overlord
Well-Known Member
Mind repeating the settings and time used?
SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
6qt instant pot ordered today
I cook a lot, so went BIG!!!!
Wont be growing for a few months so I'm sure I'll use it for oils
I cook a lot, so went BIG!!!!
Wont be growing for a few months so I'm sure I'll use it for oils
Yes, it is great to start with material that is tested and a known quantity. I find one of the biggest obstacles we all face when trying to get the most potent or consistent medicine is not knowing the percentage of the material we are starting with or being able to test the final result. In a few years I hope hand held testers are more cost effective allowing people to easily test quality at home. I can ask people for their pointers on doing things this way or that way but in the end without actual tests, it is all just a shot in the dark. We experiment and test by administering the medicine and judging based on effects and comparison to our last batches, but it is next to impossible to streamline the process and fine tune for optimal potency without testing the final product.Someday...... someday we’ll all be able to say this.
On a side note, I was thinking of going with a pressure cooker after reading peoples feedback but instead I am adding a DIY temperature controller to my crock pot. Once finished, I can calibrate and mark the controls for the various temps needed to complete the process. Right now, I use a small crock pot and a digital thermometer with a temp alarm. It is a bit of a hassled because I have to keep switching back and forth from high to warm to keep the "stew" within an acceptable range. It will be nice to set it and forget it. Should be building the "gadget" this week.... Maybe I can post some pics and instructions.
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
I ran your numbers and came up with 71 mg thc and 34 mg cbd per 1 ml capsule.
- Thread starter
- #6,425
Look at that Bill.... almost an exact 2:1.
Thank you Oldbear.
I swear I’m gonna start using your calculator. I pretty much wing it nowadays and don’t much worry about exact measurements, but I don’t work with a patient that critical. I wonder if they have the tCheck back up for sale?
Nope. Guess it’s not time yet for me to get precise. Won’t it be nice when we have affordable testing facilities in every neighborhood? I’ll be happiest with affordable home testing.
- Thread starter
- #6,426
Update: The daughter's regimen
It's been a while since I shared developments. We had a scary moment a few days back when it looked like my move to NOLA would cause her access to the oils to be cut, but I think I see a silver lining appearing, and I'll hold true to my belief that it'll all work out wonderfully. She's been on this regimen for over two years now, and the improvement in her life experience is dramatic to say the least.
We faced the reality that we weren't walking the talk on high CBD medicines, when they were the choice showing the most benefit for anxiety disorders. After a couple months of false starts my impending move lit a fire under us to at least give it a try before I left. If we can reduce her need for the base oil, a near 1:2 THC:CBD dominant, then we buy more time. We weren't anticipating this move when we started this latest round in my attempt to actually keep a perpetual running, and it looked like we'd run out at her current usage.
So last week she cut the dose of her regular meds in half and kept herself at that level for three days to let the ECS reset a little, forcing herself to live with the rising anxiety. At the end of three days (yesterday) she added in one Candida capsule (3 grams to a half cup of olive oil). This morning she woke up with comfy toes, her indicator that she's back in her groove.
Her groove has far less THC in it. She still uses her vape for breakthrough and recreation and brownies for sleep. I'm pretty fond of the brownies. They're a 100% extraction and add fiber content to the diet. Lol! She's used them for so long and they've been so consistent in potency that it's easy for her to dose.
Unfortunately, I have no more of the Candida, and may have to purchase some isolate powder and formulate something close in values to fill in until I do get one through to harvest. Yes, I will be growing one, now that we see the benefit.
I stop sometimes and consider the responsibility in being someone else's supply. There's never been a question of whether or not I'd grow for her and turn it into medicine, but I also know how much more secure she'll feel when she has the freedom to grow it herself without breaking the law. Can you even imagine the anxiety trying to grow her own in today's repressive atmosphere would create? I have a good idea what it'd do to her and I'll do just about anything to keep it from happening.
