still crankin em out 
PotChimp's Side Projects
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- #7,002
I have to! As much as I like to toke, Thurston Howell III couldn't pay my dispensary fee! Six blunts a day at market price would put Warrin' Buffitt in a soup line! 
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- #7,003
Boy, I looked at a thread the other day about the cost of seeds and it got some interesting thoughts going through my mind as far as the business end of this hobby goes. Some ugly ones, too.
Here's my take on it - One breeder gets angry about another guy using his stock. If it's clone only, the clone is stable, and there's an agreement between the two people not to use the plant for breeding, then I have to agree (although I don't know what the law would decide if it came up in court, and sadly, if it's not against the law, by the book it's okay).
It almost seems to me that if a breeder were to give some f1 seeds to a test grower (erratic, unstable, non-breedingworthy, hit-or-miss, pheno that never looks like the pic you bought the seeds to get, arranged like that on purpose to keep you from using it unless you work with it for years) and that test grower bred something special out with a plant from those seeds, the original breeder lays claim a stake in what you did from the seeds. Absolutely not, and it's not my opinion; it's how I conduct business.
I'm glad that what happens here on Danger Island stays on Danger Island; I can't imagine how mad I would get if somebody who initiated some of the strains I'm working even implied that $hit to me. People are crooked as Hell.....
Here's my take on it - One breeder gets angry about another guy using his stock. If it's clone only, the clone is stable, and there's an agreement between the two people not to use the plant for breeding, then I have to agree (although I don't know what the law would decide if it came up in court, and sadly, if it's not against the law, by the book it's okay).
It almost seems to me that if a breeder were to give some f1 seeds to a test grower (erratic, unstable, non-breedingworthy, hit-or-miss, pheno that never looks like the pic you bought the seeds to get, arranged like that on purpose to keep you from using it unless you work with it for years) and that test grower bred something special out with a plant from those seeds, the original breeder lays claim a stake in what you did from the seeds. Absolutely not, and it's not my opinion; it's how I conduct business.
I'm glad that what happens here on Danger Island stays on Danger Island; I can't imagine how mad I would get if somebody who initiated some of the strains I'm working even implied that $hit to me. People are crooked as Hell.....
Thug Pug came about after he found a very nice male in some seed stock he was testing for Gage Green Group. I think it may have been Mendo Breath F3. Thug Pug took that male and hit all sorts of desirable cuts with his male (he dubbed Studley). He made a good amount of crosses people were scrambling to get. His Peanut Butter Breath (dosido x Studley) was selling like hot cakes almost the whole time it was for sale. I grabbed a pack on what was supposed to be the last drop (it dropped again probably 5 to 6 times after that). There is now all sorts of bad blood between GGG and Thug Pug. There were even other breeders that kind of got in on the online arguing over how ethical it was to do. GGG's main bitch seems to be that Thug Pug was selling packs for $80 and people were buying them left and right. Meanwhile GGG prices their seeds at around 2 bills or more and was mad their seeds were not selling as well.
Now if Thug Pug had bought the seeds I would say GGG is SOL. He bought them they became his property to do as he wished with. The fact he was a tester for them is a little more dubious, but then again the seeds were given to him. So in that regard they are still his to do as he wishes with so long as he fulfilled his obligation to GGG and tested them as he was supposed to. And so long as they did not explicitly ask him to not breed with the gear before they gave them to him. Really though any one that is breeding is working other peoples gear, building off of what others have done before them. So I do not feel that should get too mad about other people using their work in crosses.
Now if Thug Pug had bought the seeds I would say GGG is SOL. He bought them they became his property to do as he wished with. The fact he was a tester for them is a little more dubious, but then again the seeds were given to him. So in that regard they are still his to do as he wishes with so long as he fulfilled his obligation to GGG and tested them as he was supposed to. And so long as they did not explicitly ask him to not breed with the gear before they gave them to him. Really though any one that is breeding is working other peoples gear, building off of what others have done before them. So I do not feel that should get too mad about other people using their work in crosses.
How does this genetic leasing thing actually work? I keep seeing people talk about the male but ... who needs him? All you need is pollen from Studley, right? If it were me, I'd just be mailing off pollen. Do they actually grow the male out? 
I am not sure about the genetic leasing, but it seems that Thug Pug did most of the breeding himself with studley. And from the sounds of it he grew him out a few times to collect pollen, or to do open pollinations (I am not certain which). He did do some collaborations with Lowkey Farms where they used his pollen to pollinate Purple Punch and Gelato 33. That is where the Larry Bird Breath I ran came from. I would have to guess it was just him sending them pollen to use. I actually have seeds of the Punch cross which is Purple Drank Breath. I got lucky and got a 15 pack instead of a 10 pack. Those ones were pricier than the straight Thug Pug crosses.How does this genetic leasing thing actually work? I keep seeing people talk about the male but ... who needs him? All you need is pollen from Studley, right? If it were me, I'd just be mailing off pollen. Do they actually grow the male out?
That is one nug I pulled off the Larry Bird Breath.
Well, you can't clone pollen - when you've used it up, it's gone.
I wouldn't be delivering an actual male cut, if it were me - puzzling.
I wouldn't be delivering an actual male cut, if it were me - puzzling.
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- #7,008
A lot of issues like this are going to come up once corporate weedmerica kicks into high gear. I'll be keeping an eye out on things, even though I don't have to. Everything I'm doing is from f1 (more work involved than finding something in the wild and working it as far as I'm concerned), and I bought the seeds I use, so no problems there. Worse comes to worse, I can just disappear and pop us later as PurpChimp with my new unknown bagseed breeding projects! 
