Radogast's First Indoor Seed Grow - In Search of Mothers

Radogast said:
Until a couple of weeks ago I had no idea there were at least 4 different strains going by the name White Widow.
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Yea thats why i asked. There are so many breeders claiming they have White Widow. I knew Shantibaba created the first Widow strain way back in the early 90's when he was back with Greenhouse Seed co. Kind of why i decided to go with this specific breeders Widow. Having talked to KingJohnC about strains, he pointed me to Shantibaba's "black Widow" which claims to be his original genetics of the white widow strain but named this as GHSco is selling the Widow strain as White Widow.. After careful reading i'm lead to believe that Shantibaba of Mr Nice Seed bank is in fact the true creator of the White Widow strain. However, my version from Greenhouse seeds looks pretty similar to the Widow that was intrroduced by Shantibaba back in '95
 
your buds just look like they need to fill in now. Like you said they've stopped stretching, they will start to stack up and fill in now. My widows didn't grow very tall, mainly cause the breeder stated they were a short and stout plant. Yours look lovely and had some nice stretch to them.. They should fill in really nicely in the next 4 weeks before the chop!
 
Regarding yellow leaves, I had what looked like Magnesium deficiency in advanced stage appear overnight on a Monday. So I put in lower PH water and doubled the flower nutes to hang on until Saturday when I could buy call-mag. Then on saturday the hydro store was closed. So I checked the local nursery, and Lowe's and tractor supply company and the local hardware store. So I send my wife in to the hydro store while I am at work, but I dont tell her to get cal-mag but I tell her to get the BioBizz top-max nutes because they fill out my Bio-Bizz grow and flower. By now I don't have the spotted and yellow centered leaves but I have yellowing fan leaves especially lower and losing 10 per day.

I'm waiting for the cal-mag to work and I dont read the label until Sunday and find out that the micronutes and secondary nutes in top-Max ASSIST in the uptake of cal-mag and I still need cal-mag so it is now week 4 before I apply the cal mag.
Now finally I can stop worrying because I have enough leaves staying on the plants and news leaves starting that my girls will live to harvest.

So I'm less worried than I have been in weeks :)
 
Greenthumb J said:
Yea thats why i asked. There are so many breeders claiming they have White Widow. I knew Shantibaba created the first Widow strain way back in the early 90's when he was back with Greenhouse Seed co. Kind of why i decided to go with this specific breeders Widow. Having talked to KingJohnC about strains, he pointed me to Shantibaba's "black Widow" which claims to be his original genetics of the white widow strain but named this as GHSco is selling the Widow strain as White Widow.. After careful reading i'm lead to believe that Shantibaba of Mr Nice Seed bank is in fact the true creator of the White Widow strain. However, my version from Greenhouse seeds looks pretty similar to the Widow that was intrroduced by Shantibaba back in '95
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From.what I read in the great names in cannabis section of the 420 magazine website, Shantibaba had to leave the Genetics of all the "White" strains developed since he Joined what was now becoming Greenhouse Seeds. GHS had rights to White Widow because that was his major contribution as the head grower when they formed the business together and GHS had rights to the White Widow name. So they are BOTH the authentic White Widow.

The wife went to Amsterdam seeds unaware of the White Widow story because Jorge Cervantes listed them as a quality seed company on a website a couple years back and they still had a good reputation as a seed seller. I have no idea if I am growing the "real" White Widow, but YOU are :) One thing that gave me hope was a father of a schoolmate of the kids who is a connoisseur of Cannabis wanted to smell my Widow plants. He smelled the first and said, that's not White Widow!!! No it isn't, that one's Carmelicious. Then he smelled another and smiled That's the White Widow I remember :)

:peace:
 
Radogast said:
From.what I read in the great names in cannabis section of the 420 magazine website, Shantibaba had to leave the Genetics of all the "White" strains developed since he Joined what was now becoming Greenhouse Seeds. GHS had rights to White Widow because that was his major contribution as the head grower when they formed the business together and GHS had rights to the White Widow name. So they are BOTH the authentic White Widow.
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Hence why Shantibaba's Mr. Nice Seed bank calls it "Black Widow" as he still is the only one with the true parentage of White Widow in the MNS clone reserve and GHSco still has the rights to the White Widow name like you mentioned.
 
Thats great you got an approval of your white widow.. Bellatrix actually resembles my widow plant, so looks like you at least got something thats a remnant of the original widow, if not, still the original genetics!!

:cheertwo:
 
Greenthumb J said:
Thats great you got an approval of your white widow.. Bellatrix actually resembles my widow plant, so looks like you at least got something thats a remnant of the original widow, if not, still the original genetics!!

:cheertwo:
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With two plants tall early and two plants budding wider, I am real interested in the smoke reports. It's a race for which two lines of clones get good harvest space in the next grow. After that we'll see. :)
 
. . . . . . SINCE LAST NIGHT . . . . Spotting and yellowing leaves, worse than ever.

I posted a picture of this exact same bud taken 15 hours ago.
The leaves looked great, except for lower fan leaves that were spotted for 1-3 weeks.

Today almost every single leaf is spotting and headed for yellowing.


20140613_171049-1.jpg


It's the same bud that looked great last night.

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You'd think today was a Friday the 13th, our a full moon, or a super moon full moon (closer to the earth than normal), or a mercury retrograde.
Sheeesh. . The hydro store is theoretically open if I need anything tomorrow.
Overnight.

Radogast said:
I fell asleep on the sofa last night so did not visit the girls for 48 hrs, the first day I did not check in with them.
They were fine. Like teenagers, they only needed me for food and shelter now.

