smooth operation of our many bodily systems.

I had to get that off my chest and out of my head. I have much more to occupy my thoughts. It's not like their restrictions are going to slow us down one step, is it? I just find it frustrating.

 

[Mr. Krip]

On Thursday I watched the streaming video of the class offered by Green Flower Media on Treating Sick Kids With Cannabis. In the Q&A portion of the broadcast they got into a discussion about the medicines offered by Tracy's company, in particular the lovely oils they produce. In her response there was a derisive slap, apparently deliberate in nature, against the oils we produce in our kitchens.

I've noticed this trend as cannabis becomes medical mainstream and companies step into the ring so carefully constructed by our governing bodies. You know the ring - the one that over and over again restricts home growing and home production of concentrates. This idea that this herbal medicine, safely concocted and administered by homegrown healers as far back as recorded history, is somehow suddenly dangerous to administer to the human body until it's been certified to be free and clear of any and all possible contaminants, packaged in an attractive wrapping and purchased from a supplier who paid the fees and kept their nose clean.

While I'm not advocating the abandonment of sterile practices, or as sterile as one can create in our kitchens and homes, I wonder if we've forgotten that we have immune systems designed to deal with particulate matter that the body doesn't need? I don't see myself turning down concentrated cannabis oil from a trusted source for treatment of a disease I know it will positively effect simply based on the lack of lab clearance. And I'm uncomfortable with regulations that restrict my ability and freedom to explore the uses of an herbal plant know to be non-toxic and supremely beneficial to the smooth operation of our many bodily systems.

I had to get that off my chest and out of my head. I have much more to occupy my thoughts. It's not like their restrictions are going to slow us down one step, is it? I just find it frustrating.

NO!!! We're not slowing down, at all! Do you believe that company's primary concern is YOUR health or the health of their own business?

All of these products were approved in FDA certified facilities:

2016 Recalls, Market Withdrawals & Safety Alerts

And that's just so far this year which is only 2/3 over!

 

[AKgramma]

OK, Sweet Sue. I have 1.7g CCO concentrated from 500 ml Bicardi 151 and 1 oz (28g) Sativa buds. What recipe do I use to make coconut oil capsules (00's) without getting stoned out of my mind? I just want to take the edge off the joint pain. I don't want to guess what you mean by 20:1 or 10:1.

 

[infiniteJuan]

The only way to know what product you're getting is by supplying your own product. Gotta watch those biggies. They work in tricky ways. I like that you see that too, Sue, and I like how you voice it. It can be so frustrating to observe, no doubt.

 

[SweetSue]

OK, Sweet Sue. I have 1.7g CCO concentrated from 500 ml Bicardi 151 and 1 oz (28g) Sativa buds. What recipe do I use to make coconut oil capsules (00's) without getting stoned out of my mind? I just want to take the edge off the joint pain. I don't want to guess what you mean by 20:1 or 10:1.

Sorry to take so long AKGramma. I fell asleep across the bed right as you posted this. Woke up about ten minutes ago hungrier than hell. That'll have to wait until morning, but I can answer this for you right now.

I'd suggest you make a small batch of 20:1 capsules to see if they'll work without overwhelming euphoria. That can be done with as little as 0.2mg of the CCO. The recipe would be:

0.2 cc CCO + 3cc carrier oil + 0.8cc lecithin. Refrigerate overnite, bring to room temp and fill the capsules. This'll make four capsules, just enough for you to find out if the mix is too strong for you. I suspect this may be the formulation you want, so if it works, let me know and I'll work up the measurements for the rest of the batch and you can go from there. If it's too much I have a recipe that dilutes it down a bit more that might work better.

Sound like a plan?

 

[AngryBird]

Hi SweetS
Sorry for hijacking ...do we know of a caregiver in AZ? If yes please help this guy :Looking for help in Arizona

 

[AKgramma]

Sorry to take so long AKGramma. I fell asleep across the bed right as you posted this. Woke up about ten minutes ago hungrier than hell. That'll have to wait until morning, but I can answer this for you right now.

