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- #381
Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam
- Thread starter Azimuth
- Start date
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the boom-mark, Azi. I have some cooked and soaking...
Gonna dump it now and start all over. Thanks so much for all your info, Azi. Wasn't sarcastic about my tired eyes comment, you contribute alot and looking forward to "catching up" to you and the others in your niche. I have alot to learn. Work is crazy till year end but have winters off.
Will do my best to keep up till then. My brain doesn't absorb as well as it did X years ago.... Go figure!
Keep up the good work, always good reading.
Cheers!
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- #383
About 10 days in and the worm casting top dress is having the desired effect as color is returning to the leaves. So, that's good to know that I can correct deficiencies by renewing the castings and leaf mold layer. But, better to anticipate than react so I may implement a refresh cycle into the schedule if things go longer than expected. The original mix seems to power things pretty well for 8-10 weeks so, as long as I up-pot sooner than that I would think it should work fine.
But, like with my crumble, I'm going to try going straight to the source first by adding extra worms to each container periodically. Hopefully there will be enough organic matter left for them to munch on and leave their castings behind on an ongoing basis.
Highya Azimuth,
I was wondering if we could add the leaf mold (as my ladies are in the ground) directly to the roots as part of a mulch. I still may need to do a microbe solution though. I'd rather not start a worm farm. I do have a fair amount of earthworms in there. All food for thought! I'm getting a lot of yellow fans a little early as well. I see you're still experimenting a lot. Adds a lot of fun to the grow! Happy Smokin'
I was wondering if we could add the leaf mold (as my ladies are in the ground) directly to the roots as part of a mulch. I still may need to do a microbe solution though. I'd rather not start a worm farm. I do have a fair amount of earthworms in there. All food for thought! I'm getting a lot of yellow fans a little early as well. I see you're still experimenting a lot. Adds a lot of fun to the grow! Happy Smokin'
- Thread starter
- #385
** Biochar **
Biochar is a soil amendment brought about by studying the ancient soils of the Amazon, which were able to support huge populations of native peoples. No mean feat since rainforest soils are known for being pretty infertile, so once the trees and understory are cleared out the soil won't support much in the way of annual food crops.
However, the soil in great swaths of acreage near the Amazon River are incredibly fertile. Known locally as Terra Preta, or dark soil, it appears to be man made, or at least man amended, in that it contains pottery shards, animal bones, and chunks of charred wood. The wood char contains microscopic holes or pores with an incredible surface area available as a home to microbes and fungi. Something like a tablespoon of char is supposed to have the surface area of a football field! Crazy.
Scientists are not sure exactly how this supersoil came about, but they continue to be highly fertile to this day and seem to have a self-perpetuating feature to them which they believe to be microbe related.
The char seems to be a key feature to the ongoing fertility of Terra Preta and we can approximate that part at least in our gardens, and here's how I make mine.
Since we are looking for charred pieces of wood, I start with a backyard fire pit. (And chocolate, marshmallows and Graham crackers, because 'smores!)
I let the fire burn down until the coals no longer produce yellow flames which means they have consumed most of the volatiles and wood gases and are ready for the next step. If we just leave them be they will mostly turn to ash which does not have the properties we want, so instead we have to put the fire out. This can be accomplished by burying the coals with soil to starve them of oxygen, but I usually just use a pair of barbecue tongs to pull them out and soak them in a metal bucket of water. Metal is important here since the water will get quite hot and can melt a plastic bucket.
The water bath also has the added effect of creating steam as the hot coals hit the water which helps further open the pores in the char. I just leave it to cool overnight since if you remove it prematurely it can resume burning and turn to ash.
Once it's cooled off it is ready to charge, which basically means infusing it with nutrients. If you don't charge it before use it will work much like your charcoal air filter in that it will suck out nutrients from your soil until it is saturated so your first year or two could show deficiencies as it absorbs those nutrients from the soil.
There are lots of ways to charge the char. Some simply use urine but if you use that be sure your source is from a pharmaceutical free source so you don't introduce unwanteds into your grow. Others use special recipes of multiple inputs carefully balanced to act as fertilizer once its done.
To charge mine, I simply mix it with equal parts of fresh worm castings, cover it and let it sit in a bucket for at least a few weeks before use. As it sits, the pores in the char will fill with microbes, fungi and nutrients and it will become a great input to your mix.
