Short and bushy sativa hybrid with droopy leaves

[SmokingWings]

With that said, mind if I pick your brain and ask what you would do at this stage if the end goal is to ScrOG this plant?

I tried Screen Of Green for awhile. It works but I am not sure that it is the best method for getting more quantity of buds. Since you asked )) the first thing I did was build my screens so that each plant had its own screen and that it was anchored to the individual container. I had come across way to many msgs and blog pages about ScrOG grows where the gardener mentioned problems like having to trim old leaves from below the canopy or even just doing basic maintenance. If the screen is anchored to the tent it is not possible to move the plant around once the grower starts to weave the stems through the screen.

As mentioned above, I don't really have a lot of room to grow, maybe 70-80cm total, so there is no way I can just let her stretch out (seed supplier wrote 1-2M tall without any training). I was too unsure about LST in the beginning, so all I have done is top her above the 4th node.

Keep in mind that the 1-2 meter tall is what the breeder can get using their outdoor or indoor set-up. Their lights might be stronger or better. Most likely they are growing in larger pots whether it is soil or hydro and larger root systems tend to produce taller or larger plants. Just about every one of us will not get what the breeder gets the first grow we try.

The way around it is to grow the plant out to the sides and not up. If you topped once so far you should have two main growing tips. Using some of the Low Stress Training tip and bend those over and send each off to its own side.

Another thing to try is to let it grow up and then Super Crop the top if it gets to tall. Bend the top over using the High Stress Training of pinching, crushing and putting a sharp bend in the stem so that the stem is at a 90 degree over to the side. Some confidence and HST is easier to do than LST.

Or, shortly after the plant shows it is sexually mature put it into the flowering stage. Then if it gets too tall start training. You won't get as much since the plant will be smaller but it will give ideas to think about while starting the next plant.

 

[crono]

I tried Screen Of Green for awhile. It works but I am not sure that it is the best method for getting more quantity of buds. Since you asked )) the first thing I did was build my screens so that each plant had its own screen and that it was anchored to the individual container. I had come across way to many msgs and blog pages about ScrOG grows where the gardener mentioned problems like having to trim old leaves from below the canopy or even just doing basic maintenance. If the screen is anchored to the tent it is not possible to move the plant around once the grower starts to weave the stems through the screen.


Keep in mind that the 1-2 meter tall is what the breeder can get using their outdoor or indoor set-up. Their lights might be stronger or better. Most likely they are growing in larger pots whether it is soil or hydro and larger root systems tend to produce taller or larger plants. Just about every one of us will not get what the breeder gets the first grow we try.

The way around it is to grow the plant out to the sides and not up. If you topped once so far you should have two main growing tips. Using some of the Low Stress Training tip and bend those over and send each off to its own side.

Another thing to try is to let it grow up and then Super Crop the top if it gets to tall. Bend the top over using the High Stress Training of pinching, crushing and putting a sharp bend in the stem so that the stem is at a 90 degree over to the side. Some confidence and HST is easier to do than LST.

Or, shortly after the plant shows it is sexually mature put it into the flowering stage. Then if it gets too tall start training. You won't get as much since the plant will be smaller but it will give ideas to think about while starting the next plant.

Thank you for elaborating

I had been thinking a bit about the fixated structure you'd get from ScrOG, and whether or not it would end up causing more issues than it would solve. Most breeders I've seen swear by it though. Will have to keep your thoughts in mind when I get to the point of actually doing it (or not doing it).

So far, I've followed @Carcass advice, and plunged a few skewers with hooks into the dirt, to at least be able to train her a little. I also followed your advice and did some tucking, instead of pruning any fan leaves. Looks pretty good so far!

Regarding height, you're probably correct - it's just something I've had nagging in the back of my mind; What if it gets too tall! - But since I'm probably not growing under optimal conditions, it might not even become that big of an issue. All boils down to when I switch to flower I guess. Planning on leaving room for at least 2.5x growth, but SSH might not be the tallest strain of sativa(?), so maybe I can get away with 2x?

But then again, as you mention, I could always do some super cropping if things look like they're getting out of hand

I accidentally scraped the top branches when putting in the skewers, and looks like I bruised them a little - nothing rough, the plant ties just slid a bit and scraped off some of the little 'hairs'. Hope that's not a cause for concern.

