Stunger's Organic Soil Stealth Balcony: Landrace Mulanje & Other Sativas

[Stunger]

That's a great consolation prize! Stunger, I hope the lesson that gets learned (or remembered) by most from your Mulanje experience is how to accept a negative with class and grace. Your positivity is infectious. Always seeing the upside and making sure the people you visit feel it too. It's really impressive, bravo. I don't know that I could be as gracious as you have been.

Here's another upside - look how happy the balcony girls are now that they can breathe a little easier!!!

Thanks Jon! 3 is a more manageable number of plants to have on the balcony, but of course still gutting to lose the Mulanje.

When you did your spraying for catapillers (BT was it) do you think theres a chance it might have messed her up? I cant help but think if it was wet as get out, windy etc, is there a chance she could have ended up with a concentrated amount at her feet? Or possible ingestion from the open wound caused by the tie trauma?

I have a mate, good mate, an arbourist, and have given him some help from time to time. After way more than a decade his understanding of trees is quite phenomenal, and I was reminded of a conversation we had regarding pruning.

I was pruning some fruit trees and bushes using improper technique. The result were sites, wounds, that held open for an extended time, instead of quite quickly repairing and closing.

His words kind of rung in my ears, that very normal things, like moisture, insects, sprays, disease etc can have a huge effect on a plant in a very short time. His description was based upon us, if you close up after surgery properly, you minimise the internal exposure to outside threats. So that water you wash yourself every day is fine on your skin, but can be a problem if theres enough trauma at the wound site.

Even good old rain water in very small amounts can ruin a bloody big tree.

I didnt notice anything in your pics but maybe the open site wasnt quite as innocuous as might be presumed.

And I was thinking that pest spray might be a culprit, it died in something like root failure, or accelerated lockout, maybe she got shutdown by taking in some chems in her innards?

Thanks DV8! You raise some very good points. From only my own experience and reading, I don't believe there is anything negative about spraying BT on the plants. I have done so equally on all the balcony plants, and previous years too. But I think you are quite correct over wound sites where small things like water can enter and allow infection to follow. Next grow I will revise my training approach and I'll certainly be changing to softer garden wire, or even plastic coated electrical wire as you suggested.

But your thoughts make me reflect, that this grow I had been more generous with the plant's watering. I felt emboldened enough to be more generous thinking that by doing so, I would create much more even wetting of the soil and any extra would soon be lost due to the pot's many drilled holes. But now, I wonder, if the more generous watering when combined with damage may have allowed some pathogens as you suggested to negatively effect her. It is just a thought, but I now no longer feel as comfortable about watering so generously even though the other 3 plants seemingly have done fine. For now, I will go back to my previously more restrained watering.

Well, except for the Mango Sherbert. She doesn't look like she's feeling the love!

Hey @Stunger , are you going to drought the others too? Seems like your great experience before, and then the fully watered but not as potent round the next year, probably makes you want to, or no?

Cheers Azi! Yes the Mango Sherbert is the only one of the 3 currently being drought stressed. The other 2 are still some way behind her, but assuming the Mango Sherbert goes well, I intend to introduce droughting to them also.

@DV8 if BT in excess amounts could be a systemic toxin, and could enter through the roots or through a wound, that could be worth looking into. I've never worked with BT, but I bought a quart of it just recently after reading how my friend Stunger has been using it and thought I might give it try this year. Now maybe I won't do that. Info on that would be appreciated, and all BT-users would probably be grateful. I was thinking BT was harmless...

Thanks Emeraldo! I sure the BT is harmless.

@Stunger please correct me if I'm wrong but I understood your 4 plants were all in the same conditions, soil, care, environment -- including BT applications -- with the sole exception of the recent top dressings the Mulanje received prior to dying. I'm not sure anymore if the other 3 plants were top-dressed in the same way, and if they were it only proves the point.

Yes same conditions, soil, etc, the lot. I believe I mistakenly chased the Mulanje's isolated yellowing with the last lot of top dressing I gave her, but prior to that the other plants had very much the same top dressing, included the left most one on the balcony, which is half Mulanje crossed with Malawi/Ethiopian.