But before I charge mine, I first smash it down and screen it to eliminate pieces bigger than 1/4" and smaller stuff approaching dust. Then I'm left with little uniform pieces that will work well when I mix it into my GroMix.
Add it in an amount no more than 10-15% of your mix. The char in Terra Preta is said to have lasted more than 1,000 years, so be sure to recycle your mix to get the long term benefits for your garden.
Biochar is a soil amendment brought about by studying the ancient soils of the Amazon, which were able to support huge populations of native peoples. No mean feat since rainforest soils are known for being pretty infertile, so once the trees and understory are cleared out the soil won't support much in the way of annual food crops.
However, the soil in great swaths of acreage near the Amazon River are incredibly fertile. Known locally as Terra Preta, or dark soil, it appears to be man made, or at least man amended, in that it contains pottery shards, animal bones, and chunks of charred wood. The wood char contains microscopic holes or pores with an incredible surface area available as a home to microbes and fungi. Something like a tablespoon of char is supposed to have the surface area of a football field! Crazy.
Scientists are not sure exactly how this supersoil came about, but they continue to be highly fertile to this day and seem to have a self-perpetuating feature to them which they believe to be microbe related.
The char seems to be a key feature to the ongoing fertility of Terra Preta and we can approximate that part at least in our gardens, and here's how I make mine.
Since we are looking for charred pieces of wood, I start with a backyard fire pit. (And chocolate, marshmallows and Graham crackers, because 'smores!)
I let the fire burn down until the coals no longer produce yellow flames which means they have consumed most of the volatiles and wood gases and are ready for the next step. If we just leave them be they will mostly turn to ash which does not have the properties we want, so instead we have to put the fire out. This can be accomplished by burying the coals with soil to starve them of oxygen, but I usually just use a pair of barbecue tongs to pull them out and soak them in a metal bucket of water. Metal is important here since the water will get quite hot and can melt a plastic bucket.
The water bath also has the added effect of creating steam as the hot coals hit the water which helps further open the pores in the char. I just leave it to cool overnight since if you remove it prematurely it can resume burning and turn to ash.
Once it's cooled off it is ready to charge, which basically means infusing it with nutrients. If you don't charge it before use it will work much like your charcoal air filter in that it will suck out nutrients from your soil until it is saturated so your first year or two could show deficiencies as it absorbs those nutrients from the soil.
There are lots of ways to charge the char. Some simply use urine but if you use that be sure your source is from a pharmaceutical free source so you don't introduce unwanteds into your grow. Others use special recipes of multiple inputs carefully balanced to act as fertilizer once its done.
To charge mine, I simply mix it with equal parts of fresh worm castings, cover it and let it sit in a bucket for at least a few weeks before use. As it sits, the pores in the char will fill with microbes, fungi and nutrients and it will become a great input to your mix.
But before I charge mine, I first smash it down and screen it to eliminate pieces bigger than 1/4" and smaller stuff approaching dust. Then I'm left with little uniform pieces that will work well when I mix it into my GroMix.
Add it in an amount no more than 10-15% of your mix. The char in Terra Preta is said to have lasted more than 1,000 years, so be sure to recycle your mix to get the long term benefits for your garden.
- Thread starter
- #386
Hey Bode,
You bet. I use them as both a mulch as well as a key component of my soil mix. The leaf mold will act like a normal mulch keeping the soil cooler and keep it from drying out, but since it's made from leaves it will also add lots of minerals to the soil as it breaks down. When trees grow, their roots pull minerals from deep in the earth and some of that is stored in the leaves. They act in the same manner as the Dynamic or Super Accumulators with their long tap roots like comfrey.
Plus leaves are pretty much what Mother Nature uses to mulch the forests. I figure since she seems to be a better grower than I, might as well accept the lesson.
And still use the microbe solution. Just be prepared to refresh the mulch layer more often if you do. And a nice thick layer will encourage worms to populate the soil for you. Good stuff all around.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Hi Azimuth. Thank you for keeping us up to date on your sips and amendments. You're saving many people a lot of extra work, and tears, with this effort. Thumbs up.
I cannot recall why (or maybe even if) you are not using liquid Jadam or KNF with these plants. For the experiment? Concerned about stagnation in res?
