SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

Krissi Carbone said:
You're a master grower in the making!

Thanks to Azi for starting up this club!

Oh and @Azimuth that bigger girl in the back with the vegetative plants is my Blueberry Autoflower in Pre-Flower. Thats why shes so large in comparison to the others

Figured I would come in and update my older girls again.

I am a soil based grower, FFOF. I do use plenty of soil amendments along with the use of my self-feed/water reserve pots. I top dress once a month with these same amendments that are added into each transplant: bat and seabird guano, earthworm castings, @DYNOMYCO, and now bone meal as well.

I can't say that everything these girls do is because of the pots but they sure do help with their overall health.

These particular Super Silver Crack photoperiods and Deelite autoflower are all sitting under the @Mars Hydro SP3000 so we are only using 300W to get these girls praying all the time. They are fed @Prescription Blend nutrients and received Humboldt's Flower Stacker at the start of week 2 of flower.

The health of these plants from the get go with these pots and their ability to feed on their own will has just increased with the use of the proper amendments and feed schedules.

Now at 75 Days from seed and 25 days flower, The Super Silver Cracks: Mo and Larry

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

Super Silver Crack-Grow Journal

What's Crack-A-Lacking Grow
Super Silver Cracks and a Deelite Autoflower under the...
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@Krissi Carbone , those photos look fab!
Now I see where your dreams and thoughts of flying elephants come from! (Hahaha.)
:smokin:
 
Buds Buddy said:
Might be a dumb question, but I have to ask..... What is FN Fertilizer ?
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FN Fertilizer™ (Farside Nutrients Fertilizer) is a concoction of my own devising. I have all the raw salts and blend them to meet the ppm per element targets I desire. There's instructions and weights of each salt over in my other threads.

For my SIP grow I'm using Osmocote as my base fertilizer instead of my usual FN A, FN B, and FN Micros. I'll be using FN Special K (a Potassium and Sulfur supplement) and some Cal-Mag once they hit Bloom. My previous experience with Osmocote showed that on its own, it will not support a blooming Cannabis plant.
 
Apologies, my brain won't shut off sometimes. In my mind, keeping a full reservoir would wick water to a certain level and reach a point of saturation, good or bad? If you let a reservoir deplete, the point of saturation would move down in relation to the water in the reservoir, then move back up when full, thus going up and down and possibly affecting the roots. Good or bad? Main question is this. Is it better to keep reservoir constantly full or drain and fill? Or, am I overthinking this and fill it at my leisure as long as it doesn't get empty.
 
That's really only an issue at the beginning. Once the plants grow a bit they start to drain the reservoir regularly, at least in the buckets . @ReservoirDog has much larger totes that last him several days.

But I think it is the air gap that allows for a wetter mix.
 
Gidorah said:
Apologies, my brain won't shut off sometimes. In my mind, keeping a full reservoir would wick water to a certain level and reach a point of saturation, good or bad? If you let a reservoir deplete, the point of saturation would move down in relation to the water in the reservoir, then move back up when full, thus going up and down and possibly affecting the roots. Good or bad? Main question is this. Is it better to keep reservoir constantly full or drain and fill? Or, am I overthinking this and fill it at my leisure as long as it doesn't get empty.
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I'm filling my res twice per day so it doesn't stay full long at all. about 6-8 hours max & it needs refilled. The last week or two they seem to slow down on drinking as much & the res lasts about 12 hours or so before it needs to be filled.
 
Azimuth said:
That's really only an issue at the beginning. Once the plants grow a bit they start to drain the reservoir regularly,
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Thanks Az, I'm getting there, gotta fill the reservoir about every 3rd day.

Buds Buddy said:
I'm filling my res twice per day so it doesn't stay full long at all. about 6-8 hours max & it needs refilled.
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Thanks Buds. Been following your journal, you are the one that has inspired me to try SIP'S, hope I can grow half the plant you can grow!

