SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Keffka]

Keep in mind that the Octopot PhD's recommend a non-soil (i.e. peat moss) based mix in their pots and so there is likely no advantage to top watering once the mix is wet, and they found that the moisture gradient was the ideal one to use.

@Emilya Green is using organic soil with Geoflora nutes and they recommend top dressing with them every two weeks and those require a wetting to activate them, hence her partial watering. Is that ideal? Probably not in the true mathematical sense of measuring a model and changing variables. Does it really matter all that much? Also probably not especially since it's only an every two week exercise for her.

For her it's a tradeoff, she wants to use an organic mix which requires wetness up top. And as far as I know, we don't know what the experiments were that lead to the "never top water" conclusion. For all we know bottom watering only was some small percentage better but in the world of black and white you always go with the better numbers if you are trying to maximize your outcome.

Did they test their pots with an organic mix, and if not would their results be different? We don't know so maybe @ReservoirDog or @Twalte will be better able to weigh in there. Bottomline is Em found a way to use an organic mix which is outside the recommendations of Octopot and to do so she needed to modify what they say is Best Practice for an entirely different media.

@Krissi Carbone 's pots don't have the reservoir capacity to properly fertigate her plants entirely from the bottom so top watering is required, and @Bill284 's mix with his perlite layers likely would not wick as well as a homogeneous one, but it provides excellent drainage and extra air which allows him to water much more frequently than is typically recommended.

I've built a lot of different variations on the SIP theme and can say that they all worked great, so this system is extremely forgiving. Is there some mathematical ideal way to do it? Probably yes, but from our experience it doesn't seem to be some huge difference in results with an occasional top watering.

Is top watering in these pots ideal? Probably not which is why we try to to it sparingly, but the results don't seem to be affected by much. Can you get great results by  only top watering? Don't know but I think @cbdhemp808 has an idea in mind that will likely test that out, but to my knowledge he isn't up and running with his design yet.

Az.. I don’t know what you do for a living, but you definitely should be in marketing or an RnD spokesperson.. The effectiveness with which you can hammer a question and somehow ALWAYS manage to mention SIPs (other threads obvs this is a SIP thread ) is just amazing

 

[Azimuth]

Hahaha, then I could never honestly post here!

Are you not growing bigger and better plants? Ergo, better plants from a better grower. You become a better grower simply by growing with these pots because of the magic in their design.

 

[Azimuth]

Az.. I don’t know what you do for a living, but you definitely should be in marketing or an RnD spokesperson.. The effectiveness with which you can hammer a question and somehow ALWAYS manage to mention SIPs (other threads obvs this is a SIP thread ) is just amazing

Well, I'm passionate about these things because of the improvement they've made for me and that I've seen in others. I know the frustration of poor watering practices and the meager yields that result. So, if I can suggest something that instantly makes someone a better grower with no learning curve for them, ima do it. Growing is simply more fun with these things because of the incredible results.

I hope I don't come across as "that guy" for whom a hammer is the answer to every question, but I  do believe it is a really good answer to the most common problem many growers, especially new growers, have and I want to make sure they are at least aware we exist and that there is an easy answer to their struggles.

Whether they choose to join us or not is up to them, and I recognize that SIPs are not for everyone.

 

[Keffka]

Well, I'm passionate about these things because of the improvement they've made for me and that I've seen in others. I know the frustration of poor watering practices and the meager yields that result. So, if I can suggest something that instantly makes someone a better grower with no learning curve for them, ima do it. Growing is simply more fun with these things because of the incredible results.

I hope I don't come across as "that guy" for whom a hammer is the answer to every question, but I  do believe it is a really good answer to the most common problem many growers, especially new growers, have and I want to make sure they are at least aware we exist and that there is an easy answer to their struggles.

Whether they choose to join us or not is up to them, and I recognize that SIPs are not for everyone.

I need a thesaurus, words consistently sound better in my mind until someone else points them out

I get it though, I’m the same way, if I see something, I’m gonna say something (if it’s educational, no snitching over here lol) because if I had something going on I would want someone to speak up.

Cheers Az! I can’t wait to see what this new year brings the SIP club!

 

[smokesbetter]

Shit I got 4 pages behind , think i will start over from here , Happy New Year ALL

 

[Azimuth]

Shit I got 4 pages behind , think i will start over from here , Happy New Year ALL

Happy New Year, Smokes. Glad to have you no matter where you are on your journey.

 

[CBDMed]

Keep in mind that the Octopot PhD's recommend a non-soil (i.e. peat moss) based mix in their pots and so there is likely no advantage to top watering once the mix is wet, and they found that the moisture gradient was the ideal one to use.

@Emilya Green is using organic soil with Geoflora nutes and they recommend top dressing with them every two weeks and those require a wetting to activate them, hence her partial watering. Is that ideal? Probably not in the true mathematical sense of measuring a model and changing variables. Does it really matter all that much? Also probably not especially since it's only an every two week exercise for her.