I asked myself the other day what I desired concerning her regimen, and the answer was that she'd have the freedom to continue using cannabis just like she does now, even though I'll no longer live three steps from her apartment.
That's the energy I'm gonna hold faithful to.
Comfy toes is where you want her to be wherever you live. I hope she will always be there.
- Thread starter
- #6,428
I'm aghast that I missed this m'lord.
High pressure, 110 minutes (1 Hr, 50 min), don't forget to turn off "Keep Warm."
- Thread starter
- #6,429
Oh, please do Robileaf.
I look forward to seeing how it works out. I have a small crockpot too. Bought it for the express purpose of making oils, and then got the Instant Pot and haven't used that crock pot yet. I'll be producing more oils as the year progresses, and I've found having multiple ways of pulling the same job off works well for me.- Thread starter
- #6,430
Yes indeed.
We had a short discussion on the energy she wanted to carry about it, and comfy toes won out. Lol! She's such a fun daughter. We laugh a lot. Lol!
Thanks Oldbear
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
Sue/Everyone,
This site has often discussed the importance of whole plant extracts vs isolated, synthetic, etc. We've also discussed how some of the more newer, eg, flavor of the month, extremely high THC or CBD, strains do not quite live up to the effects/benefits that some of the older, less manipulated, ie, landrace strains have. That's not to say that some of the newer strains aren't well thought out, etc. and are very beneficial. But, as is often the case, extensive breeding for certain characteristics often breeds out others. Think about how the strains from the 60s-70s - often with low THC, would knock your socks off. There was a reason why. Finally, someone took a real close look at this. Here is a link to the full study: Chemometric Analysis of Cannabinoids: Chemotaxonomy and Domestication Syndrome This study reinforced my belief that until we really know how the entourage effect of cannabis works, we might be better off medically staying as close to the original, ie landrace strains, or at least landrace hybrids, as we can.
A couple of quick quotes of note from the study that gives an overview of the findings.
"Together, these data indicate the domestication of the cannabis germplasm has resulted in a loss of the CBDA pathway in some strains and reallocation of resources between CBDA and THCA pathways in others. The impact of domestication is a lack of chemical diversity and loss of biodiversity in modern cannabis strains."
"Recent forensic evaluations of confiscated sensimilla cannabis in the US has shown dramatic increases in total THC content over the last 30 years, from 6.3% to 11.5%29,30 but strains with greater than 20% total THC are available in the marketplace. This artificial increase in THCA production has resulted in the loss of CBDA synthase activity in THC dominant strains. Although crossbreeding will result in THC:CBD hybrid offspring, the loss of other biosynthetic pathways is unknown due to the non-rigorous breeding programs focusing primarily on the production of a single metabolite. Our data indicate that these breeding programs have also impacted unknown related metabolites with undetermined function."
This site has often discussed the importance of whole plant extracts vs isolated, synthetic, etc. We've also discussed how some of the more newer, eg, flavor of the month, extremely high THC or CBD, strains do not quite live up to the effects/benefits that some of the older, less manipulated, ie, landrace strains have. That's not to say that some of the newer strains aren't well thought out, etc. and are very beneficial. But, as is often the case, extensive breeding for certain characteristics often breeds out others. Think about how the strains from the 60s-70s - often with low THC, would knock your socks off. There was a reason why. Finally, someone took a real close look at this. Here is a link to the full study: Chemometric Analysis of Cannabinoids: Chemotaxonomy and Domestication Syndrome This study reinforced my belief that until we really know how the entourage effect of cannabis works, we might be better off medically staying as close to the original, ie landrace strains, or at least landrace hybrids, as we can.
A couple of quick quotes of note from the study that gives an overview of the findings.
"Together, these data indicate the domestication of the cannabis germplasm has resulted in a loss of the CBDA pathway in some strains and reallocation of resources between CBDA and THCA pathways in others. The impact of domestication is a lack of chemical diversity and loss of biodiversity in modern cannabis strains."
