Original source seeds from the 70's: Yes I have some

Happy New Year BigSur! A few days late but better than never! Someone say DP??? MMmmmmm.....love me some Durban! I am almost out of my Durban meds...but I have a couple plants of Durban x Alaskan Thunderfuck going that will have to scratch the itch until I run a plain Durban again.
 
BigSur said:
Found this while cruising strain reviews. I agree with all the strains I have grown or smoked from the list. Especially Acapulco Gold. It was never that strong IME and just a run of the mill Mexican weed. I never thought much of it back in the early 1970s. Of course, Guerrero is a large state, and a lot of different weed came out of there, including a pound of loose tops that I got in 1975 from there of the second best weed I have ever smoked to date. Most of these, including Blue Dream have to be grown right for sure. I grew Blue Dream and had poor results. It was OK, but I did not smoke much of it, like most haze hybrids that I have grown. And a lot of cuts are not what people think they are; they are S1 or F2 or some other strain entirely. In truth anyone can name a bean or plant whatever they want.

The overrated list is here:

The 9 Most Overhyped Cannabis Strains | Leafly
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I never tried Acapulco gold back in the day but last season I grew out 2 cuts given to me that a buddy grew from old seeds.

It is definitely a pure sativa and an extremely vigorous grower. Super late to flower, I just harvested it about a week ago.

The aroma is incredible. Smells like a penetrating lemon cleaner with zero dankness or skunkiness. The buds are extremely light and airy, almost non existent after drying. The high is almost non existent lol. The grower that passed it on to me said the high was “transparent”. that’s a pretty good description. It does seem have nice visual enhancements at high dosages.
There were no male Acapulco golds to make pure seeds, so we bred it to a punto rojo/mangobiche male and a Vitality male from Mr. Alkaline. The Acapulco x Colombian cross should make some 20 foot giants with an Irie high.
 
Van Stank said:
Happy New Year BigSur! A few days late but better than never! Someone say DP??? MMmmmmm.....love me some Durban! I am almost out of my Durban meds...but I have a couple plants of Durban x Alaskan Thunderfuck going that will have to scratch the itch until I run a plain Durban again.
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Durban-ATF hybrid sounds good. Probably a great combo for pain relief and lift off.
 
Graytail said:
I'm growing a Kalashnikov, and while researching Altai sativa, I ran across a study on the origins and history of Cannabis sativa. :Namaste:


An Analysis of Cannabis: Determining the Origin of the Superlative Weed

You know anything about the Russian Altai sativa, @BigSur ?

And then I went looking for Martin Booth ...

Cannabis, a History

:bongrip:
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As much as I like UC Davis ag and reading publications from them... these studies that you post are based on older studies based on even older studies. The Asian origin theory of Cannabis is pretty much blown out of the water with more recent studies and archeology done in Europe. Have a look at these papers posted online. The ones in Italian can be translated with Google Translate.

An article about Cannabis found on board the Punic War (Carthaginian) ship circa 200 BC:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._con_marihuana

"The long history of Cannabis and its cultivation by the Romans in central Italy, shown by pollen records from Lago Albano and Lago di Nemi" MERCURI A.M.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...d_Lago_di_Nemi

"Cannabis in the ancient Europe" GIORGIO SAMORINI
La canapa nell’antica Europa
 
What is now old school Cannabis history claims that either the ancient Greeks, Romans or later Arabs were the distributors of Cannabis in Europe from Asia Minor. And that those strains came from migrating humans that brought it from somewhere in central Asia. My growing landraces from the region has me convinced now that there is a Mediterranean 'sativa' sub species including the likes of landraces Lebanese Red, Greek Kalamata, Italian Red Calabrian, several Morocco strains, West Turkey strains, and Syrian and Egyptian strains. They are all early blooming and fast finishing sativas. They are different than any other sativas. They also likely came to the Mediterranean area before the the civilizations rose in ancient Greece, Phoenicia or Egypt. Like as far back as the end of the last ice age. Hemp scraps, seeds and pollen indicate that Cannabis was in Europe far earlier than previously thought. This is an archeological, historical/anthropological timeline including the European neolithic period and a minimum timeline of Cannabis in Europe:

200 BC: The Romans and Carthaginians grew it and used Cannabis for fiber and medicine. Back to at least the times of the Punic Wars, circa 200 BC.