 

[Carcass]

the plant ties just slid a bit and scraped off some of the little 'hairs'. Hope that's not a cause for concern.

It won't bother a thing, they don't even seem to notice...
Looks like you may already know this, but be reeaall careful with those little branches- they break off super easy at this stage...it doesn't bother the plant much, but it usually bothers the grower quite a bit..

 

[crono]

It won't bother a thing, they don't even seem to notice...
Looks like you may already know this, but be reeaall careful with those little branches- they break off super easy at this stage...it doesn't bother the plant much, but it usually bothers the grower quite a bit..

Glad to hear that

The skewer+hooks idea was pretty clever for the stage she's in - thanks for that tip! I'll make sure to be super careful when handling those fresh little branches too.

 

[crono]

Going to reuse this thread for updates.

@Carcass @SmokingWings
Hope you guys don't mind me pinging you

Got up this morning and spotted something odd on 2 of the 2nd set of true leaves. Some dark splotches on the center leaves.

Is this phosphorous deficiency, or what am I looking at here? They are very feint, but something is definitely going on here :S

 

[SmokingWings]

Got up this morning and spotted something odd on 2 of the 2nd set of true leaves. Some dark splotches on the center leaves.

Is this phosphorous deficiency, or what am I looking at here? They are very feint, but something is definitely going on here :S

It could be the very first signs of a calcium deficiency. Watch it for a day or two and not longer. Pay attention to whether whether it increases in size or gets a darker brown or bronze in color. If it is a calcium deficiency it is easy to take care of and has the bonus of helping build a stronger plant.

It is good that you were paying attention to your plant leaves. Most new growers either do not notice these little changes or they notice but ignore hoping the changes go away. Then when the problem is out of control they go online and say things like "it happened overnight". That is when it becomes a bit of a project to reduce and eliminate the damage.

Do a google search and use the words:
cannabis plant deficiency chart

The results should be several charts each from a different source. Plus you will come across the same chart but different sizes and quality of graphic. Download the best of each chart and keep as a handy reference. I look for the ones that fill the screen when I look at them and that do not get blurry if I click on them to make them larger.

 

[crono]

It could be the very first signs of a calcium deficiency. Watch it for a day or two and not longer. Pay attention to whether whether it increases in size or gets a darker brown or bronze in color. If it is a calcium deficiency it is easy to take care of and has the bonus of helping build a stronger plant.

It is good that you were paying attention to your plant leaves. Most new growers either do not notice these little changes or they notice but ignore hoping the changes go away. Then when the problem is out of control they go online and say things like "it happened overnight". That is when it becomes a bit of a project to reduce and eliminate the damage.

Do a google search and use the words:
cannabis plant deficiency chart

The results should be several charts each from a different source. Plus you will come across the same chart but different sizes and quality of graphic. Download the best of each chart and keep as a handy reference. I look for the ones that fill the screen when I look at them and that do not get blurry if I click on them to make them larger.

Thank you for taking a look at it.

I found and downloaded one of those charts. Will wait a few days and see how it develops. Can't do much anyways, since I just watered her yesterday.

On a side note - if it helps the investigation - the stems have a lot of purple/green candy striping on them and have been slightly purple since week 2. Not sure if this is part of the strain or a tell-tale sign. From what I can gather, neither SSH or Afghan are known for having purple striped stems. Some growers claim LEDs have a tendency to cause the effect. What's your take on that?

Also, she started smelling a lot. Not super bad - more of an intense growth smell, and usually just when I open the tent or sniff the exhaust of the inline fan. Sniffing close to the dirt gives a fresh growth smell. Some write that it's perfectly normal to have smells 4-6 weeks into veg, others write that there should be no smell at all in veg.

 

[crono]

Another little update.

The 2 bottom leaves are still withering - fast. First one has gone crispy and cracked near the tip.

I'm thinking it may be as @SmokingWings suggest, that it is calcium deficiency, and I'm somewhat attributing it to my PH meter maybe being a bit out of whack, or that I've been consistently watering with PH 6.3 water (with a few drops of cal/mag and Acti-Vera mixed in). From what I can see on the PH charts, calcium uptake seems to drop off pretty sharply below PH 6.5.