But in any event the other 3 plants were not affected, which might point to the Mulanje herself as reacting in a way that other plants in the same conditions did not. I'm still going on the theory that Dubi (ACE Seeds breeder) has indicated, that certain tropical sativas do not do well with high or even medium levels of nitrogen. Genetics need to be taken into account in a case like this.

This year I hope to grow some haze plants that are tropical sativas (Purple Haze x Malawi, Super Malawi Haze, Super Lemon Haze, Arjan's Haze #1, Michka). Am heeding Dubi's advice and learning from my own and others' mistakes. Mixed up a batch of soil last fall that leaves out all but a very low level of N. Will start a new thread on that grow when it gets going.

Next time I will leave out the top dressing and let her grow from the soil.

This ^^ is my guess. I think he loved her to death.

Thanks Azi, haha, yes or chased her to death with top dressing!

Hey Koro. Sad to see the Mulanje go early. Nice consolation to get seeds off her though.

Thanks DD! It is a bummer, but all part of the learning experience. When in my comfort zone of just several year ago, I was barely getting 2oz off a plant. It is always a concern changing something, but that is also how we get to improve things, with a few backward steps every now and then as we go the wrong way, haha!

The silver lining....^^

Sorry to hear about the Mulanje...that had to be a gut punch, but nice to find out she's not a total loss!

Thanks Carcass! Nevermind, as long as I can learn something and adapt what I am doing so I reduce the chance of such an occurrence happening again.

Have you considered letting her ride just a tad bit longer? Longer than you would normally let it go? Maybe another 2-3 weeks? Maybe just save a branch to harvest later. Worth a try.

Cheers BA! When I harvested the Mango Sherbert last year in mid April, it was already several weeks over the breeder's harvest recommendation, which as we know isn't set in concrete. But yes, I have no problem with letting her go longer if she is looking like she is fine with it and our Autumn/Fall weather is still good.

 

[Stunger]

I should have added that here, in Autumn/Fall, we can get periods of rain every day for 2 weeks. And that is a tough one. It's hard on the plants, especially if they've been well tended. It's then like no sun and dark for 2 weeks at 100% humidity and rain every day. During those periods when bud rot can so easy develop it can be better to take an earlier harvest.

 

[InTheShed]

Is it really possible to create sudden plant death from an overdose of organic nitrogen in flower? I would have thought you would get a bunch of other symptoms first at least.

 

[Stunger]

Update - Droughting day 8 after 2 cups of water, finger painting some Mulanje pollen, and some reflections on the Mulanje

Greetings 420 enthusiasts! I didn't anticipate updating so quickly, but it'd be silly not to document an attempt at outdoor 'droughting', and hopefully we can all learn something from it even if it is what not to do!

So here's another update today, to share a few photos of how the Mango Sherbert is doing. Remember at this point it is her 8th day of the droughting process that I have started with her at this stage of her late flowering. As you may have seen from my update yesterday when it was her 7th day of no watering, that she was showing close to severe draught stress, enough to hopefully be sufficient to shock her. After being watered freely all of her life, hopefully it has triggered a response from her. As I noted, yesterday evening I gave her 2 cups of water as a 'rescue drink' after 7 days of no watering. 7 days where there has been a lot of constant gusty winds, it must have been very drying for her in the drilled out pot without watering.

By the morning of her 8th day in this period of deliberate drought stress, she obviously was happy to have had the 'rescue drink', the 2 cups of water. She must have really appreciated that after 7 days of having none added, even the worms were escaping her pot to die on the stone tiles. But on the morning of the 8th day, she did appear to have revived a little bit from the state she was in the previous afternoon. But I determined at that point, that she had a sufficient shock to help trigger her to respond with making herself more resilient in case it happened again.

This is what she looked like on the morning of her 8th day with only 2 cups of water the previous evening

1

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

2

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

3

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

4

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

So at this point, early morning of the 8th day. I then gave her about 2 litres (half a gallon) of water with some customary worm wee, or more correctly, worm farm leachate.