Thanks everyone, "life's a garden, dig it"
 
el gringuito said:
@Krissi Carbone , those photos look fab!
Now I see where your dreams and thoughts of flying elephants come from! (Hahaha.)
:smokin:
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They were flying green monkeys but I'm sure in my stoneder mind, ill have some green flying elephants in another dream sometime this week :rofl:

:passitleft:


This thread is great btw Azi, so many contributions, it's great to see the success from so many!
 
Gidorah said:
Apologies, my brain won't shut off sometimes. In my mind, keeping a full reservoir would wick water to a certain level and reach a point of saturation, good or bad? If you let a reservoir deplete, the point of saturation would move down in relation to the water in the reservoir, then move back up when full, thus going up and down and possibly affecting the roots. Good or bad? Main question is this. Is it better to keep reservoir constantly full or drain and fill? Or, am I overthinking this and fill it at my leisure as long as it doesn't get empty.
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I dunno if you really want a solution or not, but along with autism, I also have some ADHD (and racing thoughts).
Andean tobacco snuff or "heart of tobacco" paste sounds gross, but it really does it for me.
Quiets the mind right down.
(I had always been against tobacco, and could never imagine taking snuff, but I was amazed.)
(Your mileage may vary.)
 
Krissi Carbone said:
They were flying green monkeys but I'm sure in my stoneder mind, ill have some green flying elephants in another dream sometime this week :rofl:
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Hahaha, with those sativas, you probably will!!

Krissi Carbone said:
:passitleft:


This thread is great btw Azi, so many contributions, it's great to see the success from so many!
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Yeah, great thread, Azi!
Thanks for bringing people together for a common good.
 
ReservoirDog said:
Edit: for clarity and some further instructions.

Add pre-dampened/moistened soil with 40% perlite to bucket. (if dust-fart dry some mixes can become hydrophobic and absorb moisture unevenly). Do not create layers of perlite or other additives. No manures other than worm castings, unless amounts are less than 1 cup in total. Limit compost to 1 cup/gallon. With manures you are likely to create a nitrogen soup in the reservoir attractive to death-dealing microbes. Compost holds a great deal of moisture, but SIPs self-water so this retentive quality is not needed and we are more concerned with not holding too much moisture. That is why 40% perlite is critical. Strictly moderate your compost. Hard, I know.

24 hours before transplanting small seedling or planting germ'd seed FIll reservoir to allow the grow matrix (soil, or peat/perlite pre-mixes like ProMix, Sunshine Mix #4) to absorb water. After 24 hr even if top 1/2 inch is dry you will see moisture below that and that is all you need or want. The idea is for there to be only 1/2 full reservoir or less remaining after 24hrs of absorption.

After 24 hours confirm system has absorbed half or more than half of the approx one gallon of water the reservoir holds. If reservoir is over half full after 24 hrs simply wait for evaporation to take place over a few day before planting. You do not want to plant with reservoir over half full after initial absorption.

After minimum 24hours absorption and confirmation that reservoir is half to 1/3 full then proceeded with planting. I, and Octopot whose manual I am paraphrasing, do not recommend starting seedlings or seeds in a system that has reservoir over half full.

Why? Because advantage of the system is that plants can revert to their natural root building 'scheme' in a container with a moisture gradient. Normal container growing cannot recreate a moisture gradient, thus its inferiority compared to proper SIP growing. But it dependent on grower to appreciate this requirement and understand some basics. Such as: When reservoir is full a gradient still exists, however, the difference in moisture level between top and bottom is less so than when the reservoir is less full. Germ'd seeds and seedlings require the extra "hint" that best conditions lie below, deep below, and will expedite a taproot to go deep when the gradient is obvious. Maintain these levels for two weeks.

The above information should answer your questions about top watering frequency because there's nothing you can do that destroys the moisture gradient and the plant's ability to perceive its existence more than top watering. Common sense. You have a "self watering' pot with a reservoir. Never water your plant any other way unless it is fully mature and even then you need a good excuse, like the need for a certain input, s special fertilizer or some such. My SIPs are totally dry in first 1-3 cm, this is normal and good. Mulch if it scares you but it won't hurt plant and will reduce fungi/mold/bug threats. It's not about the roots "hitting the reservoir" like DWC, they are getting oxygen and food/water in the soil matrix if its well aerated (40% perlite) and you have overflow hole drilled. It's about 'hydrotropism" and the huge efficiencies that delivers over the plants in traditional container gardening because SIP plant is in a comparatively steady-state, and not bouncing back and forth between the compromised states of soaking wet, and almost dry. Time-lapse comparisons confirm this. SIPs grow steadily, constantly. Traditional containers grow right after watering, then pause through the dry-out we must impose in that system to wait for water to come again.