But since I watered her yesterday, I guess I'll have to wait with the next watering and just sacrifice those bottom leaves. The top 2" of soil is dry, but pot is still 15-20% heavier than when dried out - so maybe a fresh batch of PH 6.5 water wouldn't be too bad for her?

Just to reiterate; soil is 50/50 mix of BioBizz Light Mix and BioBizz Coco.

 

[Carcass]

others write that there should be no smell at all in veg.

I've had 4" tall seedlings stink up the whole room, so that "no stink in veg" thing isn't true...

Personally, I never worry about the original (first) leaves- more often than not, they end up
with odd symptoms that don't seem to affect the rest of the plant.
If the newer leaves start doing the same thing, then I'll get concerned...

 

[crono]

I've had 4" tall seedlings stink up the whole room, so that "no stink in veg" thing isn't true...

Personally, I never worry about the original (first) leaves- more often than not, they end up
with odd symptoms that don't seem to affect the rest of the plant.
If the newer leaves start doing the same thing, then I'll get concerned...

Haha, cool - got a very musky/earthy smell filling the room over the last 2 days. From what I've read now, that is exactly what to expect from SSH even at this stage (4 weeks).

About the first leaves; The 2 first true leaves withered after my overwatering a couple of days back (when I started the thread) - they ended up dry and crispy (and not receiving any light due to how bushy she is), so I trimmed them earlier today - also in hopes that it could offset some of the deficiency I was seeing on those newer leaves.

I did notice that some of the newer leaves popping up from the point of tipping had some damaged edges. It seems to have only affected 1-2 leaves and has not progressed any further than what is in this picture:

 

[Carcass]

leaves popping up from the point of tipping had some damaged edges.

That looks like the leaf was damaged just a little when it was real small, then the injury/scar grew with the leaf.
Nothing to worry about there.. great color on that little lady, too!

 

[Sueet]

If you are in coco, I don't think you are supposed to be letting it dry out ....

I can never recall tho, if biobizz light is actually a soil or not ... Hopefully someone who actually knows something will catch that and chime in.

 

[crono]

Looks like those 2 leaves are going to come off at some point. No chance of saving them. Hope it doesn't spread any further, but looks like the exact same thing that happened to the first 2 true leaves that I pruned. So, there is possibly a deeper underlying issue like PH imbalance/calcium deficiency, like has been suggested in the thread.

That looks like the leaf was damaged just a little when it was real small, then the injury/scar grew with the leaf.
Nothing to worry about there.. great color on that little lady, too!

Okay, won't worry about that then

If you are in coco, I don't think you are supposed to be letting it dry out ....

I can never recall tho, if biobizz light is actually a soil or not ... Hopefully someone who actually knows something will catch that and chime in.

Yes, Light Mix is a soil, but not super hot. I mixed it with coco because - well - I know nothing and thought it was a great idea, and figured it would cause less harm as I was seeding directly in the final pot.

I actually don't know if I should keep it moist when doing a 50/50 mix. I also read that coco should be kept moist like you say, but no idea if that would be the case in a 50/50 mix (yes yes, I know I should have just stuck to one medium!).

 

[SmokingWings]

Bought some light mix soil and coco from BioBizz and mixed them 50/50 into a 5gal pot, because I have no clue wtf I'm doing

Just to reiterate; soil is 50/50 mix of BioBizz Light Mix and BioBizz Coco.

Some of it now falls into place. The second comment helps put it together. At first I had thought that you found a "light potting mix" along the lines of a compost and peat moss mixture with some Petlite tossed in. Then you mixed that with the BioBizz Coco. That can look like a traditional soil, especially when damp, but it is not.

The final mix appears to contain no mineral or natural soils, compost or earthworm castings. The BioBizz Light Mix is a mixture of Peat Mosses with some Perlite added and a minimal amount of fertilizers.