White Widow Denise dropped about 6 leaves sucking the leaves of nutrients until brown and crispy.
At 5 weeks in flower, she stopped stretching days ago. The buds are growing slower.

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Low bud on right, one of about 7 this size.

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Buds along a stalk. There are lots of these.

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Yikes! I knew something wasn't right.. Looks like it reared its head!! I would help research your problem but I'm working at the moment. Maybe shoot KingJohnC a PM as he seems to be very knowledgeable in plant deficiencies and issues of the sort.
 
Yesterday it was 1 out of 4 plants in flower, today it is 3 out of 4 plants.

I googled "cannabis spotted leaves" and in threads where's the images matched, they all concluded it was PH(specifically high PH causing a manganese lockout) or reached no conclusion. Interestingly enough 5 weeks into flower was the most reported time :)

Last watering day, I watered with full strength nutes and cal-mag adjusted to 6.2 PH. That was 3-4 days before this latest round of spotting and yellowing. I suppose the PH in the soil could be drifting back up. For most of the grow, until I experienced the the spotted yellowing, I was watering at 6.4-6.6 because I thought 6.5 was optimum.

In a regular water, they have been drinking 4-5 liters with runoff. I didn't want to wait until watering day so I mixed up 0.5 liters per plant of full strength nutes and doubled strength cal-mag. I PH downed to 6.0.

Photos of the two tall girls (shoulder high, the other two are waist high) The buds are still growing. They look to run completely out of leaves before harvest if this problem doesn't improve.

20140614_235504-1.jpg



The bud that looked great two days ago. The bud itself still looks good

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Starting on two previously unaffected plants.

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That is definitely not natural dying of the leaves in flowering. Even the yellowing you had prior to this had me thinking there was something not right going on.

I hope your course of action sets things in the right direction cause i would hate to have to see an early premature harvest due to this problem. Manganese def is looking like a questionable suspect for sure.
 
Radogast said:
Yesterday it was 1 out of 4 plants in flower, today it is 3 out of 4 plants.

I googled "cannabis spotted leaves" and in threads where's the images matched, they all concluded it was PH(specifically high PH causing a manganese lockout) or reached no conclusion. Interestingly enough 5 weeks into flower was the most reported time :)

Last watering day, I watered with full strength nutes and cal-mag adjusted to 6.2 PH. That was 3-4 days before this latest round of spotting and yellowing. I suppose the PH in the soil could be drifting back up. For most of the grow, until I experienced the the spotted yellowing, I was watering at 6.4-6.6 because I thought 6.5 was optimum.

In a regular water, they have been drinking 4-5 liters with runoff. I didn't want to wait until watering day so I mixed up 0.5 liters per plant of full strength nutes and doubled strength cal-mag. I PH downed to 6.0.

Photos of the two tall girls (shoulder high, the other two are waist high) The buds are still growing. They look to run completely out of leaves before harvest if this problem doesn't improve.

20140614_235504-1.jpg



The bud that looked great two days ago. The bud itself still looks good

20140614_235733-1.jpg



Starting on two previously unaffected plants.

20140614_235726-1.jpg
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Radogast, I would flush your plants with gallons upon gallons of distilled water to start off with the cleansing.

In the mean time I will consult to King John about this issue.
 
Yeah, seems like some kind of immobile metal deficiency, Manganese is a good suspect. I think that after a cleansing, that a little solution that contains trace metals made from a product such as FF Tiger Bloom, or D&S Step 3 which contain the metals and are easily absorbed into the system.

Check for what levels of metals exist in your current nutrients, and also consider using a soil probe to check the actual pH of the soil.

Just trying to help, I hope it doesn't get worse...flushing with distilled water would have been my first step though.:goodluck::Namaste:
 
Relaxed Lester said:
Yeah, seems like some kind of immobile metal deficiency, Manganese is a good suspect. I think that after a cleansing, that a little solution that contains trace metals made from a product such as FF Tiger Bloom, or D&S Step 3 which contain the metals and are easily absorbed into the system.

Check for what levels of metals exist in your current nutrients, and also consider using a soil probe to check the actual pH of the soil.

Just trying to help, I hope it doesn't get worse...flushing with distilled water would have been my first step though.:goodluck::Namaste:
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I'll flush this evening (plant mid day) - Thank you, ALL of you :thanks:


My grow area is in the basement. I have a basement dehumidifier in the far corner that empties into a sump drain.
I had not thought off it before - Duh!!

I changed the basement setting (the intake air) from 60% RH to 45%RH. My overnight high humidity went from 82-83%RH to 62% max RH.
Tonight, I set the basement humidifier to 35%.
 
Subscribed. Your leaf damage appears to be a phosphorous deficiency and possibly a calcium deficiency as well. Can you take some photographs of leaves the damage is just starting on? Is the leaf damage all over your plants as well or is it isolated to the top portion of the plants?

You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

pH_chart7.jpg



Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

cannabis_leaf-deficiencies31.jpg



here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

Plant Abuse Chart


You may be able to lower your light reflectors. Place your hand underneath the light and move it to the point you can not feel any heat and move the reflector to that position above your canopy, raise the light as your plants grow.

Here are some lumen versus distance chart, they do not take heat into account

Metal_Halide_chart.jpg



HPS_chart.jpg



grow-room-light-distances.jpg



High_Intensity_Light_Coverage.jpg



HPSGraphPAR.jpg



Here is the BioBizz Nutrient Feed chart

biobizz_grow_chart1.jpg
 
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