Yes, when you transplants a seedling, or a germinated or un germinated seed you need to water it in with less than a pint/liter of water to close any air gaps immediately around the plant/seed, but that is all. If you top water again, esp. in the next 2-3 weeks, you will significantly slow development. You do not need to top water, ever nor should you unless you are applying a special input that you'd rather not have in the reservoir.

Also, if you are creating a seedling for transplant, plant it before 5th node, after 2nd node is fine. Also, even before its in a SIP, bottom water your seedling while it's developing to kickstart its "moisture gradient" muscle memory.

Lastly, transplants of mature plants from a container over 3 gallons are not recommended. No advantage will accrue as the plant is unlikely to any longer be able to access its genetic memory of moisture gradient-steered hydrotropism at such an advanced state of root development. It seems pot size is key here, however, so plants originally in pots smaller than 3 gal may still be successfully transplanted and will, after an adaption period, show intense growth. This is by no means preferable, however, to planting small seedlings or germed seeds as the adaption period of any mature plant can become painfully extended or even unending in rare cases.

Otherwise intelligent growers will argue some points above about planting germ'd seeds or seedlings, but, they're usually not experienced SIP growers and, again, this information I'm giving you is from a successful SIP-only company, developed by horticulture/agriculture PHds, following proven scientific principals that have practically proven themselves during product development and later customer use to work and be superior to other approaches. Octopot, in my humble estimation, is probably the best off-the-shelf grow system in the world, bar none, given what you must put in compared to what you get out. However, you can rest assured that these are SIP-specific principles, not merely Octopot-only rules. Do yourself a huge favour and go here to download their user guide. A great majority of the issues and questions you might have are addressed. Reference it constantly, it will not steer you wrong.

I personally plant 2-3 node seedlings into SIP as my preference but I am sure to bottom water these plants, very sparingly, from the first days after germination so they've already experienced a bottom-heavy moisture gradient before going in the SIP. If you grow seedling in normal container that's been top watered your seedling will be at a distinct disadvantage when transplanted, in particular the longer you wait.

Best of luck to you, feel free to PM me for discussion if you wish.
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Hey RD, this was so good I copied and pasted it to my own thread (so I would not lose it!).
This helped a lot.
Thanks.
:thanks:
 