One last usage this grow of the Mulanje pollen

After my recent harvest of the male Mulanje's pollen, I still had a bit of baking paper with some of his pollen left on it, so because the Malawi/Ethiopian x Mulanje is still only in early flowering and she's shooting out lots of fresh white pistils I used that remaining pollen to further re-dust her, by wiping my finger on it and carefully (as I could), and applying it to the same pre-pollinated stems that I'd done a while ago, because she most likely will still need at least another 5 weeks (weather permitting). I also gave some of the pollen to one more (previously 'un-done') stem because I think this could be spectacular.

For good measure, I also re-dusted the same stems, now quite thick with white pistils on the Honduras/Panama x Purple Honduras. As why waste it? I can't even be sure that it is viable until seed harvest day comes, assuming of course that I get these to their full flowering conclusion.

The last remaining unstored Mulanje pollen that I used to re-apply to the selected stems of the Malawi/Ethiopian x Mulanje & Honduras/Panama x Purple Honduras

5

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

After 2L (half gallon) of water, this is what she looked like this afternoon at about 1:30pm

6

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

7

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

8

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

And here, late afternoon about 5pm

9

• Stunger
• Mar 26, 2022

You can see that she has 'perked up' somewhat. At this point I will not give her further water until tomorrow morning at the earliest, when I re-evaluate how she looks and whether or not I'll 'shock' her with another day of no water, then maybe another 2L (half gallon) after that. This way she is double shocked, and presumably will be responding to this stress. I don't know what's ahead in the weather, but at this point I can see myself regularly watering her, but continuing to let her regularly wilt badly too. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

A reflection on the Mulanje

Something @DV8 said about the stress that could be caused to a damaged plant water by water or over watering, how it can make it become more difficult for the plant to successfully keep infection at bay. It got me thinking about how this year I have indeed been more free and generous with my watering (to all plants). I did this because I felt that the pots lose moisture quickly because of the holes drilled in them, plus the wind is often on the plants. I think that could be another reason that early February when the Mulanje was pretty badly blown around, it seems quite possible that the watering made it much harder for her to deal with, than the other 3 plants? I had watered more generous because I was attempting to ensure that the watering succeeded in being evenly taken up by the soil. I have previously found that when watering is light, that after harvesting, the roots can be seem to not be 'even' in their filling of the pot, I have assumed that the initial repellent nature of dryish soil is for the water to either run off, or run down preferred channels within the soil. Anyway, I am now abandoning this generosity of watering, and I will now resume leaving them 'wanting a little'. The Mango Sherbert of course is currently in a droughting phase of her late-flowering.
Anyway, cheers for dropping by, keep well, and may your gardens be bringing you joy!

 

[ChocolatChunk]

Better late than never the saying goes.
Great journal Stunger, them plants are looking killer too I love the technique with droughting. That is a big thing for serious growers. I try to let them go as dry as possible for longer periods and find that really drives the extra oil production we look for.
Unfortunately, I had that create a bad mite outbreak before they favor the dryness. I see you put a net over your pot thats a good idea to keep leaf litter and birds out from eating your worms too lol
Very clever

 

[ChocolatChunk]

I seen mentions of BT being toxic to plants I can't say that is true to established plants from my experience but I think is what just helped mold up my small pots and partly claimed my seeds I was looking forward to growing.
I sprinkled a fair amount of it there to kill the gnat larvae I seen.. Stupid me should have just watered with a heavy peroxide solution.
Far as we as humans know it does make toxins and I should have known better for it being a strain of bacteria. We live and learn though. Plenty more seeds to start!

 

[Azimuth]

I then gave her about 2 litres (half a gallon) of water with some customary worm wee, or more correctly, worm farm leachate.

What are you using for a dilution rate with your 'worm wee?' I know it can be too strong to use straight up.

 

[ChocolatChunk]

I seen someone saying sudden death from N excess late flower... Even early flower it can kill a plant. I gave all my girls way too much organic nitrogen and it was lights out for a few plants. I used gelatin but way too much created a strong odor of ammonia but also didnt penetrate the soil so well and made a bunch of mold grow. I sprayed it and flushed, had to accept the buds they made at least I had majority of the seeds ripen. Needed the room to free up anyways. Another live and learn from CC LOL

 

[Stunger]

Great journal Stunger, them plants are looking killer too I love the technique with droughting. That is a big thing for serious growers. I try to let them go as dry as possible for longer periods and find that really drives the extra oil production we look for.