I know from experience and research, as you likely do at least from reading SIP threads, that indeed things like LABs in particular are not appropriate additions to the res.
However, I have begun a weekly application of a small amount of top watered nutrient in an experimental SIP (3 gal bucket inside a 5 gal bucket) I run perpetually that is solely for testing/torturing, no harvests, just testing on veggies and canna.
So long as the watering is not enough to leech down into res. I have had no issues with questionable smells/anaerobes. This includes generous helpings of a fermented frass/wcastings that I made 6 mos ago . This stuff is so concentrated, so wicked, and I've tested with it for 6 weeks. It is the definition of nasty, yet it caused nothing to go off so long as the wetting is moderate enough to avoid seepage into res below. When I did use that much, next day awfulness ensued.
I have a stirring pump in each of my canna SIPs, the ones on my grow journal thread. I also made a venturi on those pumps for sucking in oxygen into the pump when its triggered by timers 5 mins per hour, however the experimental bucket SIP has no such gadgetry and has not needed it to handle microbes provided they remain in the grow matrix.
My conclusion is that hand watered-in biology is an exceptional SIP growing tool if kept out of the res. Note however that I have not tested giving heavy Jadam ferts in SIP reservoirs with advantage of my stirring pumps and venturi oxygen injection a proper trial or off the cuff.
I'm looking for simplicity because that's how I avoid errors and maintain a high fun quotient. So my personal "best practice" might turn out to be, "50ppm nitrogen in a 10-4-12 salts ferts reservoir, combined with 300 total ppm balanced organic ferts mixed into matrix, and Jadam/Knf liquid applied foliar and/or light top watering weekly to manage stage of life needs".
I'm not looking to find reasons to have the pumps be a required element, I just installed them because I could. They're for entertainment and education. My second 5x5 tent, that I'm resetting now, will hopefully run sativas if I can keep the seedlings alive another week. Possibly I'll run a pump in just one SIP with them to try and learn something about its efficacy. Maybe the 'stir and venturi' addition will make pure, bottom-up Jadam/KNF in lightly amended soil/peat possible, or maybe it wont.
Currently, I do believe that healthy biology can coexist and thrive in presence of a light to moderate synthetic nutrient, from my research and experience, but it's just not sensible for most people. We're not 'most people'...
Mycelium Farmer
Commercial Cultivator
Well written, very informative. Bio char is a great winter project we practice here at the same time as creating defensible space and forest thinning.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hi Azi! Sorry I have not had time to catch up on your thread, like I wanted! And we are moving, and starting a homestead now, so time is out the window for a few years.
Briefly, could you please tell me what your "original mix" looked like?
I still have not received the Jadam book (Colombian post), and with the new homestead project it may be years, so I am hoping you can tell me what your "original mix" is, so I can glean some of your knowledge by following along with your thread!
Thanks!
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
@ReservoirDog ,
Hey dog!
Could you please point me at your stirring pump, and your venturi mods in your thread?
If you could start me on the correct page, that would be super A++!
Sorry, I would love to read your whole thread, but right now my time just flew out the window.
I am trying to learn these SIPs by reading forward from hear, but time for reading whole threads just disappeared.
Thanks very much!
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
@Mycelium Farmer , do you have a Biochar thread? And if not, could I please beg you kindly to start one?
We are trying to start an auto-sustainable eco-community in the Colombian Andes. Basically we are up near the rim of the Amazon Basin, and they are down lower, but the tribes in our valley have relatives down in the lowlands.
I will need to start a new thread when I get some time, but they have super-thick black topsoil. It has all kinds of nutrients (and I think volcanic ash), but it is super hard when dry (which it rarely is). I suspect a high clay content. I have heard that if you spread gypsm pellets, it can break down clay. We are hoping to have a full soil sample, etc., before purchase, but it looks pretty lush to me.
This is a different site in the same valley. The top half of the cut is topsoil, but we will have to loosen it. And we will need to amend a lot of acres over time.
It would be great to know how to make biochar and apply it correctly!
And could you please point me at your thread? Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #392
I am using them, just not through the reservoir.
I didn't have any issues when I applied it directly to the reservoir, it was just never very effective for me when I did so. Maybe, like you suggested before, reservoir nutes need to be chelated somehow, or maybe the jadam/knf nutes still need the microbes found in the soil to deliver them to the plant.
