Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Azimuth]

*** SEED TO SIP EXPERIMENT ***

It's time for another experiment since that's what you guys pay me to do in this thread.

I've had great success with the SIP pot format and I'm getting ready to promote a plant to flower and therefore need a replacement to get ready for next month's slot. Usually I pick from one of the clones I have and try to keep a decent rotation of strains, but this next slot was allocated for my new CBG strain.

I do have a couple of clones I could use but neither are really as developed as I wanted to up-pot, so I've decided to see how a seed planted directly into the SIP will fare from seed to harvest all in the same pot. This isn't exactly breaking new ground as I did do this before in my smaller 1L veg pots. That plant quickly got out of hand and I've used it for clones, but its structure won't really work to send it to flower so I need an alternative.

Plus, I'll likely be recommending this structure to new growers and I want to have the hands-on experience going from seed to harvest in the final pot. So, this evening I started giving swimming lessons to a feminized CBG seed. Right now she's practicing treading water.

I've got a couple of SIPs in flower now that are based on the "cave" pot structure and I'm noticing that I'm having the same delay of getting the roots established in the reservoir with these 2 Gal containers as I did with the 1L ones. Soooo, I'm going to build a couple of the 2 Gal "gravel bed" types and then I can compare them to the cave structured pots running now.

The 'gravel bed' structured pot is easier to build compared to the 'cave', and here's how I'm doing it...

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This will work with any standard 2 or 5 gallon bucket. I use a 2 gallon because I have height restrictions but the standard is definitely a 5 gallon.

To create the reservoir, I use food storage containers (Tupperware) like a bowl with straight sides with a slightly smaller footprint than the width of my bucket and that fits down into it. I make holes for the fill tubes in the bottom of the bowl near its side and then make a bunch of other drainage holes all over with a soldering iron (but could use a small drill bit).

Then I make a small drainage hole in the side of the bucket about an inch below where the top of the the bowl will be (flipped over so it makes a dome) so there is an air gap between the top of the water and the soil that sits on top of the upside down bowl. This air gap is very important and what I think is the true secret behind the success of these things.

Then I flip the food container upside down so it's like a dome and put it in the bottom of my bucket and insert the fill tubes through the holes made in the dome. I like to have the fill tubes suspended in the dome rather than going all the way down to the bottom so I use a pvc coupler to hold a stub piece that goes through the ceiling of the dome and is connected to the fill tube above it. Then I fill the bucket all around the dome with media. I put hydroton clay balls in the bottom to a level just over the drainage hole but most growers just use the grow mix they are already using. If you do use your regular mix just be sure to pack it down well in the zone below the overflow hole. The rest of your mix goes in firmed like you normally would do in any other pot.

I get water roots to fill the transition section which I think is a good thing but that does not seem to apply to SIPs using only soil. Since I prefer roots in the reservoir area, I'm going to stick with my hydroton clay balls.

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So, that's pretty much it. Very simple and I think will play to the strengths of this set-up quite well. Once the seed pops and shows a bit of leg, I'll plant it directly into the 2 Gal pot and then water lightly for a few days as the tap root makes its way down to the reservoir. At that point I'll start watering it through the fill tubes, giving it what it can drink in a day or two and see how it progresses. It will veg for 4 weeks and then get flipped.

My only concern is that my soil mix seems to last 8-10 weeks before running out of gas so I'll try to give it enough of my crumbles, FAA, and Jadam nutes to keep it going.

Assuming this works as well as I think it will, this could be a great way for a new grower to get a successful harvest without the usual growing pains of learning how to water.

I think this could be a part of the 'ultimate new grower setup':

"New Grower Package."
A 2 or 5 Gallon SIP
A good soil mix
GeoFlora nutes
MarsHydro Tent Package with a light and fan

Train with a quadline and you have a super easy, but very effective grow for even a first time grower, even with autos.

Or even a great specimen plant for an accomplished grower like @Mycelium Farmer to put out on that great back deck of his overlooking the farm. Put a favorite smelling plant in a 5 Gal bucket and have a nice, low maintenance, but successful grow.