For her it's a tradeoff, she wants to use an organic mix which requires wetness up top. And as far as I know, we don't know what the experiments were that lead to the "never top water" conclusion. For all we know bottom watering only was some small percentage better but in the world of black and white you always go with the better numbers if you are trying to maximize your outcome.

Did they test their pots with an organic mix, and if not would their results be different? We don't know so maybe @ReservoirDog or @Twalte will be better able to weigh in there. Bottomline is Em found a way to use an organic mix which is outside the recommendations of Octopot and to do so she needed to modify what they say is Best Practice for an entirely different media.

@Krissi Carbone 's pots don't have the reservoir capacity to properly fertigate her plants entirely from the bottom so top watering is required, and @Bill284 's mix with his perlite layers likely would not wick as well as a homogeneous one, but it provides excellent drainage and extra air which allows him to water much more frequently than is typically recommended.

I've built a lot of different variations on the SIP theme and can say that they all worked great, so this system is extremely forgiving. Is there some mathematical ideal way to do it? Probably yes, but from our experience it doesn't seem to be some huge difference in results with an occasional top watering.

Is top watering in these pots ideal? Probably not which is why we try to to it sparingly, but the results don't seem to be affected by much. Can you get great results by  only top watering? Don't know but I think @cbdhemp808 has an idea in mind that will likely test that out, but to my knowledge he isn't up and running with his design yet.

A great and complete answer, Azi! Thank you!

 

[CBDMed]

Are you not growing bigger and better plants? Ergo, better plants from a better grower. You become a better grower simply by growing with these pots because of the magic in their design.

"How can one argue with logic like that?" Hahaha!

 

[Emilya Green]

I have made a tool that will make things much easier for me in my DIY tub and bucket sips. I have tried dowel rods with fishing bobbers to make a floating water level indicator, but nothing small enough to get down in the fill tube will make it float. So far I've only had a wooden dipstick to let me know where the water level in the rez is.

So I called on my ham radio and electronics engineering experience and created an electronic dipstick. At the top I have eight LEDs that indicate the level of the water and at the bottom I have sensors spaced at the points I wish to know about.

Here is the ground:

The wire at the very bottom is my ground and then another sensor is spaced one half inch above that. I start at 1/2 inch and move up to 3 in and then I go every inch above that.

It's not yet prettied up but the basic design prototype has been built and appears to be working well. In the future I will add a display panel that directly indicates the water level in inches and a switch to turn it off and on.

The top circuit board includes one LED for each channel with a 380 ohm drop resistor that makes it a good match for a 9-volt battery. I got fancy and added mounting blocks for the wires coming in.

The wires were run through the tube through holes drilled at the bottom at the appropriate places. The wire was stripped at the end and bundled into a ball that was soldered and then melted into the PVC at the appropriate place.

 

[Stunger]

You're gone into high tech mode now Emilya!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Is top watering in these pots ideal? Probably not which is why we try to to it sparingly, but the results don't seem to be affected by much. Can you get great results by  only top watering? Don't know but I think @cbdhemp808 has an idea in mind that will likely test that out, but to my knowledge he isn't up and running with his design yet.

I'm gonna do it man, but it's not high on my list. Right now I'm dealing with a lot of PM and other stuff. Does anyone know if solution-grade potassium sulfate, as a foliar spray, would kill PM and other mold? I tried ascorbic acid... seems to have done nothing, I don't know. Also, I've got young sativa regulars going crazy... when will they indicate sex?

 

[Hash Hound]

Who makes that one??

They were EcoGro pots bought about 7 yrs ago. Didn't work good at first, but now that I understand sips a little better so far so good.

less than 2 mins

there's about a one inch overhang at the bottom of the outer pot with air holes which I'm guessing is their air gap cause the res isn't that deep and holds just over a quart. You're supposed to water through the fill tube til it runs out those air holes, but that can get messy. I'm going to experiment with a siphon gravity feed this week.

eco-grow 2.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 1, 2023

 

[Stunger]

I'm gonna do it man, but it's not high on my list. Right now I'm dealing with a lot of PM and other stuff. Does anyone know if solution-grade potassium sulfate, as a foliar spray, would kill PM and other mold? I tried ascorbic acid... seems to have done nothing, I don't know. Also, I've got young sativa regulars going crazy... when will they indicate sex?

Hey CB, I've not had to deal with PM myself. But @InTheShed has had good results with using Citric acid. Here is a link to one of his posts about it --> here.

 

[lootznbootz]

I wanted to show my own examples of the roots that grow in the wicking foot style bucket.

Even when I recently checked tho I didn’t get pictures the roots seem to ONLY go through the wicking foot and reach out into the water pretty significantly
My wicking foot is packed full of vermiculite.
Roots seem to grow down there no matter how much water is in the res.
And as you can see lower than the 1 in airgap directly through the part of the foot that is always submerged.
Hopefully this is helpful.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Keep in mind that the Octopot PhD's recommend a non-soil (i.e. peat moss) based mix in their pots and so there is likely no advantage to top watering once the mix is wet, and they found that the moisture gradient was the ideal one to use.