Whatever it is, even my most high powered nute, my FAA (fish amino acid) had little effect when delivered directly in the reservoir.
When I fertigate from above, I try to thoroughly saturate the media like I would if growing in a normal soil pot so the excess does drain into the reservoir and will be used in the subsequent few days. I've never had any smell issues this way, but my reservoirs are also not as big as yours.
I want to be totally organic with stuff I can grow myself on my property and don't want to spend any money on nutes. I also have a distaste for a pH pen. Don't know why as they're simple enough to use. Maybe something from my childhood.
Thanks, MF! But I'll bet yours is a larger burn operation than mine. I saw a very simple setup using a 55 gal drum propped up at an angle that was very low smoke. Once full it was righted and covered with a lid and left to cool down. Seems like one could make quite a bit with that method.
I've never disclosed it as it's pretty experimental and I don't have enough usage time with it to see if there are any down range issues with it. That said I have been pretty pleased so far.
Commercial soil producers spend lots of time and money balancing things out like moisture retention and drainability, cation exchange capacity, etc. I did none of that.
Mine is a mix of aged leaf mold, used mixed, sand, biochar, and perlite with some amendments like meals, stone dust, etc. and then topped with a cap of worm castings and more leaf mold.
The base is leaf mold as I have a strong dislike for CSPM for a variety of reasons. First, I don't like the fact that it becomes hydrophobic when it dries out and then takes a long time to rewet and I don't have hours to spend watering slowly enough to restore it. I also don't like the fact that it is acidic and throws off the pH of your mix requiring adjustments and amendments to get it back suitable for our plants. I get that that gives you the opportunity to add stuff like Gypsum and Oyster shell which swing the pH the other way around and bring stuff like calcium and magnesium to the mix, but I'd prefer to avoid those issues altogether.
I also don't like the way it is harvested since it takes many hundreds of years to produce so it really isn't all that sustainable. I know they control and limit the harvest each year, but still. It also isn't produced locally to me so that means trucking it around which also isn't all that environmentally great. That’s the same issue I have with coco, although that one seems to be much more sustainable. CSPM also doesn't offer the same amount and diversity of minerals as it breaks down, compared to my leaf mold. It also doesn't come loaded with its own microbes. And my leaf mold adds a bit of mycelium to the mix as well!
Did you not read my biochar post??
Mycelium Farmer
Commercial Cultivator
Hey Good Morning @Azimuth
When I had my right hand brain working with me last year, we were discussing the 55gall barrell tek. I think it may be more effective.... All we did was some clearing, light a few piles, and collect what usable bio char material was left over the next day. Didn't spend the extra effort to intentionally make bio char, and sometimes the bigger piles got way too hot and there was nothing left to collect bio char. We would get the most biochar left over if we added a lot of big stuff to the fire as it was dying down.
Enjoy the day man!
@el gringuito Good morning!
Take the time to go through the previous page of this thread. @Azimuth has laid out so much well-written information in this thread, you should go back and read from the start honestly. It's a solid investment of a read, especially if you are considering buying land for closed-loop style practices. I'm still working on reading it all.
But point to what I'm saying, and like @Azimuth mentioned, he laid out a lot of information on bio char in the previous page. He pretty much explained the process of how it's made too... take a good look and best of luck with your forward endeavors.
When I had my right hand brain working with me last year, we were discussing the 55gall barrell tek. I think it may be more effective.... All we did was some clearing, light a few piles, and collect what usable bio char material was left over the next day. Didn't spend the extra effort to intentionally make bio char, and sometimes the bigger piles got way too hot and there was nothing left to collect bio char. We would get the most biochar left over if we added a lot of big stuff to the fire as it was dying down.
Enjoy the day man!
@el gringuito Good morning!
Take the time to go through the previous page of this thread. @Azimuth has laid out so much well-written information in this thread, you should go back and read from the start honestly. It's a solid investment of a read, especially if you are considering buying land for closed-loop style practices. I'm still working on reading it all.
But point to what I'm saying, and like @Azimuth mentioned, he laid out a lot of information on bio char in the previous page. He pretty much explained the process of how it's made too... take a good look and best of luck with your forward endeavors.