At least, "that's the plan, man."

Azi out.

 

[Mycelium Farmer]

I'm down for it!

 

[Danishoes21]

 

[Azimuth]

I'm down for it!

Here's a group shot from Buds last grow to illustrate the possibilities. He got over a pound in that 5 gallon bucket.

 

[Azimuth]

Needed some supplies to finish the SIPs so I headed over to a couple of local grow shops. Because of federal cannabis prohibition they have to disguise themselves and carry other non-growing related supplies to make it look convincing.

The first shop calls themselves a "Dollar" store and in the SIP reservoir aisle I found a colander that they market for straining pasta (wink, wink) that is almost exactly the right size for my 2 Gal bucket, and 12 cup/96oz "food storage" containers that should work fine for a 5 Gal that I'm hoping to use for a moringa tree seed I'm trying to pop.

The colander already had all the small aeration holes so all I'll need to do is make the fill tube holes which I guess they leave up to the individual since we probably all want them in different places. I'll have to make my holes myself in the other container but, hey, for a buck I'm happy to do it.

The next stop was to a big box grow shop marketing themselves as a hardware store for the plumbing fittings needed for the fill pipe.

Got the buckets all assembled and now just waiting for the seed to crack.

 

[Mycelium Farmer]

Needed some supplies to finish the SIPs so I headed over to a couple of local grow shops. Because of federal cannabis prohibition they have to disguise themselves and carry other non-growing related supplies to make it look convincing.

The first shop calls themselves a "Dollar" store and in the SIP reservoir aisle I found a colander that they market for straining pasta (wink, wink) that is almost exactly the right size for my 2 Gal bucket, and 12 cup/96oz "food storage" containers that should work fine for a 5 Gal that I'm hoping to use for a moringa tree seed I'm trying to pop.

The colander already had all the small aeration holes so all I'll need to do is make the fill tube holes which I guess they leave up to the individual since we probably all want them in different places. I'll have to make my holes myself in the other container but, hey, for a buck I'm happy to do it.

The next stop was to a big box grow shop marketing themselves as a hardware store for the plumbing fittings needed for the fill pipe.

Got the buckets all assembled and now just waiting for the seed to crack.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you at?
The hardware stores are hillarious around here... the weekly specials and shelves are stocked purely for cannabis farmers. They don't care, they advertise to pick up your planting and harvest supplies.

 

[JoetheChro]

Got some reading to do but was looking for in-depth. Guess I found it. Really looking forward to going back and having a read through

 

[scottreid1966]

Baby steps, Scotty. Baby steps.
Another book-mark! Thanks, Azi.
I am still learning the basics!

Cheers!

 

[Azimuth]

Baby steps, Scotty. Baby steps.
Another book-mark! Thanks, Azi.
I am still learning the basics!

Cheers!

Honestly, I'd move the SIP to the top of your project list. The results are that good. It's really only a watering approach. A really, really, good, watering approach. And it'll work with most soil mixes. Try it with at least one. Indoors or outdoors, and I'll bet you won't grow any other way after.

And the build I described in the post above is very simple.

 

[Bill284]

Honestly, I'd move the SIP to the top of your project list. The results are that good. It's really only a watering approach. A really, really, good, watering approach. And it'll work with most soil mixes. Try it with at least one. Indoors or outdoors, and I'll bet you won't grow any other way after.

And the build I described in the post above is very simple.