<<TL DR scroll down to links>>

Ok, so Azimuth sees me using SIPS, says "Hey, I've got a club, all the cool kids are there, you should stop by...
That was Wed. I checked in, and "Yeah, when I have time"
Today, 8 pages of posts - Yeah Popular Club!
So, To Introduce - My Name's Pete, and I'm from Detroit (Duh!) (Actually Dearborn, aka Dearbornistan, but it's a first ring burb, so Detroit is close enough) WAYY BITD (Early 90s) roomie and I got burned for $100+ on a deal gone sideways, and we're all eff THAT, how hard can this shit be to GROW, I mean hell, we HAVE seeds... so we built a "grow tent" out of plywood, shelf planking, a space blanket couple of fluorescent fixtures, a radio shack fan, and off we went to the races. WAYYY pre-internet we were winging it, and grew some plants and got some bud...
Then I became a Driver for Ford, and quit smoking.
For years...
Fast forward - MI goes legal for Medical, a while back, and recreational like two years ago. So now you can go into any dodgy joint, and score some herb, but it's $$$ and of course the state throws a 10% dope tax in addition to the 6% sales tax.... and I'm all "man, whish I could get some SEEDS"
Bitched out loud on another forum, some guy shot me a link to Herbie's, and well here I am.
I'm about 4 weeks in to my 2nd grow (First is still finishing - and a long, strange trip THAT's been - links in sig) And somewhere in the middle of the first run, either Krissi (Above) and or Emilia Green was mentioning sips, it perked my ears. Grateful Bud sent me a link (similar to vids and ads posted above) that further intrigued me, did more research and "hey, I can MacGyver this... and off we go.
Setting up for First Grow, I had planned for a 6gal bucket (it was lying around, an old brewing bucket that needed to be replaced when I brew again anyway) for the photo type (longer time, more bucket needed) and 3.5s for the autos. Prolly should have made more dirt, and filled the auto buckets fuller, but hey, hindsight.
So.. what I assumed was 'typical' I drilled holes in the bottom of buckets for drainage, threw in some gravel (marble chunks, top dressing - need to find cheaper gravel) and soil mix (looked at Supercool's Super Soil, thought "too complicated, and too MUCH - my recipe is at the top of both grow blogs)
Then I learned about SIPS. Ok, too late for THIS batch of girls (NOT going to repot them, AGAIN in one case) but maybe we can hybrid something - and lo was born, Poor Man Sip... I went to HDespot, got some deep plant pans, and put the buckets in 'em see if they'd draw up the water... (I did bore holed in the sides of the bucket to provide air gap venting)
Well, apparently I didn't have enough dirt in the 3.5 pots, and it about drowned the (remaining) auto (full story ongoing, First Grow link, below) But the 6 gat became a monster. I've only top watered for 2 days to water in top dressed bloom ferts 2x in over a month, and she's totally taking over my root cellar Bloom Room. so, THAT's a Win for "stupid cheap, and EASY"

2nd grow, I planned on one photo, wound up w/ two, so made two "traditional" SIPs w reservoirs and fill tubes.
I am also trying out "Poor Man" Stupid Easy Auto on the 3.5 gals, and watching closely, also have a moisture / pH probe to help watch for drowning. So far, so good, but we're keeping an eye on it..

<<TL DR>> These are the links -
6gal bucket build, and result.. White bucket (Gold Leaf, aka Goldie) was originally set up same as green ones, again, First Grow link has all the deets.. )

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3.5 Gal bucket, for Auto, holes (3/8" 7/16"?) bored in bottom, for drainage

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3.5 Gal bucket, marble "top dressing" to help ensure drainage

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All buckets, all dirt

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Family Portrait

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Goldie, Living LARGE!!!

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Goldie, trimmed

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Goldie, slightly trimmed and opened up a bit

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Goldie, pre-trim

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Post trim

Ok, so for the True Sips, I took plastic coffee cans for the reservoir, some PVC for a fill stick (with a power steering funnel atop) Think I need to go to balsa stick to connect to the cork in the future, the wire just seems to vague...
Anyway, construction thread is here - Future builds will definitely be Maxwell, not Folgers - the flatter bottom was a good benefit.. Anyway - assemble the res assembly (letting glue dry) insert into bucket, drill 'air holes' approx. height of res top to allow air in/ excess water out, bury w/ perlite, blending in soil (wicking medium), fill w dirt.

Pete Detroit's 2nd Grow, Blackberry Kush Photoperiod In Soil, Also 3 High Sativa Autos

Ok, here we grow again... first grow is mainly winding down, 2 of three autos croaking it, the last one barely made it to harvest, and getting ready to switch the Photo monster over to bloom... so time to start the next run... "Star" of the show is Blackberry Kush photoperiod (from 420, same as...
www.420magazine.com

In both cases, I up potted from peat plugs directly to SIP, and followed Emilia's suggestions on how to properly water a small plant in a big pot. When I deemed them "Big Enough" I stopped w/ the top water, and filled the res.
BOTH plants experienced what can only be described as "Explosive" growth, doubling in 24 hours..
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And Rd 2... (Scroll the whole thread for full effect)

More like 3 days time lapse - apparently took her longer to kick in)
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For the record, I've got one in PMS at the moment, Seems to be drinking well from the "drip pan" and checked w/ probe today, good gradient w/ the moist in the bucket - I have hopes for this in a 3.5 format as well!