Thanks CC!

Unfortunately, I had that create a bad mite outbreak before they favor the dryness. I see you put a net over your pot thats a good idea to keep leaf litter and birds out from eating your worms too lol

Pests and weather are all variables that can so easily disrupt our plans.

I seen mentions of BT being toxic to plants I can't say that is true to established plants from my experience but I think is what just helped mold up my small pots and partly claimed my seeds I was looking forward to growing.
I sprinkled a fair amount of it there to kill the gnat larvae I seen.. Stupid me should have just watered with a heavy peroxide solution.
Far as we as humans know it does make toxins and I should have known better for it being a strain of bacteria. We live and learn though. Plenty more seeds to start!

I had never come across any mention of BT being toxic to plants before, but in saying that, I hadn't looked for negative reports because I'd always only read of it's usefulness to other growers at countering caterpillars. It is something I have used on several grows without noticing anything negative from it. But given the earlier point by @DV8 on water and contaminants when a plant is healing, it seems likely that problems can be caused if spraying lands on areas where the plant is trying to heal itself from damage.

What are you using for a dilution rate with your 'worm wee?' I know it can be too strong to use straight up.

Hi Azi, I have been adding worm wee to my plants waterings for at least 3 years. Worm wee is a term commonly used, but 'worm farm leachate' is probably more correct. Each day I give the worms mostly fruit peel/rind scraps that I store in a glass bowl that is topped with water from the morning's porridge pot, as the worms also like oats, which apparently encourage them to breed. Most of the worm wee is just water from the feedings that has leached down through the worm beds and collected. Each day's collection is usually around a cup and a bit, which I add entirely to 8-10L water in a 10L (2.5 gallon) watering can, so it is fairly diluted in the scheme of things.

After the outdoor 'offseason', I usually have a lot of worm wee leachate saved and I use it more generously until it is used up. So currently at this point the plants are close to 6 months old and they are now only getting the small amount of leachate produced each day because that's all there is. Cheers.

I seen someone saying sudden death from N excess late flower... Even early flower it can kill a plant. I gave all my girls way too much organic nitrogen and it was lights out for a few plants. I used gelatin but way too much created a strong odor of ammonia but also didnt penetrate the soil so well and made a bunch of mold grow. I sprayed it and flushed, had to accept the buds they made at least I had majority of the seeds ripen. Needed the room to free up anyways. Another live and learn from CC LOL

Well excess is excess, and mostly we learn those lessons by experience I guess. It is a bummer when we get them wrong! Cheers.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Azi, I have been adding worm wee to my plants waterings for at least 3 years. Worm wee is a term commonly used, but 'worm farm leachate' is probably more correct. Each day I give the worms mostly fruit peel/rind scraps that I store in a glass bowl that is topped with water from the morning's porridge pot, as the worms also like oats, which apparently encourage them to breed. Most of the worm wee is just water from the feedings that has leached down through the worm beds and collected. Each day's collection is usually around a cup and a bit, which I add entirely to 8-10L water in a 10L (2.5 gallon) watering can, so it is fairly diluted in the scheme of things.

After the outdoor 'offseason', I usually have a lot of worm wee leachate saved and I use it more generously until it is used up. So currently at this point the plants are close to 6 months old and they are now only getting the small amount of leachate produced each day because that's all there is. Cheers.

Thanks @Stunger , I don't add any water to my worm bin so my leachate comes out a bit more concentrated than yours it sounds like. I've never given it to my girls, instead I top dress dress with a layer of castings and cover that with a layer of leaf mold, and have used the leachate to wet newly mix soil batches or my compost pile.

Maybe I'll rethink that given the success you seem to have with yours. Can never have too many microbes in the mix I suppose.

 

[Stunger]

Thanks @Stunger , I don't add any water to my worm bin so my leachate comes out a bit more concentrated than yours it sounds like. I've never given it to my girls, instead I top dress dress with a layer of castings and cover that with a layer of leaf mold, and have used the leachate to wet newly mix soil batches or my compost pile.

Maybe I'll rethink that given the success you seem to have with yours. Can never have too many microbes in the mix I suppose.