Good morning Azi
Hope you are well my friend.
I'm a big proponent of root growth and health.
You and a couple others have me intrigued on this system.
I've spent a few years developing a system that is way better for roots than any other I've found.
Your system? isn't it a self watering system to make it easier to keep them fed?
I don't see the potential for the kind of root growth I get.
But what I guess is the point she has access to nutrients 24/7 ?
And therefore root development isn't as vital?
Maby I just don't get it.
Water sits on the bottom right?
So the bottom roots are fed constantly, what about the rest?
If you don’t get the whole pot wet roots won't grow there correct?
If it's only getting water at the bottom the rest of the soil will be bone dry.
So obviously I'm not getting it.
My soil girls empty their entire pot daily, roots so thick it takes forever to water them.
Seriously long time, so a system like yours would be beneficial for time.
But is it the best for growth or just a time saver.
I love shortcuts and anything to make the grow go smoother.
But not at the cost of plant health and size.
Everything I do is for their benefit not to save time necessarily.
So I'm not going to sacrifice health/size for a time saver.
But I'm sure it's more than I'm understanding.
I'm going to go grab a coffee Azi, I'll pick this up with you tomorrow.
Take care, talk soon.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

Good morning Azi
Hope you are well my friend.
I'm a big proponent of root growth and health.
You and a couple others have me intrigued on this system.
I've spent a few years developing a system that is way better for roots than any other I've found.
Your system? isn't it a self watering system to make it easier to keep them fed?
I don't see the potential for the kind of root growth I get.
But what I guess is the point she has access to nutrients 24/7 ?
And therefore root development isn't as vital?
Maby I just don't get it.
Water sits on the bottom right?
So the bottom roots are fed constantly, what about the rest?
If you don’t get the whole pot wet roots won't grow there correct?
If it's only getting water at the bottom the rest of the soil will be bone dry.
So obviously I'm not getting it.
My soil girls empty their entire pot daily, roots so thick it takes forever to water them.
Seriously long time, so a system like yours would be beneficial for time.
But is it the best for growth or just a time saver.
I love shortcuts and anything to make the grow go smoother.
But not at the cost of plant health and size.
Everything I do is for their benefit not to save time necessarily.
So I'm not going to sacrifice health/size for a time saver.
But I'm sure it's more than I'm understanding.
I'm going to go grab a coffee Azi, I'll pick this up with you tomorrow.
Take care, talk soon.




Stay safe
Bill284

Morning Bill.

This is an entirely different approach to watering that can even be automated if desired. The concept is soil above, water below with an air gap in between. There are less roots but more are not necessary in this setup.

There is a connector pot or transition area between the soil and water depending on how it is built (there are at least three design options). Water wicks up through the medium all the way to the top, at least for a container about 15-20 inches. I'm not sure how tall a container would max out this wicking but it works great in a five gallon bucket. I'm not sure how your mix would work in it though as your perlite layers might interfere with the wicking. Perlite does have some wicking properties but that would have to be tested. But I will say it works fantastic with a homogeneous mix from top to bottom.

Here are some links if you want to explore:

Buds Buddy's SIP vs others
Buds got over a pound from that plant in the five gallon bucket, and you can see the difference between it and his others in cloth pots.

Buds Current Grow
We're having a bit of background discussion on them in this second link; how they work, how to build them, etc. Works great with organics and not only do you not sacrifice growth or yield, it seems to be much better. Maybe that's because watering with these is stupid simple to get right. All the time. So there is never any recovery time for poor watering habits.

There is some debate as to why these work so well, but I am convinced it is actually the air gap which provides constant access to O2 to the lower roots. The perlite layers you put in your pots likely serves a similar function.

There are a few of us growing with these but for some reason they aren't that popular. But seeing the results I and others have had consistently I'll likely never grow in any other set-up.

I'm happy to answer any questions either here or on Buds' thread. His is where most of the discussion is taking place and is that second link I pointed to above. But to answer one of your issues, the time it takes to water a plant is however long it takes to literally pour water down the fill tube. 10 seconds for a gallon? It might free up so much time you'll wonder what to do with yourself. Emilya just built her first round and transplanted a few days ago. I'm concerned she's gonna get bored watering the way we do.

 

[Bill284]

Morning Bill.

This is an entirely different approach to watering that can even be automated if desired. The concept is soil above, water below with an air gap in between. There are less roots but more are not necessary in this setup.