When doing a search on what the ingredients for the Light Mix are this is one of the main answers and there is no mention of any sort of natural soil, compost, or earthworm castings. It seems to a medium to use for hydroponic style growing. From one of the websites that turned up in a search:
BioBizz Light-Mix is a 100% organic soil mix for maximum control of young plant life's development. Light-Mix main ingredients consist of Peat moss, Sphagnum peat and Perlite. Mixed together, these components provide optimal drainage throughout which is essential for use with automatic irrigation systems.

It does seem that it is intended for the first stages of a plant. It provides a loose fluffy texture great for early root growth and enough fertilizers to get the plant growing and developing a decent stem and canopy. Mixing in the BioBizz Coco Mix, which seems to be all coco coir, created what sounds like a nice hydroponic style grow medium.

I figure you can continue to use what you have but switch over to hydro methods from here on out. A bit of a learning curve as far as the watering schedules go for this sort of mix. Plus a fertilizing schedule has to be worked up including frequency and which nutrients and amount to be used at which stage of growth.

Maybe we can get some suggestions from @013 and @Bill284 as to which way to go and what is involved. One is a soil grower and one is a hydro style, Between the two of them they can toss out info and tips to help.

I have been fascinated with hydroponic styles of growing and have read up on the many methods, etc but I grow in a soil mix as far as my Cannabis plants go. Actually all of my active growing is in soil. I have plenty of plants growing in a Peat Moss and Coco mix of one kind or another but those are flowering plants I rescued off the curb on trash days. They are being switched over to soil mixes once they recover from what they went through before I found them and that can take a couple of years.

 

[Bill284]

Some of it now falls into place. The second comment helps put it together. At first I had thought that you found a "light potting mix" along the lines of a compost and peat moss mixture with some Petlite tossed in. Then you mixed that with the BioBizz Coco. That can look like a traditional soil, especially when damp, but it is not.

The final mix appears to contain no mineral or natural soils, compost or earthworm castings. The BioBizz Light Mix is a mixture of Peat Mosses with some Perlite added and a minimal amount of fertilizers.

When doing a search on what the ingredients for the Light Mix are this is one of the main answers and there is no mention of any sort of natural soil, compost, or earthworm castings. It seems to a medium to use for hydroponic style growing. From one of the websites that turned up in a search:
BioBizz Light-Mix is a 100% organic soil mix for maximum control of young plant life's development. Light-Mix main ingredients consist of Peat moss, Sphagnum peat and Perlite. Mixed together, these components provide optimal drainage throughout which is essential for use with automatic irrigation systems.

It does seem that it is intended for the first stages of a plant. It provides a loose fluffy texture great for early root growth and enough fertilizers to get the plant growing and developing a decent stem and canopy. Mixing in the BioBizz Coco Mix, which seems to be all coco coir, created what sounds like a nice hydroponic style grow medium.

I figure you can continue to use what you have but switch over to hydro methods from here on out. A bit of a learning curve as far as the watering schedules go for this sort of mix. Plus a fertilizing schedule has to be worked up including frequency and which nutrients and amount to be used at which stage of growth.

Maybe we can get some suggestions from @013 and @Bill284 as to which way to go and what is involved. One is a soil grower and one is a hydro style, Between the two of them they can toss out info and tips to help.

I have been fascinated with hydroponic styles of growing and have read up on the many methods, etc but I grow in a soil mix as far as my Cannabis plants go. Actually all of my active growing is in soil. I have plenty of plants growing in a Peat Moss and Coco mix of one kind or another but those are flowering plants I rescued off the curb on trash days. They are being switched over to soil mixes once they recover from what they went through before I found them and that can take a couple of years.

Treat it like soil.
But put calmag in the water first every time.
Add nutrients according to the schedule.
Then set ph to 6.3.
Water until you get 10% runoff every time.
Next run use soil or straight coco.
Don’t mix both.
It’s going to need to dry but coco can retain some moisture.
You may have to learn to read the plant for watering.
Dry period will be effected depending on the volume of coco or percentage of coco really.
But it’s basically a hybrid soil grow.
Hope that helps a little.




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[crono]

Some of it now falls into place. The second comment helps put it together. At first I had thought that you found a "light potting mix" along the lines of a compost and peat moss mixture with some Petlite tossed in. Then you mixed that with the BioBizz Coco. That can look like a traditional soil, especially when damp, but it is not.

