SubCool Supersoil In SIPs With EWC, CBD Autos For Aspergers

Hi everyone. Sorry I don't have time to read right now. I hope to catch up later.
Right now I have to break open SIP buckets to get the bucket. I was going to make a separate thread for reconditioning soil. Is that what I should do? Or what should I do?

Part of me wonders how much of the super soil these plants really used. Because these were some nice healthy autos, but I used to grow big 5-6 foot photo fem bushes in 5 gallons of soil.
Earlier I saw how buds buddy (I'm not sure what his tag is) was growing big bushes in his 5 gallon SIP containers. So I wonder how much of this super soil is really spent. Does that make sense?

because I know this is only 3.75 gallons of soil, -1 inches of earthworm casting and a center scoop solo cup of regular soil so maybe 3.5 gallons? But the only deficiency I noticed on the last grow was nitrogen. And Dr. Bronner's soap, and some BTI, haha 😆
 
cbdhemp808 said:
I'm guessing it will be an impressive result in the SIP bucket w/ the super soil.:thumb:
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They really grew! It was way better than cloth pots. (I think my real problem before was aeration, and a bad local base mix. Now I have imported soil 😂 )
 
I'm no SIPer, but my sense is that you'll get some great growth for a length of time w/ the super soil, especially with the abundant water of the SIP, and then you'll use up the nutes in the super soil, and then start fertigating. At that point, the growth continues and you'll be just fine. With autos you don't need to worry about the timing of veg-to-flower, but you do still need to give bloom nutes (P, K) as well as some N, during flower.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
I'm no SIPer, but my sense is that you'll get some great growth for a length of time w/ the super soil, especially with the abundant water of the SIP, and then you'll use up the nutes in the super soil, and then start fertigating. At that point, the growth continues and you'll be just fine. With autos you don't need to worry about the timing of veg-to-flower, but you do still need to give bloom nutes (P, K) as well as some N, during flower.
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Yeah, the only thing I had to add before was Nitrogen, CalMag, and ReCharge and Molasses once a week. It seems like I was always adding nitrogen. But no real deficiencies other than N.
 
CBDMed said:
Yeah, the only thing I had to add before was Nitrogen, CalMag, and ReCharge and Molasses once a week. It seems like I was always adding nitrogen. But no real deficiencies other than N.
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What's your P and K source? And what's the molasses for? I think I've probably mentioned to you before... virtually all molasses contains high amounts of heavy metals. Those will wind up in your resin.

The plants are heavy feeders going into full flowering, and they need plenty of P and K.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
What's your P and K source?
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The original Subcool Supersoil (which is the cheapest combination I have access to) formula is:

8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil, which is Roots Organic, below)
25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings (I lean toward the high end as wc are dirt cheap here and I love the WC flavor).
5 lbs steamed (cow) bone meal
5 lbs bloom bat guano
5 lbs blood meal (I am always running short on N).
3 lbs rock phosphate
¾ cup Epsom salts
½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
½ cup azomite (trace elements) (I use some kind of generic rock flour, and double it 'cuz it is generic.)
2 tbsp powdered humic acid (which are unnecessary because of all the WC)

The Roots Organic base soil is: Lignite, coco fiber, perlite, pumice, compost, peat moss, bone meal, bat guano, kelp meal, greensand, soybean meal, leonardite, k-mag, glacial rock dust, alfalfa meal, oyster shell flour, earthworm castings and mycorrhizae.

This time it will be spent as "Roots Organic" soil, but the GeoFlora left a nice thick cake layer of semi-decomposed flavorings that I am sure will make the recondition just as tasty.
And then for subsequent batches I can add the Roots Organic Terp Tea to restore the flavor.

cbdhemp808 said:
And what's the molasses for? I think I've probably mentioned to you before... virtually all molasses contains high amounts of heavy metals. Those will wind up in your resin.
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Yes, I remember you mentioning it.
Emilya recommended top-watering with molasses and ReCharge (Mikrobs) once a week. Several other members have also suggested the same. I am still "monkey see, monkey do", but I think the idea is to give the plant lots of microbes.
Come to think of it, I never did find out if you are supposed to brew the molasses and ReCharge to make a tea and then aerate for 18 hours, or if you just mix it, pour, and go.