I'd suggest you make a small batch of 20:1 capsules to see if they'll work without overwhelming euphoria. That can be done with as little as 0.2mg of the CCO. The recipe would be:

0.2 cc CCO + 3cc carrier oil + 0.8cc lecithin. Refrigerate overnite, bring to room temp and fill the capsules. This'll make four capsules, just enough for you to find out if the mix is too strong for you. I suspect this may be the formulation you want, so if it works, let me know and I'll work up the measurements for the rest of the batch and you can go from there. If it's too much I have a recipe that dilutes it down a bit more that might work better.

Sound like a plan?

Do I have to cook this, or just mix it before refrigeration?

 

[SweetSue]

After reading that blog about the olive oil extract method and the scientific article about percentage of recoverable terpenes in fresh versus dried material. It seems like anybody who is interested in using marijuana extract oils for medicinal purposes would greatly benefit from using fresh product versus dried product. Unless you were smoking for recreational purposes it doesn't seem like there's any real benefit to a good dry and cure.

You could probably use fresh material to you make just about any kind of extract, whether they're using alcohol, glycerol, or heat pressed, etc.

I agree. Today I did just that. Post to follow.

 

[SweetSue]

Do I have to cook this, or just mix it before refrigeration?

Just mix it up. You may need to set the dish into a warm water bath to get it to mix, but it should take very little heat.

 

[SweetSue]

Fresh Harvest Olive Oil Extraction

I have a friend who's a walking, talking ball of pain. A lifetime of accidents and a military career have left him with layers of pain that'd send a lessor man of a bridge to end it all. I decided something needed to be done about that. When we think about using cannabis for pain relief our conditioning has been to go for a high THC strain, with the belief that getting high enough will remove you from the pain.

Well, a good CBD strain will do much more. This wonderful cannabinoid will reduce inflammation, release muscular tension to reduce muscle pain, relieve bone pain, stop internal muscle spasms, eliminate anxiety and release the symptoms of PTSD, among other benefits I haven't listed.

PsyCro developed a method to use freshly-harvested plant material to do an olive oil extraction that's tempted me from the first time I read his thread. Today I decided it was time to try it out. I'd just harvested my Med GOM 1.0 with a 2:1 ratio of CBD:THC.

I started out with 100 grams of plant material, washed.

I loosely chopped it up and dumped it into a jar big enough to hold it and be useful with an immersion blender. To this I added 1/2 cup of olive oil and began blending it all down.

I founf it impossible to get that much plant material into that small volume of oil, so I added another 1/2 cup and went back to work on it. Later I figured out that it might have worked with the smaller volume of olive oil had I started by adding small amounts of the bud to the oil and incorporating it bit by bit instead of beginjing with a full jar of plant material. Maybe someone else can give it a try to see if that works better for you. I won't have enough material on hand until my Dark Devil Auto comes down in about a week. I'll be turning her into this oil, using coconut oil instead.

It all went into a smaller jar that was placed in a hot oil bath for decarbing and extracting.

The first order of business is to boil off the water held in the plant material. That took about twenty minutes. I checked the temperature every five minutes. It won't start to really heat up until it's free of the water, but once that happens the temps ratchet up pretty quickly, so that five minute check workd out real well. I stirred this mix almost non-stop. It's not necessary to do that, but this was my first time through amid I was being a bit obsessive.

Once it hits 212 degrees F (100 degrees C) you set the timer for two hours.

Your baseline is 222 degrees F (105 degrees C). Keep it as close to this temperature as possible. You're going to cook it for two hours. This insures you get a complete extraction and complete decarb.

Decarboxylation bubbles.

At the end of two hours the whole shebang gets filtered.

PsyCro gave instructions on getting every last drop out using a hot water rinse and then separating the oil from the water. I attempted to do this, but the dregs weren't worth the effort IMHO, so I dumped it all and moved on.

It's so dark green it's almost black. Smells divine, although my daughter gagged at the smell. Maybe I'm smelling the healing potential. I like it. The taste leaves much to be desired, but the smell I could live with.

I added 1 tablespoon of liquid sunflower lecithin and mixed thoroughly.

It's chilling overnight to give the lecithin time to bond to the oils. Tomorrow morning it'll get made into capsules and my friend can walk around in less pain. That'd be a good thing. That'd be a very good thing.