And then we go way way way deeper in time...

1,700 BC Hemp seeds found in a grave in Romania

2,000 BC Woven hemp mats found in a woman's grave in Spain

3,300 BC Cannabis seeds found in Lithuania archeological dig

3,800 BC Hemp leaf imprints found on ceramics in central Europe along the Danube River

4,500 BC, Cannabis pollen found in Italy, from likely cultivation there at that time

5,600 BC: Hemp pollen found in Estonia along river banks

7,000-6,000 BC: Hemp seeds found in Romania in archeological digs

So my read from this is that Cannabis cultivation was frikk'in rampant in Europe going back at least 9,000 years, and it likely grew wild there before that. So Cannabis strains in the Mediterranean area are (or were) indigenous to that area. They were not brought in from Asia Minor, or anywhere else in Asia... by the Greeks, the Romans or the Arabs by established trading routes. Cannabis was already present and being cultivated when the ancient civilizations rose up in Europe!
 
I do not know about the Altai Mtns, or any sativas from there. Sorry. In my recent search and seed trades for more Mediterranean landrace strains, I have found out that there was a strain called Red Calabrian, a Italian landrace strain that was grown in Italy like Kalamata was in Greece. So now I am looking for Red Calabrian as well. I had never heard of it before. There has been recent revival of a strain called Red Calabrian, but that has supposedly been hybridized with Northern Lights. The HORROR! DO WE HAVE TO F*CKING CROSS EVERYTHING WITH SKUNK, OG KUSH AND NORTHERN F*ING LIGHTS? All Northern Lights does is put me to sleep. Real NL from here in the PNW. Completely overrated strain, in my book, unless you want a sleep medication. It seems that the majority of people want couch lock strains like they want to be addicted to opiates these days. Give me Durban or give me... well, something that does not give me couch lock.

Viva sativa!

For that matter, how can Northern Lights, be "a pure indica descendant of Afghani and Thai landrace strains"? That is what the 'all knowledgeable' over on Leafly say. Thai landraces are pure sativas. Not that sativas and indicas are that much different genetically, as we figured out here earlier in this thread. But really? It seems that there is a conspiracy to completely eradicate sativas the world over and have only indica hybrids left to put the world to sleep with.
 
What little I can find about Altai is that it is a strain grown in Mongolia and in Russia near Mongolia. They found seeds in a grave there that are like 2,500 years old. Supposition at the time of the find was that made them the oldest, and thus the likely source of Cannabis sativa plants. We know that is not the case now though, do we not? Cultivated Cannabis grows were located in Italy that date back 6,500 years, so THAT could be the source of Cannabis, yes? Cannabis itialia! Prego.
 
Well, as stated in one of the Italian research papers above, its all about egos and adoration when it comes to scientific research. As said in the Italian paper on The History of Cannabis in Europe,

The situation was confused because of a certain chauvinism on the part of several researchers, in the distorted perspective of defending or supporting specific geographical areas or specific human cultures.

The paradigms (mass population beliefs) become skewed as a result. Like Refer Madness and the banning of weed in the 1930s. It is a propaganda campaign that is still going on today. As a black market item both highly politicized and religiously vilified, it remains vulnerable to information being distorted about it. Even now that it is legal in a lot of places, it seems that weed is only being exploited for cash. Or for egos and fame.
 
We are in a state of transition with weed, and thus laws, information, beliefs, and paradigms are all in a state of flux. From my perspective, weed is moving toward corporate control under a motive for profit and greed, with governments only too happy to play along and collect taxes. My home county of Monterey in California is a perfect example. In that county there is the Monterey County Commercial Cannabis Business tax. The locals there voted in HUGE taxes on Cannabis growing to the tune of $15 a sq foot of canopy and that was due to increase to $25 a sq ft in 3 more years. The county has since cut that exorbitant tax down to $8/$5 a square foot. That is a per year tax on indoor/greenhouse growing. Any other Cannabis business in the county is taxed at a rate of 10% a year of gross receipts. Gross, not net. This is on top of the California marijuana growers tax of $9.25 per oz of dry Cannabis flower, and $2.75 per oz of trim. Also there is an annual permit and license fee for growers on a sliding scale, which is REALLY expensive. Commercial sales of marijuana in California are also subject to an excise tax of 15% on top of local sales taxes which average about 8% in the state. Also Califirnia retailers and processors are licensed and have annual permit fees on a sliding scale that are prohibitive. Monterey County even taxes you for growing your own weed. You have to get a permit to grow your own weed and pay a $170 fee in Monterey Co. for the permit. One time only though, unless you change something.