I guess my question about molasses is, is it really that bad for you?? I have been prescribed molasses by more than one natural doctor, so I am not real clear why it would be bad, if it is an ancient home remedy.
I Googled, "Is molasses bad for you?" and the only results said it is beneficial...
Am I missing something?

cbdhemp808 said:
The plants are heavy feeders going into full flowering, and they need plenty of P and K.
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I understand. My goal is to build enough P and K into the soil so that the plant has enough without having to supplement too much.

My two supersoil plants on the roof were cut short due to bud rot, so I do not know how the supersoil run would have gone, but I imagine autos will do just fine with supersoil.
I used to grow 5' bushes with a 5G cloth pot of subcool's, and if I recall, only the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 was supersoil. (So I am sure autos will do just fine.)

If they had 7G or 10G SIPs and I had money, I would get them for photos.
But I do not, so as it is, I will probably try flipping when the plants are 1/2 height for an indica, and 1/3 height for a sativa.
And if I really run out of space, I can hang the lights directly from the bamboo rack. (I just do not want to run out of nutes in the buckets, and be fighting trying to feed my girls...)


I can get a liquid PK-13/14, and for fun and flavor I can use Azi's banana peel tea, but I think it is K, and you never really know how strong...
 
CBDMed said:
The original Subcool Supersoil (which is the cheapest combination I have access to) formula is:
• • •
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I'm sure your supersoil is great. What I'm talking about is the subject of fertigating, and it was sounding like you were intending to fertigate when the supersoil was "used up". I also use a supersoil-type medium, and I would say by mid-flower – depending on pot size and how long in veg – the soil needs additional nutes via fertigating with an N source, and also P & K. I use solution-grade Langbeinite, so that give K, Mg, and S. I also top dress with seabird guano mixed in water for P. I guess I was under the impression that SIP is usually a fertigation system.

CBDMed said:
Yes, I remember you mentioning it.
Emilya recommended top-watering with molasses and ReCharge (Mikrobs) once a week. Several other members have also suggested the same. I am still "monkey see, monkey do", but I think the idea is to give the plant lots of microbes.
Come to think of it, I never did find out if you are supposed to brew the molasses and ReCharge to make a tea and then aerate for 18 hours, or if you just mix it, pour, and go.

I guess my question about molasses is, is it really that bad for you?? I have been prescribed molasses by more than one natural doctor, so I am not real clear why it would be bad, if it is an ancient home remedy.
I Googled, "Is molasses bad for you?" and the only results said it is beneficial...
Am I missing something?
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Molasses is traditionally known as being good for us, partly because it contains iron. The problem is, molasses these days contains heavy metals which are definitely bad for us. The reason for this is that sugar cane and sugar beets, which is what it's made out of, contain heavy metals from fertilizers that are applied to the crops. This happens with both conventional and organically grown crops. I think all molasses sold in the U.S. now has the California Prop. 65 warning on it, because of this.

So, when you give molasses to the plants, it winds up in the resin. If that resin is then concentrated in the form of rosin, extract, RSO, etc., then you've got a too-high concentration of these heavy metals. I'm not clear as to the toxicity if the resin is not in a concentrate form.

CBDMed said:
I understand. My goal is to build enough P and K into the soil so that the plant has enough without having to supplement too much.
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That's exactly what I do, but by mid-flower (typically) they need supplementation. Now there's a subtle point here, and that is, there's a happy medium whereby you add the right amount of nutrients, and not too much, to your soil mix. Because you can have nutrient burn if you add too much. I think this pretty much implies you will need to supplement at some point in the grow. The bigger the pot size, the longer the plant can grow in a healthy way, before needing supplementation. If the pot is really big, then you wouldn't need supplementation. That's how I see it.