The final mix appears to contain no mineral or natural soils, compost or earthworm castings. The BioBizz Light Mix is a mixture of Peat Mosses with some Perlite added and a minimal amount of fertilizers.

When doing a search on what the ingredients for the Light Mix are this is one of the main answers and there is no mention of any sort of natural soil, compost, or earthworm castings. It seems to a medium to use for hydroponic style growing. From one of the websites that turned up in a search:
BioBizz Light-Mix is a 100% organic soil mix for maximum control of young plant life's development. Light-Mix main ingredients consist of Peat moss, Sphagnum peat and Perlite. Mixed together, these components provide optimal drainage throughout which is essential for use with automatic irrigation systems.

It does seem that it is intended for the first stages of a plant. It provides a loose fluffy texture great for early root growth and enough fertilizers to get the plant growing and developing a decent stem and canopy. Mixing in the BioBizz Coco Mix, which seems to be all coco coir, created what sounds like a nice hydroponic style grow medium.

I figure you can continue to use what you have but switch over to hydro methods from here on out. A bit of a learning curve as far as the watering schedules go for this sort of mix. Plus a fertilizing schedule has to be worked up including frequency and which nutrients and amount to be used at which stage of growth.

Maybe we can get some suggestions from @013 and @Bill284 as to which way to go and what is involved. One is a soil grower and one is a hydro style, Between the two of them they can toss out info and tips to help.

I have been fascinated with hydroponic styles of growing and have read up on the many methods, etc but I grow in a soil mix as far as my Cannabis plants go. Actually all of my active growing is in soil. I have plenty of plants growing in a Peat Moss and Coco mix of one kind or another but those are flowering plants I rescued off the curb on trash days. They are being switched over to soil mixes once they recover from what they went through before I found them and that can take a couple of years.

Treat it like soil.
But put calmag in the water first every time.
Add nutrients according to the schedule.
Then set ph to 6.3.
Water until you get 10% runoff every time.
Next run use soil or straight coco.
Don’t mix both.
It’s going to need to dry but coco can retain some moisture.
You may have to learn to read the plant for watering.
Dry period will be effected depending on the volume of coco or percentage of coco really.
But it’s basically a hybrid soil grow.
Hope that helps a little.




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

Thank you both for this valuable input!

I'll go with real soil next time I think. Thought I was real clever mixing 50/50, haha - seems to only cause more confusion. Live and learn I guess

Not sure I'm quite ready to switch to hydro just yet.

So, if I understand correctly, I should start upping the amount of nutrients and supplement cal/mag every time I water this plant from now on, and basically treat it more (not completely) like a pure coco medium, since the nutrients in the peat moss (Light Mix) will have all but depleted by now?

 

[SmokingWings]

Treat it like soil.
But put calmag in the water first every time.
Add nutrients according to the schedule.
Then set ph to 6.3.
Water until you get 10% runoff every time.
Next run use soil or straight coco.
Don’t mix both.
It’s going to need to dry but coco can retain some moisture.
You may have to learn to read the plant for watering.
Dry period will be effected depending on the volume of coco or percentage of coco really.
But it’s basically a hybrid soil grow.
Hope that helps a little.

Since there is no mineral soil, compost, worm castings or anything similar to what we traditionally call soil in the mix I was trying to figure out what options "crono" had. The BioBizz Light Mix is two different types of peat moss and some Perlite with a limited amount of fertilizer added to get seedlings and young plants going. That was mixed 50/50 with BioBizz Coco Mix which is all coco coir if I read the company's web site description right.

In the end, I feel it is a hybrid hydro grow medium of peat and coco.

So, if I understand correctly, I should start upping the amount of nutrients and supplement cal/mag every time I water this plant from now on, and basically treat it more (not completely) like a pure coco medium, since the nutrients in the peat moss (Light Mix) will have all but depleted by now?

Figure out how much water needed each time and adjust the fertilizer doses accordingly. Example is if a quart is needed then use 1/4 of the gallon dose. That way there is no waste and no need to keep an excess batch of a fertilizer mix that might go bad within a day or two.