Compared to Monterey Co, CA we look great in Oregon. Here the grower is not taxed other than the canopy permit cost per year, which is $1.53/$0.40 per sq ft per year in/out. There is no sales tax in Oregon and the state excise tax on weed sales is 17% and the county tax is 3%. There is no permit required to grow your own weed here. Annual retail store and processing fees are also pretty low in Oregon, about $5,000 a year for most business. Unlike California:

California growers association annual fees (the state of greed):
What are the fees for licenses?
 
Cool beans!

I use white rice in small plastic zip lock bags in plastic lock top boxes. Cheap and easy. I am cataloging my collection again now. Over 120 strains. I managed to land two strains of landrace Cambo Reds recently. I also got the 1970s Saipan beans, a strain from Senegal, and a New Guinea landrace. I am still looking for Greek Kalamata Red. I also found out about an Italian Red Calabria landrace that is now on my want list. Roman weed!
 
BigSur said:
As a black market item both highly politicized and religiously vilified, it remains vulnerable to information being distorted about it. Even now that it is legal in a lot of places, it seems that weed is only being exploited for cash. Or for egos and fame.
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I've been going back and reading my HASHISH! book lately and it reads like a world history as far as the way cannabis is used as leverage for political motives and vilification of peoples. The story of cannabis is a story of the human journey.

Even with legalization these heirloom strains need to be preserved by the small clandestine growers that are true to the herbal experience not the profit motive.
 
Actually there is growing momentum for preserving regular seeds, heirlooms and landraces. Several of us are working on starting a forum for global trading of landraces and heirlooms. I am also working with a start-up company in Europe that intends to distribute small breeder genetics from people like me. We shall see how it goes. I threw out the idea to them as being somewhat far fetched, and as it has turned out, they have already been working on this exact distribution model for some time now. Like minds...

I have also been approached by several larger seed companies that want to buy out my choice genetics, but I have declined. I do not sell beans! But I may be doing that in the near future if the seed distribution model gets up and running. We shall see... Big Sur Holy Seed Co.? Though comercial weed growing is banned in Big Sur, as Monterey Co. will only grant licenses in the Salinas Valley where they are easy to monitor. So called "legal weed" is such BS. Its still regulated to death.
 
Move to Oklahoma...seriously. Its the "Wild west" in so many ways. Our laws do not include any truth in advertising, no terpene or thc testing, no limits on dispensaries etc. Local communities trying to get taxes on sales are getting sued as we speak. Actually you might wait until it all gets sorted out. One ridiculous aspect of our law requires all marijuana to have originated here? Like i just found these seeds on a wild hemp plant growing by the Canadian river??? Its a little disconcerting to go buy something called "kush" and not know the first thing about its true ancestry or if it was sprayed with chemicals etc and still have to pay more than i can get tested, true origin weed in Colorado. It would almost come out ahead to drive to Trinidad or Pueblo and buy but i still would be breaking the law if i brought any back here...thats ridiculous.
I would love to see a seed exchange out there some where, i recently placed an order from Ace and another from Greenpoint. The order from Greenpoint is here, Ace sent an email stating the Spanish government was cracking down and would prefer sending by standard mail...they would not reimburse if certified mail were seized in customs...? So...i really dont need any more seeds but...I want them and would like a small supply of assorted genetics for the future because i think they will get harder to come by.
I really cant drop 200 dollars for Snow High or Swami so i guess i will have to make do...and buy some lights
 
Amusing about Ace and Spain. I am not looking to distribute from Spain. In Holland and Spain they are clamping down now it seems. Turkey may be the Cannabis seed selling/trading center of the future. In the UK things are opening up on seed sales and trades.