:morenutes:
 
If you're still considering molasses for your plants, you might want to give this a read:

Does Molasses Improve Soil and Plant Growth?

Should you add molasses to your garden and compost pile? Does it feed the microbes and is it necessary? Is it good for yo0ur plants?
www.gardenmyths.com
 
cbdhemp808 said:
I'm sure your supersoil is great. What I'm talking about is the subject of fertigating, and it was sounding like you were intending to fertigate when the supersoil was "used up".
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Ahh.
Sorry if I was not clear.
cbdhemp808 said:
I also use a supersoil-type medium, and I would say by mid-flower – depending on pot size and how long in veg – the soil needs additional nutes via fertigating with an N source, and also P & K.
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Yes, I went with supersoil for two reasons. One is it is the cheapest LOS I can get here, but the other is that by premixing I hope to slash maintenance time.
If I had to grow them big, my preference would be 7G or 10G SIPs, which I do not have, and also have no time to build DIY.
I can hypothetically still grow them bigger in 5G SIP by top dressing or fertigatation, but I am wanting to reduce complexity and time.

I think a 5G SIP is plenty for an auto (mine just need N).
I think for photo sativa I can flip at around 24" for 48" total height should be fine.
I think for photo indica I can flip at around 32" for a 48" total height should be fine.
I think the buckets should support that with maybe only N supplementation (and I do not mind supplementing N).
And if I end up having to fertigate or top dress, them maybe we can flip them lower the next time?
My thinking is that it should work--and I can adjust as I go.

cbdhemp808 said:
I use solution-grade Langbeinite, so that give K, Mg, and S. I also top dress with seabird guano mixed in water for P. I guess I was under the impression that SIP is usually a fertigation system.
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I think it may have been intended that way, not sure. I got the idea of packing it with supersoil either from Buds Buddy or Emilya, I think. Not sure.
Seems to work good for the least cost and least maintenance.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
cbdhemp808 said:
Molasses is traditionally known as being good for us, partly because it contains iron. The problem is, molasses these days contains heavy metals which are definitely bad for us.
Click to expand...
Oh. :(
cbdhemp808 said:
The reason for this is that sugar cane and sugar beets, which is what it's made out of, contain heavy metals from fertilizers that are applied to the crops. This happens with both conventional and organically grown crops. I think all molasses sold in the U.S. now has the California Prop. 65 warning on it, because of this.
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Oh. And the local sugar cane and beets are typically GMO...
That means my agricultural molasses is maybe GMO??? :(

cbdhemp808 said:
So, when you give molasses to the plants, it winds up in the resin. If that resin is then concentrated in the form of rosin, extract, RSO, etc., then you've got a too-high concentration of these heavy metals. I'm not clear as to the toxicity if the resin is not in a concentrate form.
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Oy... :(
cbdhemp808 said:
That's exactly what I do, but by mid-flower (typically) they need supplementation. Now there's a subtle point here, and that is, there's a happy medium whereby you add the right amount of nutrients, and not too much, to your soil mix. Because you can have nutrient burn if you add too much. I think this pretty much implies you will need to supplement at some point in the grow. The bigger the pot size, the longer the plant can grow in a healthy way, before needing supplementation. If the pot is really big, then you wouldn't need supplementation. That's how I see it.

:morenutes:
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Yes, I was thinking something very similar.
Ideally, you WANT to run out at the end, and have to supplement, so that when you recondition you do not have too much.
That is precisely why I was complaining that I think the autos did NOT use up all of the nutrition...
Because if you keep adding a full re-load of NPK each time, you will accumulate, and it will get toxic (so you WANT to run out of everything each time, and with the autos I did not...)....
So that was my question, what do I do??
:hmmmm:
 
Hola a todos. I am having fun sprouting beans.
I do not know if you can tell this under this lighting, but a few of the buckets (1/3?) seem to be developing what looks like a green algae. Is it a problem? And if so, how do treat it?
All the buckets should be basically the same (Subcool's original supersoil with DynoMyco and biochar, with the anti-larva mosquito-dunk water).
I do not recall having green algae before... :(
Any ideas?
green.jpg
 
Is that a clear plastic bucket you're growing in? Cover it up! That will protect the roots (which die in light) as well as the stop the algae from growing.
 
