lazyfish
Well-Known Member
Yes! Great question. I have been wondering about drying as well. I store seeds with a few grains of dried rice to help keep moisture at a lower level.
Original source seeds from the 70's: Yes I have some
- Thread starter Big Sur
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- #542
BigSur I’m wondering if you can say a little more detail about your seed storing methods? I keep mine in the freezer as well and that works fine. But I’m reluctant to bring them in and out much for fear of problems from freezing/thawing, and condensation. This kind of limits my time admiring my seed collection - it made me wonder how you organize yours. Cheers
My seed storage is not complicated. Originally I put them into small manila envelopes marked with the date and where it was from, and the quality and potency of the high. I also marked the price I paid for them. I put those into a plastic box and wrapped that in plastic. I kept them at 0 deg. F. I have thawed them during transport, but I did not open the bags or box during that time. Freezing and thawing has not been a real issue. It seems that heat and moisture are the real seed killers. The scientific studies that I have read about freezing cannabis seeds all say that the lower the temps, the less that moisture is an issue. So that is why you want them at 0 deg. F or lower. I kept them in a frost-free freezer for 20 years with little impact on germination. Now I use a chest freezer that is not frost free.
Condensation can be an issue if they are cold and it is warm and humid out of the box. Several ways around that. One is to put them in the refer and let them warm to 40 deg F and then take them out on a dry day (say less than 20% humidity). Another option is to take them out when it is freezing outside and look at them there. Also you can thaw out your beans to room temps before you open the boxes and bags if you are doing a major re-sort or count. Then put them all back and freeze them again. This is not convenient if you want to oogle over your seeds a lot. I do not oogle over my seeds though. I catalog them and freeze them. I take them out, pull the beans I want quickly, and then replace them in the freezer. If I am doing a re-organization or re-sort, which I need to do soon here, I thaw them on a dry (less than 20% humidity) day and go through them and re-freeze them after they are re-wrapped and sealed.
Before freezing fresh seeds, I cool cure the seeds on trimmed buds. I dry the buds at 50% humidity at 70 deg. F. in open cardboard soda can trays for a week or two. Then I put them in open paper bags for a few weeks at 50% humidity at 60 deg. F. until they are dry to the touch. Then I pop the seeds out of the buds, and put the seeds in envelopes with dry uncooked white rice and let the resin harden for a month or two at 60 deg F. Then they are counted into small plastic micro baggies with equal amounts of new dry rice and labeled, and put into hard shell plastic snap lock lid containers, and then into sealed plastic freezer bags, and into the freezer they go. Many of my seeds have been thawed and re-frozen over the years. No real issues with that. I have gotten up to 100% germination rates with 40 year old seeds. If I am planning on trading or planting fresh seeds, I store them in the refer at 40 deg F. for up to a year in the micro plastic baggies with rice, and that goes into a plastic sealed lid jar with lots of rice in it. Dry is critical at 40 deg. F. Dry is not so critical at 0 deg F. Do not store seeds above 50 deg F. or they will go off in a few years if kept dry, and sooner in humid environments.
Wayback Sunday...
Here's a film from the 70's...
WEED...
they even score cambo red...
Here's a film from the 70's...
WEED...
they even score cambo red...
Thanks so much man! Great info as always.
I'mOne
Well-Known Member
In your opinion where can one buy real sativa seeds? Are most of them extinct? Are the african varieties the ones left untainted by indica genes?
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- #546
sativas in Africa? Not likely. Arjan of GHS has been trading his fem-auto-indica crosses to the locals in Africa for many years now. Most landraces there are tainted with indica genetics. Durban Poison is extinct or nearly extinct in Durban, SA now according to my friends there. It has been replaced with Swazi genetics. Pure Swazi is at least still sativa though. Morocco landraces are being replaced with Pakistani indicas. Mexico and Colombian landrace sativa strains are pretty much extinct in those countries as well. They have been replaced with California/Holland bred strains. The people I talk to in Central and South America say that us hippies are the only ones left with the old sativa genetics. Most of the sativas I see online are tainted with indica genetics, or they are bred locally in more northern climates and have adapted to growing under lights.