I have Swami's best genetics, but I did not get them from them. Seeds prices are indeed ridiculous. They have been from day one, really. Back around 1980 my oldest brother was trying to get me to buy seeds from Nevil's catalog in Holland. I was like, WTF? I have a box of seeds in the freezer that I got for "free"! Well, I had to buy the weed to get the seeds, but they were essentially free. People also gave me beans, and I gave people beans. No one sold them. I would have loved to see the looks on people's faces if I showed up with oz's of Colombian Gold seeds to sell. That would have been a good laugh! One oz of 'lombo gold beans now? Oooooohhhhhh la la! Lets see, large Colombian seeds, say 50 seeds per gram, or 1,400 per oz. At $5 a bean, that is $7,000 !!! For one oz! An oz of Colombian Gold was about $40 the later half of the 1970s. They typically had 200-300 seeds in them, as the Colombians excelled at seedy weed. So bag weed then in seeds alone was worth $1,000 to $1,500 in seed 'value' today. *cough* And the weed was "free."
 
BigSur said:
Amusing about Ace and Spain. I am not looking to distribute from Spain. In Holland and Spain they are clamping down now it seems. Turkey may be the Cannabis seed selling/trading center of the future. In the UK things are opening up on seed sales and trades.

I have Swami's best genetics, but I did not get them from them. Seeds prices are indeed ridiculous. They have been from day one, really. Back around 1980 my oldest brother was trying to get me to buy seeds from Nevil's catalog in Holland. I was like, WTF? I have a box of seeds in the freezer that I got for "free"! Well, I had to buy the weed to get the seeds, but they were essentially free. People also gave me beans, and I gave people beans. No one sold them. I would have loved to see the looks on people's faces if I showed up with oz's of Colombian Gold seeds to sell. That would have been a good laugh! One oz of 'lombo gold beans now? Oooooohhhhhh la la! Lets see, large Colombian seeds, say 50 seeds per gram, or 1,400 per oz. At $5 a bean, that is $7,000 !!! For one oz! An oz of Colombian Gold was about $40 the later half of the 1970s. They typically had 200-300 seeds in them, as the Colombians excelled at seedy weed. So bag weed then in seeds alone was worth $1,000 to $1,500 in seed 'value' today. *cough* And the weed was "free."
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Yes I remember those days as well, i was never a seed collector and remember when my growing buddies were convinced the afghan was the answer...turned put everyone else did too.
I was never a big columbian gold fan but would love to get some of that red bud again.
 
From a post I made on another forum today, regarding a statement made that Turkish hash was made from plants that were said to be fairly low in quality... I thought I would post it here for a view of why I saved, search for and grow landrace strains.

Funny, they say that about a lot of the Bekaa Valley Lebanese weed as well (being of low quality) but I have found that growing it here it is of rather high quality. Quality, as it were, is a fickle thing and highly personal. If you consider one hit 30% THC weed as high quality, then Lebanese pales in comparison. But if you enjoy a good medium potency weed with an easy to manage high with a nice floral terpene profile, then Lebanese is the ticket. I smoke more Lebanese landrace than anything else. The else being right now in my stash box are strains like OG Kush, original White Widow, Blue Dream, Grape Ape, GDP, Northern Lights, Durban Poison, Maui Waui, Cindy 99, Green Crack, Blue Magoo, Blueberry, etc. etc. I do not always want to get mind warped, slammed, jacked up or fall asleep. Lebby has an even high that is comfortable and pleasant. It also puts me in a creative mental state and eases my pains. For me it is the best all-around strain. For this reason I am collecting Mediterranean and north African strains to compare it to, like Sinai, Moroccan, Turkish, Ethiopian, Syrian, and my want for Greek and Italian, and even a Spanish landrace if it exists.

That said I do like smoking Durban Poison in the morning to get me going, and I like Grape Ape and Maui Waui as party weed. I smoke GDP and Northern Lights if I cannot get to sleep at night. My spectrum of medical and rec weed at the moment. I did a hybrid of Grape Ape and Durban Poison landrace a few years back and I call it "Dr Feelgood". It is a winner. It lifts you up and puts you in a great frame of mind. I smoke it if I am in the dumps. It always picks me up. Good depression weed. Somewhat speedy, like Durban, but with a twist.
 
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