InTheShed said:
Is that a clear plastic bucket you're growing in? Cover it up! That will protect the roots (which die in light) as well as the stop the algae from growing.
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Awesome, 👏 👏 👏 thank you, Shed!

One more question please. I read some people saying somewhere that sometimes when seeds pop up quickly, they are the most vigorous ones. Does that seem right?

I'm having fun popping beans. I'm trying to put them in the ground without the presoak, like @Kefka recommended. and it's not going great. I've had to pull three already, and there's still a few buckets with nothing above ground.
I'm going to try it a little bit more, but 10 or $15 a seed, I might go back to soaking Seeds first if nothing changes soon.

The issue is, some of the seeds are coming up but they don't look too good. I had three girls die already. They kind of lay their head sideways there on the dirt, and it's like they fade and never did recover, or pick up and get strong.

So I am not sure what I'm doing wrong. I tried misting the soil with one or two squirts every few few hours, unless it looks wet or damp (in which case I give it nothing).
As soon as I see signs of life (such as a bulge or a helmet head or little leaves, I stop the watering, so as not to give it too much moisture. It seems like there is moisture down there. Cutting the additional water too early??

I don't know, but it seems like it should be OK. All I am doing is sticking a seed in the soil and then keeping the soil damp (but not wet). (A guy would think that Seeds might want to germinate in warm damp soil…)

I am still hopeful that this one might make it. The next few days should tell the story, whether she gets stronger, or whether she fades away. (I hope it is the former.)

image0.jpeg
 
I've never tracked vigor against sprout timing so I have no idea there. I also don't plant directly in soil so I'm afraid I won't be of much help. I've always had great success doing it the same way I always have so I can't see any reason to modify my methods.
 
Well, at $10-15 a bean (all told), I am going back to pre-soak...
I have been thinking a lot about photo cloning methods lately. @bluter had one where he cuts and sticks into perlite 1/4" above the waterline, or something, and he had big old shaggy roots coming off of it, with no cloning gel, and seemingly very little effort (is that the bluter trademark? 😂 )
Instead of the Least Effort Principle, we could call it the Bluter Principle? 😂 (I am sure many other people practice it also.)
 
I clone that way if I'm not in a hurry. It can take some of my cuttings up to a month to grow roots but if works eventually on most varieties. Some just won't root in a hydro environment and need soil, which is what I use when I need clones faster.

I use a full cup of perlite with a small drain hole drilled about an inch up from the bottom (like a small hempy pot). The cutting goes in with the end right at the waterline, and I usually add water (until it drains) every couple of days to keep it from getting stagnant.

Then it's just patience!
 
yeah hempy cloning is pretty simple and near bullet proof. you can transfer to any media at up pot. most of my friends locally now do it that way.
if you have two spaces it becomes a no-brainer as you can add clones to the veg room at any time with the other plants.
 
Ok, I think I am finally seeing the wisdom of photos and cloning. Autos are great for certain things, but I miss the yield of a full-size plant. Especially if I can clone without gel ( because they say it can be toxic i've got enough health problems already…, haha 😆 oy...