There is a connector pot or transition area between the soil and water depending on how it is built (there are at least three design options). Water wicks up through the medium all the way to the top, at least for a container about 15-20 inches. I'm not sure how tall a container would max out this wicking but it works great in a five gallon bucket. I'm not sure how your mix would work in it though as your perlite layers might interfere with the wicking. Perlite does have some wicking properties but that would have to be tested. But I will say it works fantastic with a homogeneous mix from top to bottom.

Here are some links if you want to explore:

Buds Buddy's SIP vs others
Buds got over a pound from that plant in the five gallon bucket, and you can see the difference between it and his others in cloth pots.

Buds Current Grow
We're having a bit of background discussion on them in this second link; how they work, how to build them, etc. Works great with organics and not only do you not sacrifice growth or yield, it seems to be much better. Maybe that's because watering with these is stupid simple to get right. All the time. So there is never any recovery time for poor watering technique.

There is some debate as to why these work so well, but I am convinced it is the air gap which provides constant access to O2 to the lower roots.

There are a few of us growing with these but for some reason they aren't that popular. But seeing the results I and others have had consistently I'll likely never grow in any other set-up.

I'm happy to answer any questions either here or on Buds' thread. His is where most of the discussion is taking place and is that second link I pointed to above. But to answer one of your issues, the time it takes to water a plant is however long it takes to literally pour water down the fill tube. 10 seconds for a gallon? It might free up so much time you'll wonder what to do with yourself. Emilya just built her first round and transplanted a few days ago. I'm concerned she's gonna get bored watering the way we do.

Being bored won't be an issue believe me.
I get pretty good air in my pots now, something I believe helps my growth rate, agreed.
I've got a bit before much next grow, I'll watch and learn for now
Thanks, have a great day Azi .




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

Being bored won't be an issue believe me.
I get pretty good air in my pots now, something I believe helps my growth rate, agreed.
I've got a bit before much next grow, I'll watch and learn for now
Thanks, have a great day Azi .




Stay safe
Bill284

Or build one and compare results and the effort required for those results. They're pretty easy and simple to build. I've done many in 1L containers so they don't have to be large, and I'm converting my houseplants and garden veggies over as well.

 

[Bill284]

Or build one and compare results and the effort required for those results. They're pretty easy and simple to build. I've done many in 1L containers so they don't have to be large, and I'm converting my houseplants and garden veggies over as well.

I'll definitely do one, I'm just not starting another grow for a little bit.
Give me time to pic your brain and drive y nuts.
Thanks.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

I'll definitely do one, I'm just not starting another grow for a little bit.
Give me time to pic your brain and drive y nuts.
Thanks.




Stay safe
Bill284

Excellent. In that case you should build two and run one with your normal mix and pot set-up and the other with just your normal mix but no extra perlite layers. Then you can add to our collective knowledge as to how the perlite layers work or don't with the normal wicking operation.

 

[Azimuth]

So, this evening I started giving swimming lessons to a feminized CBG seed. Right now she's practicing treading water.

36 hours in and she's successfully completed the treading water portion of her training. She floated nicely on top of the water and is now showing some leg. I prefer that my seeds not sink to the bottom but stay floating where there is ample O2 and moisture combined.

Since she is showing some leg she is ready to start learning the flutter kick so I'll let her try it for a while before continuing her survival training later today when I bury her and see if she can dig herself out and bust out back up to the light.

Game on!

 

[scottreid1966]

Needed some supplies to finish the SIPs so I headed over to a couple of local grow shops. Because of federal cannabis prohibition they have to disguise themselves and carry other non-growing related supplies to make it look convincing.

The first shop calls themselves a "Dollar" store and in the SIP reservoir aisle I found a colander that they market for straining pasta (wink, wink) that is almost exactly the right size for my 2 Gal bucket, and 12 cup/96oz "food storage" containers that should work fine for a 5 Gal that I'm hoping to use for a moringa tree seed I'm trying to pop.