"Recent forensic evaluations of confiscated sensimilla cannabis in the US has shown dramatic increases in total THC content over the last 30 years, from 6.3% to 11.5%29,30 but strains with greater than 20% total THC are available in the marketplace. This artificial increase in THCA production has resulted in the loss of CBDA synthase activity in THC dominant strains. Although crossbreeding will result in THC:CBD hybrid offspring, the loss of other biosynthetic pathways is unknown due to the non-rigorous breeding programs focusing primarily on the production of a single metabolite. Our data indicate that these breeding programs have also impacted unknown related metabolites with undetermined function."
- Thread starter
- #6,433
And here I was, waking up this morning with my thoughts going to the biosphere around the plant itself and its importance in cultivating vigorious chemovars, something I have yet to pay attention to. Lol! There is so much we don't yet understand.
Mike, thank you for bring it to our attention. It definately deserves a closer look. Turns out diversity is a good thing in all life forms, doesn't it?
Glancing at the beginning of the article I found myself wondering why the fuss? Everywhere I turn there's more unofficial breeding going on, which in my mind translates into increased diversity, or am I missing something? Leave cannabis to grow wild and we'll have a potpourri of cannabinoid diversity all over the planet. Lol! I must be in contact with a dozen members right now that're actively manipulating the genetic pathways of their cultivars to produce better, more individualized medicines.
I can see where what's being sold is deceptive, and it'd be nice to see that mess cleaned up. In California they're waking up to the idea of identifying the product by anticipated effect, not by any name that seems to be in fashion.
But I don't feel the same concern the authors project, and maybe that's because I'm surrounded by manic pollen-chuckers. Lol!
As I typed that a set of text messages from one such aspiring mad scientist of cannabis came through the phone.
Do you personally see this as a concern from where you sit Mike? I see breeders actively restarting those pathways. The breeding for individual cannabinoid loads is supposed to be cutting edge. I doubt seriously that we'll come to a point where .........
Monsanto's destruction of the biodiversity of corn and soybeans springs to mind. Anything is possible if we don't pay attention. So the question becomes, how do we turn this around?
- Thread starter
- #6,435
Hehehe! I had a vision of the membership doing this at every opportunity with all the bag seed we've accumulated. !
!
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
First, a disclaimer: I have zero breeding experience. Well, I have fathered three children, but really didnt give much thought to the genetics going into the mix! LOL!And here I was, waking up this morning with my thoughts going to the biosphere around the plant itself and its importance in cultivating vigorious chemovars, something I have yet to pay attention to. Lol! There is so much we don't yet understand.
Mike, thank you for bring it to our attention. It definately deserves a closer look. Turns out diversity is a good thing in all life forms, doesn't it?
Glancing at the beginning of the article I found myself wondering why the fuss? Everywhere I turn there's more unofficial breeding going on, which in my mind translates into increased diversity, or am I missing something? Leave cannabis to grow wild and we'll have a potpourri of cannabinoid diversity all over the planet. Lol! I must be in contact with a dozen members right now that're actively manipulating the genetic pathways of their cultivars to produce better, more individualized medicines.
I can see where what's being sold is deceptive, and it'd be nice to see that mess cleaned up. In California they're waking up to the idea of identifying the product by anticipated effect, not by any name that seems to be in fashion.
But I don't feel the same concern the authors project, and maybe that's because I'm surrounded by manic pollen-throwers. Lol!
As I typed that a set of text messages from one such aspiring mad scientist of cannabis came through the phone.
Do you personally see this as a concern from where you sit Mike? I see breeders actively restarting those pathways. The breeding for individual cannabinoid loads is supposed to be cutting edge. I doubt seriously that we'll come to a point where .........
Monsanto's destruction of the biodiversity of corn and soybeans springs to mind. Anything is possible if we don't pay attention. So the question becomes, how do we turn this around?
I also haven’t kept up with what top breeders are doing these days, so I may be a day late and a dollar short reporting this research.