I've wondered about it over the years. You hear the old stories about double-crosses, so to speak. So, you hand over a special cut to a guy so he can breed with it. He cheats and takes a cut or breeds to stuff he was told not to. They end up in a dispute or in competition. Kinda reminds me of early copy protection. It's silly - won't/can't work. It's out in public and can't be controlled. So, tough nougies, you shouldn't have made that agreement - too easy and tempting to break.
And the offspring should belong to the one who done the deed. You breed someone else's plant to one of your own, you own that offspring, unless you made some detailed agreement on the future of those genetics. But still - if you didn't put sufficient protections in place, that should be on the guy who made the loose agreement.
If you have a physical cut in your possession, there's no way to enforce how you use it, unless you're a big moneybags/corporate guy who can be hurt. You can make all the agreements you want, but you can't prevent anything, only punish. There's a history for it in the agricultural industry. People breed new genetics all the time, and sell to corps, who contract them out to growers. They learned how to control their hybrids decades ago.
I think the corps will be able to create branded hybrid lines like Cookies and market them exclusively, but there's too much variety in the public domain to keep much control over genetics. Like you're doing with the GDP. It's just a particular genetic combination. Once you have an actual plant, you can reverse and interbreed, and end up with genetics as good or superior to the branded clone line. Eventually.
And the offspring should belong to the one who done the deed. You breed someone else's plant to one of your own, you own that offspring, unless you made some detailed agreement on the future of those genetics. But still - if you didn't put sufficient protections in place, that should be on the guy who made the loose agreement.
If you have a physical cut in your possession, there's no way to enforce how you use it, unless you're a big moneybags/corporate guy who can be hurt. You can make all the agreements you want, but you can't prevent anything, only punish. There's a history for it in the agricultural industry. People breed new genetics all the time, and sell to corps, who contract them out to growers. They learned how to control their hybrids decades ago.
I think the corps will be able to create branded hybrid lines like Cookies and market them exclusively, but there's too much variety in the public domain to keep much control over genetics. Like you're doing with the GDP. It's just a particular genetic combination. Once you have an actual plant, you can reverse and interbreed, and end up with genetics as good or superior to the branded clone line. Eventually.
The way I see it, it really depends on the relationship of the tester and breeder. I can certainly see a breeder enlisting the help of testers without giving them the approval/authority to re-sell their genetics and I can see it as a perceived "slap in the face" if that happens. They're looking for help testing their genetics and not looking to enable competitors. That being said, if there was no contract/agreement, the breeder is likely SOL.
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- #7,011
Oh, you mean my Good Dang Pot breeding project, Graytail? 
I grew this from a seed I found on the sidewalk. I was walking down Ghost Train Haze street and I was at the #1 house:
This pot seed was laying right next to it, so I grew it too:
MPK; not sure what those initials mean.....
I NEVer wILl know what'S up with tHis plAnt's name. Zany, but truE:
My best Sgt. Schultz impression from Hoe-guns heroes - "I know nothing! Nothing!"
I grew this from a seed I found on the sidewalk. I was walking down Ghost Train Haze street and I was at the #1 house:
This pot seed was laying right next to it, so I grew it too:
MPK; not sure what those initials mean.....
I NEVer wILl know what'S up with tHis plAnt's name. Zany, but truE:
My best Sgt. Schultz impression from Hoe-guns heroes - "I know nothing! Nothing!"
Yeah, whaddya ya know - people should be more careful with their seeds.
Your gain, I guess. Nice ones.
Your gain, I guess.
Nice ones.- Thread starter
- #7,013
..... then I looked down on the ground when I was still on Ghost Train Haze street in front of the #1 house:
and picked up a dog turd that, strangely enough, was the exact same color as the spacecraft Apollo 13. It had a funky smell 2 it, so I scarfed it down. But before I did, I noticed another pot seed stuck to it. I grew that one, too:
and picked up a dog turd that, strangely enough, was the exact same color as the spacecraft Apollo 13. It had a funky smell 2 it, so I scarfed it down. But before I did, I noticed another pot seed stuck to it. I grew that one, too:
Dankman_420
Well-Known Member
Hey chimp did your JTR have tall trichs?
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- #7,015
Man, I hope it never gets that way; where we gotta hide the names of what we're doing so we don't get sued.....
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- #7,016
I can't remember that part, to be honest. It was pretty frosty, and smelled like pink lemonade a little.
Dankman_420
Well-Known Member
Thanks brother I have a couple of Chernobyl pheno's both with tall trichs. Was trying to figure out if it was from the JTR or bloodwreck.
The way I see the breeder trying to keep there stuff to themselves is nuts. Once you sell the seeds it's now the buyers property
At least it is what I drop the cash
The way I see the breeder trying to keep there stuff to themselves is nuts. Once you sell the seeds it's now the buyers property
At least it is what I drop the cash - Thread starter
- #7,018
I think we're all on the same page with it for the most part. As the business evolves, those type deals will be put in writing for legal purposes.
Speaking of the business, I was wondering something about the states that have legal recreational weed. Do they run TV commercials for the dispensaries? I'm guessing not.....
Speaking of the business, I was wondering something about the states that have legal recreational weed. Do they run TV commercials for the dispensaries? I'm guessing not.....
I do not think they are allowed to advertise at all. Maybe I am wrong about that. I did see billboards from one state, so maybe it is just no tv ads.
Dankman_420
Well-Known Member
I read on IG awhile ago that Old world genetics ( DJ short ) put put a disclaimer on their seed packs that breeding with them was not allowed 
Good luck with that DJ 
Good luck with that DJ