Mycelium Farmer
Commercial Cultivator
I might relate to what you are saying with time out the window.
My advice.. don't let yourself get away with saying that for too long.
At some point you realize how much time you are losing by not knowing; By not doing the research; By not remembering something someone said in a conversation you took the time for, or in a thread a few years ago, etc.
This thread is worth the read, and just may shave hours off your days, or even days off your weeks in the future. This info can definitely save you from some headaches at the very least.
Sounds like you have already started your journey on research considering you are here.. wish you the best man.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hey Shroom!
Hahaha, yeah! I hear you.
Something about if you don't have twenty minutes to breathe and listen, then you need an hour? Haha.
Yeah, I get it!
I could really go for a breather right about now!
Yeah, I've got it pretty clear that Azi has some knowledge.
If this is the thread, I will read it! THANK YOU!!!
I hope to make time for the preceding page (and the whole thread) when I get time.
Happy shrooming!
Thanks! I am looking forward to reading Azi's thread, and yours.
Got to run, but I hope to take an hour breather soon!
Highya Azimuth,
Thank you for that article on Biochar. I remember reading about biochar a while ago. I didn't know about "charging it up", though. Glad for that. We use wood heat 24/7 so have a lot of ashes. In those ashes, are charcoal pieces. You see, I put live coals (small ones) in the ash pail that's made for that purpose. The coals stop burning when the oxygen is used up, leaving pieces of charcoal. During the winter, the ashes are spread onto all garden areas. Puts calcium in soil (plus other minerals). So this year one cannabis lady is showing a calcium deficiency. Must've not put enough, there. Go figure. Happy Smokin'
Thank you for that article on Biochar. I remember reading about biochar a while ago. I didn't know about "charging it up", though. Glad for that. We use wood heat 24/7 so have a lot of ashes. In those ashes, are charcoal pieces. You see, I put live coals (small ones) in the ash pail that's made for that purpose. The coals stop burning when the oxygen is used up, leaving pieces of charcoal. During the winter, the ashes are spread onto all garden areas. Puts calcium in soil (plus other minerals). So this year one cannabis lady is showing a calcium deficiency. Must've not put enough, there. Go figure. Happy Smokin'
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
if it works, which it does, what you're doing does make the most sense because you 'can't close lumpy loops' like mine. They just aren't loops!
I wonder if we could replace nitrates with frass fed/created with localized food waste, grocery/restaurant, that'd be a big loop to close and cut a lot of atmo carbon. Farmers could just come take delivery every season or month; my math tells me that someplace with the footprint of a v. small landfill would support multiple farming-intensive counties
I wonder if we could replace nitrates with frass fed/created with localized food waste, grocery/restaurant, that'd be a big loop to close and cut a lot of atmo carbon. Farmers could just come take delivery every season or month; my math tells me that someplace with the footprint of a v. small landfill would support multiple farming-intensive counties
- Thread starter
- #398
The ashes can be quite high in pH so can throw your readings off as much as a high acidic input can, just in the other direction, but I agree, the ashes can be quite good for the soil and for the mineral content they contain.
- Thread starter
- #399
The char doesn't break down in the soil, it lasts for thousands of years, sequestering the carbon that way. Food wastes will break down very quickly with microbes so won't help much in the way of carbon fixation.
As for organic forms of nitrates that's an entire new learning curve for most farmers. I saw a report that your govt is banning chemical ferts. Right in the middle of a worldwide food shortage. Idiots.
And it's going on in the Netherlands, and other locals as well. Almost like there is a worldwide effort by gov'ts to control the food supply and therefore the masses.
It's all by design. They all can't be that stupid. It's about govt control and moving us all to socialism.
All the more reason for us to control what we can and not rely on outside inputs as much as possible.
- Thread starter
- #400
Another round of making my olive oil extraction and found myself more seeds. 48 more in fact. At this rate I'm going to find more of the hidden ones than I did those that were obvious.
I'm up to 339 legit, dark colored seeds and a bunch more lighter ones from a plant flowered in a 1L container. Plus, I have two more seeded plants to harvest over the next couple of weeks.
Yikes! And I don't even usually grow from seed. Maybe I'll start a pheno hunt one or two at a time and see if I can find the traits I had a while back.
Guess I can get rid of the male...