I’m all for diversity in any species. Look though at what’s happened to potatoes, rice, wheat, bananas, etc. over the years. A lot of monoculture has created feasts and famines. Perhaps that’s an argument against the research I referenced. Common sense tells me if you don’t know what your doing, things get lost in the process.
Just as the seed bank in Iceland or Greenland (wherever) is preserving landrace (food) genetics - in the event of a worst case scenario, I think we could all agree that preserving the old cannabis strains is important to the future of the plant.
If the article is correct that certain processes are being altered by willy nilly breeding then I wonder about the future of the plant.
I’m glad to hear that there are breeders who are actively reproducing these pathways. I was not aware of CA efforts to classify strains by anticipate effects. I do see some breeders-Ace Seeds comes to mind, that are providing an “anticipated effect” filter on their strain search engine.
I’m torn between the idea of a Johnny Cannabiseed approach and one that isolates strains from “foreign” pollen.
Obvsiously, we still have lot to learn from our magical plant.
- Thread starter
- #6,437
Someday Cannabis Sativa will be unleashed into the wild again, and I have great faith that a species with this much genetic diversity to begin with will flourish once freedom reigns again in the “land of the free.”
I hear you though, and the implication of the research is that we may lose pathways that can’t be brought back.
What your seeing in the markets are controlled growing for commercial sale. What’s going on in tents all across the country is the greatest unknown, IMO.
I hear you though, and the implication of the research is that we may lose pathways that can’t be brought back.
What your seeing in the markets are controlled growing for commercial sale. What’s going on in tents all across the country is the greatest unknown, IMO.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
Totally agree, Mike. Thanx for sharing.
We simply don't know what we don't know! We've recently experienced a period of selective breeding with the primary goals of increased yields and higher levels of THC. Finally (hopefully), we're embarking on a new era of realization that this plant holds so much more potential in areas that have been ignored. Unfortunately, it's just too late for some of the old time strains we so enjoyed in our youth.
With expectations of a new seed delivery, I've recently turned my attention to some (hopefully minimally manipulated) pure sativa and pure indica strains that I'm looking forward to exploring.
And, also, along the lines of what we're missing, I'd like to expand on a tangent that probably is a bit inappropriate on this particular thread. I beg your forgiveness, Sue.
With the many unexplored mysteries this plant continues to hold, has anyone ever queried what we're missing with our sophisticated extractions, infusions and processing? What beneficial elements are we disposing in our residue?
With this in mind, over the last few months I've been simply doing a good decarb, finely grinding the material, lightly packing it in a size 1 gel cap, adding a few drops of a good carrier oil and letting it set overnight prior to ingesting. No additional terpene robbing manipulation required. The results have been very satisfying and far superior to other extraction or infusion methods I've tried. The effects are nearer to that experienced through inhalation.
Just keeping it simple and enjoying all the benefits the plant has to give!
We simply don't know what we don't know! We've recently experienced a period of selective breeding with the primary goals of increased yields and higher levels of THC. Finally (hopefully), we're embarking on a new era of realization that this plant holds so much more potential in areas that have been ignored. Unfortunately, it's just too late for some of the old time strains we so enjoyed in our youth.
With expectations of a new seed delivery, I've recently turned my attention to some (hopefully minimally manipulated) pure sativa and pure indica strains that I'm looking forward to exploring.
And, also, along the lines of what we're missing, I'd like to expand on a tangent that probably is a bit inappropriate on this particular thread. I beg your forgiveness, Sue.
With the many unexplored mysteries this plant continues to hold, has anyone ever queried what we're missing with our sophisticated extractions, infusions and processing? What beneficial elements are we disposing in our residue?
With this in mind, over the last few months I've been simply doing a good decarb, finely grinding the material, lightly packing it in a size 1 gel cap, adding a few drops of a good carrier oil and letting it set overnight prior to ingesting. No additional terpene robbing manipulation required. The results have been very satisfying and far superior to other extraction or infusion methods I've tried. The effects are nearer to that experienced through inhalation.