The hempy cloning cup thing sounds perfect. It sounds easy. And low maintenance.
Usually there are all kinds of shoots to take off the growing photos early on, and that will probably make a good routine is to stick them in a hempy cloning cup.
(Autistic people like solid routines, a lot, as they simplify or avoid stressful decision-making 😂 )

:thanks:

I think maybe I can start photos the next grow.
About this X-percent-spent super soil, I'm thinking maybe I should just go ahead and mix up a normal batch, or maybe I could go a little bit light (90% normal) so as not to make it too hot.
Then because it will be photos, the girls should eat up all the nutrients in her little 3.75G bowls, and in the end I will have to supplement--but that's OK, because that way the super soil does not keep getting hotter and hotter and hotter with each grow?
And this way I do not need to send the soil out for expensive testing before I recondition it? Because I'm planning on running out all of the nutrients in the cup, and then having to supplement?
Does that sound fully baked?
(Or only half baked? Haha 🤣)

Also we are using a lot more perlite. I think subcool recommended something like 20%, and I have been using something like 45% perlite, so even if this batch is a little bit hot, it should still work out?

EDIT: I'm just guessing the trick is to keep good notes on what I do, so as to identify what is going on from batch to batch (even though I will be popping different kinds of seeds for a while?)

I guess I can probably supplement with Dude's Terp Tea Bloom and urine.
Probably it would not hurt me to look around and see what else I can find, just in case, if I am knowingly planning on running the plants out of Nutrients.
There is a very limited selection of nutrients in country, but there should be something good in Colombia, even if it is imported.


EDIT 2:
Is that Master Crop a liquid or a solid?
It occurs to me I'm going to want some kind of liquid to feed the clone cups
Sorry if there's typos, my last iPad did great on voice dictation. I'm not sure why but this one is very finicky

EDIT 3:
I think the simplest thing would be if I kept detailed notes for each garbage can full of super soil. That way I know what's going on with each can.
You would think there would be no problems with super soil, but we already know that is going to be a laugh and a half 😂
 
Ok, ✅ let me see if I can figure this out.
I never reconditioned super soil before, and I've got probably less than a dozen grows, so I'm way open to feedback.
The original recipe for subcool calls for eight each 10 gallon bags of soil. If I recall correctly I copy and pasted this off the Internet and then printed it out, and this is what I've been using.
It is the original formula, there is supposed to be a new and improved formula, but I have access to these nutrients locally in country, and it's the cheapest all around way to go (by about a factor of three).
It should also hypothetically be the least maintenance, as long as I do not make my so hot that I kill the grow.

IMG_2616.jpeg


So, if you divide by eight, you end up with what they recommend to mix a "small batch", which is only one 10 gallon bag's worth, which is probably a lot easier all things considered.

IMG_2617.jpeg


My thoughts:
I love earthworm castings, so I go with the 6 gallons. And that makes up for whatever chemical salts are used, because we are bringing in fresh humus with each recondition 😂
As I see it, I have two main options.

The first option is that I can use the normal amount of nutrients in reconditioning the soil. This will undoubtedly make the soil just a little bit hot, but that could be OK, because the plan is to use it in SIP containers which hold about 3.75 gallons. And from the grows that buds buddy was doing before, the plants would run out of Nutrients, and he had to supplement at the end. So as long as the soil is not so hot that it burns the plant, it should be OK. (And then on the next grow it should be back at zero.)

The second option is that I can reduce the nutrient amounts just a little bit, to make sure that the soil is not so hot that it burns the roots. Meaning, I would have to guess what percentage I wanted to reduce things.
So, maybe say instead of a cup and a half of bloodmeal, I would use one and a quarter cups, or something like that.

I'm completely open to ideas. I have never reconditioned super soil before.
The simplest thing would be just to use the normal amounts, but I'm concerned the soil might be a little bit too hot (no idea really, I just don't want to burn my poor little plants and lose a grow).
I think if I reduce the amounts just a little bit, to where it's like 85% to 95% of the normal amounts, then I will not burn the plants roots.
You guys probably know much better than me how hot of soil is too hot, versus how much plants really like.

I would appreciate hearing any and all feedback, thank you.
 
No clue on recipes but I do recall that @ReservoirDog (hope he's okay) uses 40% perlite specifically for SIPS.
 
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