The colander already had all the small aeration holes so all I'll need to do is make the fill tube holes which I guess they leave up to the individual since we probably all want them in different places. I'll have to make my holes myself in the other container but, hey, for a buck I'm happy to do it.

The next stop was to a big box grow shop marketing themselves as a hardware store for the plumbing fittings needed for the fill pipe.

Got the buckets all assembled and now just waiting for the seed to crack. Hi Azi, I will be up-pitting my phase II next week-end.

Hi Azi! Will be uppotting my PhaseII in preparation for flower in 5-6 weeks. I did,t bookmark the one with pictures and better visual aids.

I will give it another try.
Withouit visuals, not sure I can do this.

*** 2 Gal SIP Prototype Build ***

Sips (Sub Irrigated Planters) are plant containers with a built-in water reservoir and air gap in the bottom of the container. Every single plant I've grown with them has been super successful but they've been limited to 1Q/1L containers in my veg space so I thought I'd scale it up a bit for my flower box.

The biggest size I can go to is a 2 Gallon/8L bucket and my DIY version follows below. For those not DIY inclined or who would rather purchase something off the shelf, they can find a 5 Gal bucket insert on the 'Zon called a 'GrowTec Garden GroBucket' for between $12-$18 US depending on quantity purchased.

Ok, I found them locally also. I found a 10 pack for 5g buckets that work out to about $20 each.
The only catch here is that the 5g buckets with lids are clear!
Or I can get smaller trash cans.
Or maybe I could paint the outer bucket, and then leave a small window to show water levels?
Or maybe can I use clear buckets for the 5g version, since I can use my existing fabric pots as an insert in the upper bucket (and the roots can grow through the bottom, as long as it is wet)?
Or I could even cut a hole for the roots in the center, right above the 3" net pot?

The typical DIY version calls for a nested pair of 5 Gallon buckets available at any hardware store. Ideally buckets with a thick rim are used, and at least 2.5-3" work best.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Azi! Will be uppotting my PhaseII in preparation for flower in 5-6 weeks. I did,t bookmark the one with pictures and better visual aids.

I will give it another try.
Withouit visuals, not sure I can do this.

@GreenFingaz posted This video over in Buds' thread. My original two buckets are built similarly but my last three are my other type.

I'm happy to walk you though the build if you have any questions, but I do think it is the better version. The video one will work fine as well, especially late in flower when the watering needs pick up. It just that the other version gets the better growth going faster.

Or, you can skip the entire DIY thing and buy the commercial version Buds is using in his post Here.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @scottreid1966 ,

I will give it another try.
Withouit visuals, not sure I can do this.

I understand. There's YouTube videos and web pages, I hope you can find one that works for you.

Ok, I found them locally also. I found a 10 pack for 5g buckets that work out to about $20 each.

I found them on the Amazing River for $13 each for a 10 pack.

The only catch here is that the 5g buckets with lids are clear!
Or I can get smaller trash cans.
Or maybe I could paint the outer bucket, and then leave a small window to show water levels?
Or maybe can I use clear buckets for the 5g version, since I can use my existing fabric pots as an insert in the upper bucket (and the roots can grow through the bottom, as long as it is wet)?
Or I could even cut a hole for the roots in the center, right above the 3" net pot?

Yeah, I have the same problem. My buckets are clear!
I put cardboard around her, and then I can peek through the clear when I want.
I may look for some black weed cloth for a pot-wrap (which should hold up better long term).
I would be interested to hear what solutions you come up with.

 

[Azimuth]

I get water roots to fill the transition section which I think is a good thing but that does not seem to apply to SIPs using only soil.

*** Official Clarification Statement ***

I wish to formally rephrase the statement highlighted above. After looking more closely at the commercial version rootball photo it is clear that roots  do in fact populate the reservoir zone as can be seen in the photo below. The roots seem to be regular soil roots (not my water roots), but my original statement suggesting roots do not populate this area in the commercial version was clearly incorrect. The roots are obviously much more pronounced on the inside up against the water reservoir than they are against the outer bucket wall.

----

Factory Pics from the Website.