Just keeping it simple and enjoying all the benefits the plant has to give!
- Thread starter
- #6,439
This is why I dose with brownies. 100% extraction since I don't strain the plant material out.
Have you documented this with photos yet Bucudinkydow? If you don't care to I can do so myself, but I'm assuming you have a routine that works efficiently already in practice, and I'm the curious type.
It'd make a great tutorial. Size 1 holds about 400 mg, compared to 735 mg in the 00, which is what I use for dosing my daughter. How many do you take at a time? What effect do you feel from ingesting one? They can be filled, frozen, and cut down to a manageable size for dosing control.
I'm thinking you could mix it up with some lecithin, sit it in the fridge overnight, bring back to room temp and fill capsules with a syringe. I have some mash in the freezer I've been meaning to do that with, as a matter of fact. Need to do something with it before I move, and you just lit that fire. Thank you, my friend.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
Thanx, Sue.
Would be glad to do a tutorial but I'm presently at el casa del norte for a couple of weeks and all my supplies are at my other home.
I use a conventional herb grinder and lightly pack the cap by hand. Yes, it is labor intensive but have plans to mechanize the process with a coffee grinder and a pill filling tray very shortly.
I consider myself strictly a medicinal user although I do rely on cannabis for some emotional stability soooo...... I generally only put 60-100mg in the size 1 cap which leaves room for about 6-10 drops of MCT oil administered with an eye dropper. I've never been able to force more than 200mg of dried ground herb into a size 1 cap. I use the caps twice a day but only one cap per dose.
This always puts me in a comfortable place. Onset is sometimes a bit inconsistent (I dare say possibly due to stomach content) but generally comes on within 30-60 minutes. The effects are longer lasting than any other modality if ever used. Rather than the typical linear ramp up to a peak and then a steady decline, the effect is fairly stable with only mild ebbs and neaps. Only after about five hours is there a noticeable, gentle decline.
The last batch I made, I used lecithin for the first time. I added it to the MCT oil at a rate of about 20% solution. Added to an indica herb, I noticed no appreciable difference. Added to a sativa blend, I'm having to work really hard to convince myself that it wasn't actually a bit detrimental to the effect. I may revisit this combination with the addition of a chill cycle.
I recently shared this process on another forum. One individual moved up to a size 0 cap on his third use and had a very bad trip. Made me feel very bad so I offer a word of caution.
Would be glad to do a tutorial but I'm presently at el casa del norte for a couple of weeks and all my supplies are at my other home.
I use a conventional herb grinder and lightly pack the cap by hand. Yes, it is labor intensive but have plans to mechanize the process with a coffee grinder and a pill filling tray very shortly.
I consider myself strictly a medicinal user although I do rely on cannabis for some emotional stability soooo...... I generally only put 60-100mg in the size 1 cap which leaves room for about 6-10 drops of MCT oil administered with an eye dropper. I've never been able to force more than 200mg of dried ground herb into a size 1 cap. I use the caps twice a day but only one cap per dose.
This always puts me in a comfortable place. Onset is sometimes a bit inconsistent (I dare say possibly due to stomach content) but generally comes on within 30-60 minutes. The effects are longer lasting than any other modality if ever used. Rather than the typical linear ramp up to a peak and then a steady decline, the effect is fairly stable with only mild ebbs and neaps. Only after about five hours is there a noticeable, gentle decline.
The last batch I made, I used lecithin for the first time. I added it to the MCT oil at a rate of about 20% solution. Added to an indica herb, I noticed no appreciable difference. Added to a sativa blend, I'm having to work really hard to convince myself that it wasn't actually a bit detrimental to the effect. I may revisit this combination with the addition of a chill cycle.
I recently shared this process on another forum. One individual moved up to a size 0 cap on his third use and had a very bad trip. Made me feel very bad so I offer a word of caution.