Ok, getting late (and happy hippy buzz fading to zzzz's) so I'm out. Hope you enjoy, and I will respond to comments! (Shokka, on this effing aggressively friendly site!)
Peace, OUT! - Pete
 
Welcome @Pete Detroit

I worked in Dearborn(istan) for a number of years. W Outer Dr and Monroe St area. Lived down in Toledo OH and made the drive daily. Moved to TN in 2009 and haven't looked back.
 
farside05 said:
Welcome @Pete Detroit

I worked in Dearborn(istan) for a number of years. W Outer Dr and Monroe St area. Lived down in Toledo OH and made the drive daily. Moved to TN in 2009 and haven't looked back.
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How DEE!!!
Sounds like Ford Country!
Not far from where I grew up, MI ave / Monroe area. Live off of Ford / Greenfield, across from the ice rink, if that means anything to you. Bit of a commute, to be sure, but hour ish is not uncommon (I like to keep it 1/2 or less, personally) even still, tho work from home is VERY common any more.
I hear TN tends to be nicer, views, weather, twisty rods to drive).
Thanks for the welcome / ping!
 
So I'm a little late to the party, but thought I'd jump in. I'm a SIP noobie, not the best grower, but starting my first grow in a self watering bucket, and it's coming along very nicely! I've been growing the same OG Kush strain for a while now, on my 14th seed, so I know how it typically grows, and this plant is doing really well. It is a bit starved for light, since I have two plants in veg and the bigger one is under a 100w LED, this one is only under a 40w LED. Over the next week I will put the bigger one into flower, so this plant will get the full lighting soon. In any case, here are the some pics:
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As can be seen, she is set up for some quad-lining and training will begin soon. She has looked overwatered most of her life, until now where she is starting to really put on some weight and looking nice and healthy. I'm starting to think I should have watered her less off the start leaving the reservoir a little lower until the plant has a chance to adapt to the bucket.

All in all I'm super happy @Azimuth put me on to this technique, it seems to have worked well so far!
 
Pete Detroit said:
Ok, so Azimuth sees me using SIPS, says "Hey, I've got a club, all the cool kids are there, you should stop by...
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Not sure I phrased it quite like that but, nonetheless, welcome to #SIP Club! :laughtwo: I think it's good to have a place those of us growing with these things can swap notes and ideas and generally show off some great looking plants.

We'd love to see some pics of the coffee can build if you'd be inclined. There are a few different ways to build these things and all seem to get the job done.

CannabisMan420 said:
So I'm a little late to the party, but thought I'd jump in. I'm a SIP noobie, not the best grower, but starting my first grow in a self watering bucket, and it's coming along very nicely!
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Well, by switching to this format you just became a much better grower. Most of that might be the bucket design but you should definitely take full credit! :thumb:

CannabisMan420 said:
All in all I'm super happy @Azimuth put me on to this technique, it seems to have worked well so far!
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Thanks for posting your pics, and Welcome to The Club! :thumb:

I think we still need to work out the early days with these pots. Very young seedlings and clones tend to look like yours in the first few days, droopy and overwatered, but then they take off. But we think there has to be a better way to start them off.

Some of the early thoughts while we work on experiments to hone it in are lower reservoir levels early on until the plant gets established, and/or maybe planting a plant that's a bit more established with a little better root system.

I just planted an older clone that has been sitting for a while in what I call Limbo Land (low light, low water, and very little nutes) on the 1st. I topped it before planting and it doesn't have very much new growth to be floppy, but it looks great. So this one has a combination of an established root system and only a partially filled reservoir. But, so far, so good! It's only been 4 days but I'm already seeing the new growth kicking in!

But honestly, once these things get going it seems kinda difficult to grow a poor plant if you keep up with your water filling duties.
 
Fenderbender said:
easy2grow_starter.jpg

Would this come down to the same thing? As it's sipping away from the bottom up as well
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Depends on how the container is built. Specifically does it have a built in air gap? I think that may be the system @bobrown14 uses. He grows some monster plants and leaves the garden for extended periods so even if it's not a SIP it seems like a great setup. :thumb:
 
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