@Emilya Green is using organic soil with Geoflora nutes and they recommend top dressing with them every two weeks and those require a wetting to activate them, hence her partial watering. Is that ideal? Probably not in the true mathematical sense of measuring a model and changing variables. Does it really matter all that much? Also probably not especially since it's only an every two week exercise for her.

For her it's a tradeoff, she wants to use an organic mix which requires wetness up top. And as far as I know, we don't know what the experiments were that lead to the "never top water" conclusion. For all we know bottom watering only was some small percentage better but in the world of black and white you always go with the better numbers if you are trying to maximize your outcome.

Did they test their pots with an organic mix, and if not would their results be different? We don't know so maybe @ReservoirDog or @Twalte will be better able to weigh in there. Bottomline is Em found a way to use an organic mix which is outside the recommendations of Octopot and to do so she needed to modify what they say is Best Practice for an entirely different media.

@Krissi Carbone 's pots don't have the reservoir capacity to properly fertigate her plants entirely from the bottom so top watering is required, and @Bill284 's mix with his perlite layers likely would not wick as well as a homogeneous one, but it provides excellent drainage and extra air which allows him to water much more frequently than is typically recommended.

I've built a lot of different variations on the SIP theme and can say that they all worked great, so this system is extremely forgiving. Is there some mathematical ideal way to do it? Probably yes, but from our experience it doesn't seem to be some huge difference in results with an occasional top watering.

Is top watering in these pots ideal? Probably not which is why we try to to it sparingly, but the results don't seem to be affected by much. Can you get great results by  only top watering? Don't know but I think @cbdhemp808 has an idea in mind that will likely test that out, but to my knowledge he isn't up and running with his design yet.

Doesn’t Bill top water only? I’m considering using his method is why I ask. CL

 

[lootznbootz]

I have made a tool that will make things much easier for me in my DIY tub and bucket sips. I have tried dowel rods with fishing bobbers to make a floating water level indicator, but nothing small enough to get down in the fill tube will make it float. So far I've only had a wooden dipstick to let me know where the water level in the rez is.

So I called on my ham radio and electronics engineering experience and created an electronic dipstick. At the top I have eight LEDs that indicate the level of the water and at the bottom I have sensors spaced at the points I wish to know about.

Here is the ground:

The wire at the very bottom is my ground and then another sensor is spaced one half inch above that. I start at 1/2 inch and move up to 3 in and then I go every inch above that.

It's not yet prettied up but the basic design prototype has been built and appears to be working well. In the future I will add a display panel that directly indicates the water level in inches and a switch to turn it off and on.

The top circuit board includes one LED for each channel with a 380 ohm drop resistor that makes it a good match for a 9-volt battery. I got fancy and added mounting blocks for the wires coming in.

The wires were run through the tube through holes drilled at the bottom at the appropriate places. The wire was stripped at the end and bundled into a ball that was soldered and then melted into the PVC at the appropriate place.

This is awesome I can’t wait to read the “How to water your SIP with electronic dipstick” by Emilya Green

 

[stardawg17]

Wishing #SIPClub a happy, safe and prosperous new year

 

[cbdhemp808]

@Emilya Green:

Cool! I am planning to use an Arduino when I add some fancy controls to my planned drying room (closet, thingy). I was thinking of Raspberry Pi, but Arduino has the particular ready-made sensors that I need.

I just realized there's an easy way to know height of water in a reservoir. There's such a thing as clear PVC tubing... all that's needed is a short piece with elbow coming out the side wall at the bottom (+ bulkhead).

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey CB, I've not had to deal with PM myself. But @InTheShed has had good results with using Citric acid. Here is a link to one of his posts about it --> here.

Thanks, I know about that one. I might try citric instead of ascorbic, but they are both around the same pH, I think.

 

[StoneOtter]

I have made a tool that will make things much easier for me in my DIY tub and bucket sips. I have tried dowel rods with fishing bobbers to make a floating water level indicator, but nothing small enough to get down in the fill tube will make it float. So far I've only had a wooden dipstick to let me know where the water level in the rez is.

So I called on my ham radio and electronics engineering experience and created an electronic dipstick. At the top I have eight LEDs that indicate the level of the water and at the bottom I have sensors spaced at the points I wish to know about.

Here is the ground:

The wire at the very bottom is my ground and then another sensor is spaced one half inch above that. I start at 1/2 inch and move up to 3 in and then I go every inch above that.

It's not yet prettied up but the basic design prototype has been built and appears to be working well. In the future I will add a display panel that directly indicates the water level in inches and a switch to turn it off and on.

The top circuit board includes one LED for each channel with a 380 ohm drop resistor that makes it a good match for a 9-volt battery. I got fancy and added mounting blocks for the wires coming in.

The wires were run through the tube through holes drilled at the bottom at the appropriate places. The wire was stripped at the end and bundled into a ball that was soldered and then melted into the PVC at the appropriate place.

You're on it there Em!