Thanks Azi, from feeding the worms their daily scraps from a bowl that includes little more than a cup of water, my leachate is quite 'watery' when compared to previously when I would feed them dry, and once a week or so I would give them a flush of maybe 4L (1 gallon) and the resulting leachate would be quite thick and dark with a lot more worm casting particles.

I have always added it to the plant's waterings because I had read of others praising it, and I thought it would be a good way to 'enhance' the tap water with some 'biology' after I have let it 'sit' overnight to hopefully to off-gas any Chlorine or the like. It is what I have done for about 3 years from seedling to harvest, and so far it seems to be good without any reason to stop.

 

[cr8grow]

Stunger…Dropping by and will catch up. Cheers

 

[ChocolatChunk]

Good stuff!!!

 

[Stunger]

Stunger…Dropping by and will catch up. Cheers

Thanks for dropping by @cr8grow!

Good stuff!!!

Thanks CC! Hey, you should go into your signature and add your journal link to it.

 

[Stunger]

Update - Drought day 9 for the Mango Sherbert, mostly pictures, trichomes and pistils

Greetings 420 enthusiasts! This morning the Mango Sherbert was looking pretty hammered by the 'drought' she's been under.

Mango Sherbert

After an initial 7 days day of no watering and a lot of wind. She has had 1 'rescue drink' of 2 cups of water on her 7th day evening, and about 2 litres of water on her 8th day morning. Her soil now on her 9th day has pulled away significantly from the walls of her pot, it isn't easy to see in the picture but at least a 1/2 inch. Her lower leaves are looking quite tired, wilted and some are quite tatty looking.

1

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

2

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

3

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

Droughting outdoors is tricky when all of a sudden the afternoon heat hits, I think indoor droughting will be free from this sudden environmental change. But considering today's afternoon heat to come, and given that in spite of 2L (half gallon) yesterday her soil is still pulling away, I decided to give her a second 'survival drink' of about 2L (half gallon) of water.

This is her later in the day, about 4pm

7

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

What I want is nicely 'resinated buds', I feel they are on their way!

4

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

5

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

6

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

Honduras/Panama x Purple Honduras

8

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

9

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

10

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

Malawi/Ethiopian x Mulanje

11

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

12

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

13

• Stunger
• Mar 27, 2022

Anyway, that was the picture today, thanks for dropping by. Be well, and may your herb be lovely!

 

[ChocolatChunk]

Mulanje more like mu-loooong bud
Yes, I should do that I was wondering how to do that.
I have a 710 mango going on the side right now and their blueberry og that should be interesting always wanted to grow a mango strain.

 

[ChocolatChunk]

That mango sherbert is looking tasty and the others of course but wowzers Loving the pics! Thanks for the tip!

 

[DV8]

Im struck by those Sativa leaning girls mate, seems from those shots to have the Mango way ahead.

I kinda havent really looked until these last lot of shots. You did get a couple good pics of the Mango colas before now though so I knew she was heading for home.

How long on the other 2 if you had to guess? Feel like theyve been at it a while

 

[Stunger]

Im struck by those Sativa leaning girls mate, seems from those shots to have the Mango way ahead.

I kinda havent really looked until these last lot of shots. You did get a couple good pics of the Mango colas before now though so I knew she was heading for home.

How long on the other 2 if you had to guess? Feel like theyve been at it a while

Going by the breeder notes the Mango Sherbert is already ready. But I intend to harvest her in 2 - 3 weeks.

The Honduras/Panama x Purple Honduras, just going from looks 4/5/6 weeks maybe?

And the Malawi/Ethiopian x Mulanje looks to have the most to go. I really don't know, but I am guessing it could be even longer than the Hon/Pan x Mul. It's going to be interesting how supportive the weather is.

 

[ChocolatChunk]

Aye, she looks like she will go a long time. Very healthy looking plants with picture perfect stacking and the colas on that mango it must smell so good. What are your smelling I have a lip smacker and has a sherbert parent and strawberries and cream parent smells like both which is super sweet and sweet very sweet like a candy but sherberty with strawberries and cream. Might be a male it's pretty stretchy but I should have a girl in there too or just gotta get one going if I dont