Put the Cal-Mag in the water first and shake or stir it in. Let the water rest for several minutes; some say for 5 to 15 minutes so the Calcium blends in properly. What happens when the other fertilizers go in first the Calcium afterwards then the Calcium will bond with those nutrients and from compounds that are not as helpful.

If it was a regular soil & peat mix or soil & coco mix the micro-organisms would work with the organic materials to help breakdown the 'insoluble' portion of each nutrient into 'water soluble' which makes it available to the plant.

I'll go with real soil next time I think. Thought I was real clever mixing 50/50, haha - seems to only cause more confusion. Live and learn I guess

You are not the first and not the last. Most of us have done the same thing or something similar. Part of the fun and/or interesting part of gardening/growing plants is the experimenting we end up doing because we are so clever.

 

[crono]

Since there is no mineral soil, compost, worm castings or anything similar to what we traditionally call soil in the mix I was trying to figure out what options "crono" had. The BioBizz Light Mix is two different types of peat moss and some Perlite with a limited amount of fertilizer added to get seedlings and young plants going. That was mixed 50/50 with BioBizz Coco Mix which is all coco coir if I read the company's web site description right.

In the end, I feel it is a hybrid hydro grow medium of peat and coco.


Figure out how much water needed each time and adjust the fertilizer doses accordingly. Example is if a quart is needed then use 1/4 of the gallon dose. That way there is no waste and no need to keep an excess batch of a fertilizer mix that might go bad within a day or two.

Put the Cal-Mag in the water first and shake or stir it in. Let the water rest for several minutes; some say for 5 to 15 minutes so the Calcium blends in properly. What happens when the other fertilizers go in first the Calcium afterwards then the Calcium will bond with those nutrients and from compounds that are not as helpful.

If it was a regular soil & peat mix or soil & coco mix the micro-organisms would work with the organic materials to help breakdown the 'insoluble' portion of each nutrient into 'water soluble' which makes it available to the plant.


You are not the first and not the last. Most of us have done the same thing or something similar. Part of the fun and/or interesting part of gardening/growing plants is the experimenting we end up doing because we are so clever.

That's super helpful. Thank you for taking the time to dig into it a bit more. I was really convinced that Light Mix was an actual soil.

Also didn't know about the cal/mag needing to rest for a bit before mixing in other nutrients. I'll keep that in mind for future feedings. Quality info right there

And you're right about part of the fun being experimenting - with that said, it feels a bit jarring when you do something wrong because you thought you knew better. Also getting a bit emotionally attached to the plant, and really want to see it through to the end. It's a really weird feeling for a tech-nerd like me

 

[HashGirl]

Good morning crono
Here's a link to a training thing I did awhile back- It shows in detail how I train my plants to keep them short and wide. I've grown around 15 plants in my 2'x2'x48" space, and the tallest one was 26" tall, and yielded over ten ounces..You'll see that plant in the training pics...You'll notice that I left the fanleaves on on this one, because they weren't very big, so I was able to work around them..

There are definitely other ways to do it, but this is what works for me-look it over and see what you think..
And best of luck on your grow!

A very special Thank You to @HashGirl for putting this list together:

HashGirl's Summer 2022 Grow Journal

Oops, I forgot about the Magnums. They were harvested on August 17 and trimmed on September 1. I removed a lot of bud rot and when I trimmed, I mixed both plants together for a total yield of 54 grams. Here are the results and the pics: Magnum 1 Days in Veg - 31 Days in Flower - 82 Final...

www.420magazine.com

Thanks, Carcass. I've also saved it to a blog, which can be found here.

 

[crono]

Minor update:

I fed her yesterday and went to have a look this morning. Things are looking.. well.. you be the judge.

The 2 center leaves that were withering have completely lost their vigor. Their sibling leaves were showing slight brown spots yesterday, but doesn't seem to have progressed a lot since I fed her. Will see how it looks when I get home from work.

But, I may have come in a little too strong with the nutrients, as it appears that some of the newer leaves are turning bright green with a tint of yellow.

Here's what I fed her:
2.5L of PH 6.3 water
2ML BioBizz cal/mag
4ML BioBizz Grow
5ML BioBizz Acti-Vera

Ended up with approximately 10% runoff as suggested by @Bill284 .