One of the few places I would trust for having untainted standard sativa genetics are RSC, the Real Seed Company. I have grown several of their strains, and they are real landraces from around the world, and most are sativas. They have a line of Himalayan, Indian and Middle East sativas. Lebanese is typically listed as an indica, but many of us believe it is a sativa, with a sativa pheno and an indica-like pheno. Ace sells Lebby as a sativa now, and they have several pure sativas available. Seeds of Africa lists a lot of sativas. But they take forever to ship beans. Like months. If it is summer the beans can cook sitting in some warehouse or truck. Maybe if you order SOA seeds through a third party? Recently I went looking online for pure sativas and sativa bred hybrids, and there are very few these days. Barneys has only one 100% sativa strain listed. RQS has none, an no regular photos listed that I could find. GHS only lists autos and fems. As you suggest. most sativas are extinct today, at least in their native regions. Not only are landraces becoming rare, but sativas are also becoming rare. After that, even regular and photos are becoming rare. They have bred everything to source indoor growers that want OG Kush hybrid auto fems.
In my day all we had were regular photo landrace/cultivars sativa seeds from Mexico, Thailand, Colombia, Panama, Cambodia, VietNam, India, Jamaica, Hawaii and Africa. Other than hashish, which had no seeds, indica and indica hybrids did not come on board for me until about 1978. And even then they were rather rare.
I'mOne
Well-Known Member
Yes...I was around then too, but dropped out of the scene for 30 years...i was curious about the suppliers, Barneys has Laughing Buddha? Ace lists Malawi and a few others like the Honduran and Panama. I was particularly curious about RSC and Seeds of Africa. I wouldnt mind buying a few landrace sativa seeds and sitting on them for future uses. I actually would like a few pure indicas as well. I think you are correct, before long there will be none left.
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- #548
PurpleGunRack
Well-Known Member
@BigSur Have you grown RSC indoors, or some other pure sativas you can recommend for indoor growing and morning/daytime use?
I'm doing Malawi from Ace, and the Durban and Silver Haze from Sensi (Black Friday offer) next run, but would like something more authentic that works indoors
What's you take on the level of ''tainted'' genetics in the SE Asian sativas ?
I'm doing Malawi from Ace, and the Durban and Silver Haze from Sensi (Black Friday offer) next run, but would like something more authentic that works indoors
What's you take on the level of ''tainted'' genetics in the SE Asian sativas ?
Morglie
Well-Known Member
I've grown one of the Kerala recently and have another that just popped. The first one I ran was a wild sativa that ended up throwing nanners so I cut it about 16 weeks in. It would have gone over 20 easily to finish. It definitely seemed legit, but not very tame for indoors.@BigSur Have you grown RSC indoors, or some other pure sativas you can recommend for indoor growing and morning/daytime use?
I'm doing Malawi from Ace, and the Durban and Silver Haze from Sensi (Black Friday offer) next run, but would like something more authentic that works indoors
What's you take on the level of ''tainted'' genetics in the SE Asian sativas ?
I'mOne
Well-Known Member
Which Kerala strain did you pop? Have you smoked any of it?
- Thread starter
- #552
@BigSur Have you grown RSC indoors, or some other pure sativas you can recommend for indoor growing and morning/daytime use?
I'm doing Malawi from Ace, and the Durban and Silver Haze from Sensi (Black Friday offer) next run, but would like something more authentic that works indoors
What's you take on the level of ''tainted'' genetics in the SE Asian sativas ?
sativas as a rule like to grow tall and leggy. They are not easily tamed to grow in small confined spaces. I have done most of my growing outdoors. I use MH lights now to start my seeds/cuttings in the early spring and I move them into the greenhouses for summer growing. I may or may not move them back under lights in the early fall to finish them, weather depending. This year I did not have to do that as we had a warm late fall. My low this year is only 32 F. deg. Just freezing. Which is very rare here. Snow levels in the Cascades are really low so far this year. El Nino? That said, Lebanese should do well indoors under lights. The Lebanese I bred from Blue Hemp and RSC finishes in mid September. Lebanese is good day weed. Many say that it is an indica, but it grows more like a sativa plant and has a sativa high to it. Durban should be OK under lights, but flowering can vary. The retro strain I bred from Dutch Durban x landrace Durban finishes outdoors in mid October. They like to grow tall and thin.