Tomorrow I'll know how many capsules I got out of it and can do a best guesstimate on the dose per. I'm coming to the opinion that figuring out the exact doses is slightly insane with cannabis. If you have to limit THC, I can see needing to know basic loads, but this isn't a pharmaceutical drug with side effects we need to be concerned with. I'm disconcerted that we're attempting to treat cannabis like a pharmaceutical drug. I suppose if you're marketing medicinal products and have the equipment to give you precise measurements that's what should be expected, but for the average citizen making their oils at home, without lab testing, you'll drive yourself nuts. Follow the recipies that work for you and listen to your body. It'll tell you when you have the dose right.

Or am I the only one of us who feels this way?

 

[Canyon]

Sue, when I decided to go with a known amount of THC and CBD with the first capsules I made, it was to get a reference for how strong a batch from any method would be. But no, I don't think beyond a starting point there is a need to know an exact concentration.

Where I see dossing problems is in the non psychoactive cannabinoids. How much is enough? Is more a wast? What combinations work in concert? Hell, we don't know the scope of what the individual compounds are capable of yet.

I am wondering if the green chop and oil would be very strong with good trim.

I never know.

 

[SweetSue]

Sue, when I decided to go with a known amount of THC and CBD with the first capsules I made, it was to get a reference for how strong a batch from any method would be. But no, I don't think beyond a starting point there is a need to know an exact concentration.

Where I see dossing problems is in the non psychoactive cannabinoids. How much is enough? Is more a wast? What combinations work in concert? Hell, we don't know the scope of what the individual compounds are capable of yet.

I am wondering if the green chop and oil would be very strong with good trim.

I never know.

I don't see why it wouldn't Canyon. One of the members does a defoliation twice during flowering, and with his first pickings he made an oil that worked to keep his ADHD brain focused for hours. Here's his recipe:


"I made it with trim from about 30 days into flower. I took most of the fans off. I ended with about 100+g of fresh trim. Put that in an oven bag @ 240 degrees for 40 minutes. Then into the freezer. The next day, I chopped the trim coarsely and put it in the MB2. 100 g + 1qt olive oil (3g / oz) and 4T liquid sunflower Lecithin. 4 hours @ 160. I strained it through a fine kitchen strainer (not the MB2 strainer). It left very small particles of plant matter, but since I am using it to make brownies, it is fine. I use the Pilsberry brownie mix that uses 2/3 c of oil, so when I cut the pan into 24, each brownie has about 1.5t of oil. For this batch, 1 brownie is keeping me focused for 4+ hours (not really high, just more energy and focus)."

 

[unforgiven]

well 100 grams of dry trim with 5 cups of olive oil in the magic mahine is hella strong. 3 tablespoons in a 9x9 choc cake we only eat a 1" square at a time for good body relaxation and a really good sleep.

might try the fresh, but from what i see you wanted an extreme strength?? idunno, maybe my junk was hella strong.

also, i think the hot water wash would've worked a charm, i thought of that too late when i did my butter and my olive oil. water would be a great way to get the last bit out that the hands can't squeeze anymore.


thanks sue again for great info.

have fun eh

 

[SweetSue]

well 100 grams of dry trim with 5 cups of olive oil in the magic mahine is hella strong. 3 tablespoons in a 9x9 choc cake we only eat a 1" square at a time for good body relaxation and a really good sleep.

might try the fresh, but from what i see you wanted an extreme strength?? idunno, maybe my junk was hella strong.

also, i think the hot water wash would've worked a charm, i thought of that too late when i did my butter and my olive oil. water would be a great way to get the last bit out that the hands can't squeeze anymore.


thanks sue again for great info.

have fun eh

Thanks unforgiven. I can't believe how much fun it is to make oil. There's something incredibly energizing about making oil you know will help someone you care about.

I evidentially got most of it squeezed out, because what I had in the water bath I used to try to get the last drops out wasn't worth spending that time. I calculated I'd be lucky to fill an entire capsule from what was floating in there.

Incidentally, the recipe I used for my extraction was the equivalent of 100 grams of dry to 2.11 cups of oil (500 ml), so even stronger. I'll be trying this ratio with my next Dark Devil Auto harvest in about a week. I'll get to see how potent it really is then.

 

[AKgramma]

I'm going to try this with coconut oil and the buds from the mystery seed I harvested a couple days ago. The buds have no smell whatsoever, but they were obviously done. Going to make capsules.

I have been wanting to do a coconut run, since the cannabudder gave me indigestion.

 

[AKgramma]

Sue: Inspired by your infusion recipe, I did a sort of poor-man's stew. 21+g of fairly fresh buds with enough powdered MJ to make a full oz + about a cup of melted coconut oil and left over cannabudder from the freezer. I melted it in a mason jar in the microwave, then put it in a hot bath in my mini crockpot. The jar is sitting on the ring from the cap, and I put the candy thermometer into the jar to monitor temps. It's on high right now to bring it up to 212, or as close as I can get.

Then I'll add the lecithin. Sorry, all I have is the powdered. Will 2 TBs be too much? so far, my quantity looks like yours in the pics. But I know my dry lecithin, which is made from soy, doesn't have the same beneficial compounds your sunflower lecithin has.

 

[AKgramma]

Sue: Inspired by your infusion recipe, I did a sort of poor-man's stew. 21+g of fairly fresh buds with enough powdered MJ to make a full oz + about a cup of melted coconut oil and left over cannabudder from the freezer. I melted it in a mason jar in the microwave, then put it in a hot bath in my mini crockpot. The jar is sitting on the ring from the cap, and I put the candy thermometer into the jar to monitor temps. It's on high right now to bring it up to 212, or as close as I can get.

Then I'll add the lecithin. Sorry, all I have is the powdered. Will 2 TBs be too much? so far, my quantity looks like yours in the pics. But I know my dry lecithin, which is made from soy, doesn't have the same beneficial compounds your sunflower lecithin has.

Two hours later, the crockpot temp of the mash on high has only gotten to 135F. I guess I'm going to have to retry tomorrow in a pot of boiling water. The mini-crockpot is good for reducing alcohol tinctures, but not for decarbing. :-(

 

[unforgiven]

liking the go to attitude here.

but my first gut reaction was butter can go rancid. however, your probably making caps, so there goes the oxygen needed to go bad, and also they likely wouldn't be around long enough to turn on you either.

not trying to be a bummer, just was my first reaction, which i already corrected in my brain as i typed this lol.

have fun eh

Sue: Inspired by your infusion recipe, I did a sort of poor-man's stew. 21+g of fairly fresh buds with enough powdered MJ to make a full oz + about a cup of melted coconut oil and left over cannabudder from the freezer. I melted it in a mason jar in the microwave, then put it in a hot bath in my mini crockpot. The jar is sitting on the ring from the cap, and I put the candy thermometer into the jar to monitor temps. It's on high right now to bring it up to 212, or as close as I can get.

Then I'll add the lecithin. Sorry, all I have is the powdered. Will 2 TBs be too much? so far, my quantity looks like yours in the pics. But I know my dry lecithin, which is made from soy, doesn't have the same beneficial compounds your sunflower lecithin has.

 

[SweetSue]

Two hours later, the crockpot temp of the mash on high has only gotten to 135F. I guess I'm going to have to retry tomorrow in a pot of boiling water. The mini-crockpot is good for reducing alcohol tinctures, but not for decarbing. :-(

Water won't reach the temperatures you need to decarb. You have two options, as I see it. You can decarb in an oil bath (I used canola for the high heat tolerance) for the two hours or you could toss the whole thing into a closed jar and do the 36 Hr decarb in the oven on the lowest temp. If using the oil bath I'd stir almost constantly. I figured all that vigorious stirring had to be knocking the trichomes loose. If working in the oven, shake it up vigoriously every time you think of it.

Good work girl. I like the stick-with-it attitude. I'm hoping these change your life for the better the way they have everyone I've offered them to.

Also, with the powdered lecithin, add a tablespoon before decarb and another one after. I've seen BadKat do this with powdered and it makes perfect sense to me. It'll help incorporate all that powder into the mix.

I wouldn't be concerned about the soy lecithin. I understand the reluctance about the soy and I realize the liquid sunflower is superior in every way, but it's still lecithin and it'll do the job just fine.