I have not gown my Kerala ganja or other South India ganja beans yet. They are said to be very late and long finishing. I am going to test a northeast Italian friend's method of starting late and long bloom Colombian and Vietnam Black strains in the late winter under lights here this coming year, and move them out into the GH to bloom at the equinox. Then I will let then bloom through the summer. If that works I will use the same method to grow Zac Purple, Kerala, and other late finishers here. Otherwise it gets too cold too early here (except this eyar) and I have to finish large plants indoors under more lights, which is expensive. I have flowered plants before that I started indoors under lights and sized up, and set them to blooming outdoors at the equinox and they bloomed right through the summer solstice here, when we get light 18/6. They do not re-veg. I tested that method with White Widow, OG Kush, and Blue Dream one year. I harvested at the end of June, and only after harvesting all the flowers did they re-veg. Then they bloomed again in the late summer. Double harvest. With the long finishers I would only get a single harvest, but hopefully well finished and viable seeds bred IBL. Which means that I have to run and bloom males as well, which can be tricky. I bloomed my Maui gals early with light dep this year, but I did not light dep the males. I did manage to get some early male blooms on the Maui studs and used that to pollinate the wahine. I got a good seed run from them. But it was an oversight. Timing is everything.
Morglie
Well-Known Member
It's the one from RSC. I've tried a bit of it. I can feel the onset of a nice buzz but it fades in about 20-30 minutes. It was nowhere close to being done. It smells like fresh peas straight out of the pod.
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- #554
I have no idea really. After the VietNam war ended and we were ordered to leave Subic Bay, I have not seen any weed from SE Asia. Word is that in Thailand the locals still have the old genetics, but the government came down hard on Thai weed growing. So it went underground there but more recently the Thai government has loosened up on growing and using weed for religious rituals. Word was also that original Thai genetics went across the Mekong River to Laos, but that is a very obscure and dark place that no one seems to talk about. RSC has a Thai cross of Thai x Yunnan (a province in SE China north of Myanmar, Laos and Burma) and a Thai-Burma/Myanmar landrace. I do not know how close either is to original skinny Highland Thai stick weed, but likely they are close and there are no indica genetics in them, as they have not been exporting a lot of weed from there after the 1980s.
Cambodian Red was a variety of good and bad local grown weed from Cambodia and South VietNam. Like in Mexico in the 1970s, there was a lot of average and below average weed on the streets in Saigon. At least according to my friends that did military tours there. Cambo Red had a good reputation, so everyone wanted to call everything Cambo Red. It seems that again, like in Mexico, the best stuff grown in Cambodia and VietNam was exported, or sold to the US military. Which really amounted to the same thing, as the military did most of the mule work out of SE Asia. I have not heard good things about the weed in Cambodia now. My search for Cambo red seeds has come up empty. The guy that was banned here contacted me on another forum happy to find me there and said he had a line of Cambo Red. Then he promptly said goodbye and gave no reason for cutting off all contact. *shrug* Aussies for you. We speak the same words in English, but they have completely different meanings here and down under. Half of them seem to be pissed off at America as well, and side with China.
So in general I think that the original SE Asian genetics are still there. I do not see why they would import Arjan's fem or auto genetics or indica from Holland. The hard part is getting the genetics out of SE Asia. Thailand is looking into legalizing medical marijuana for domestic use and export. South Korea is also legalizing medical weed, but they do not grow it there and they want to import it. So there is likely going to be a medical Mj supply line between SK and Thailand. Or between SK and Canada and/or Colombia, which also want to export marijuana.
PurpleGunRack
Well-Known Member
I smoked quite a bit of Red Lebanon hash around 2000, very heady high, giggly stuff, definitely not Indica dominant
Very overlooked method, in indoor growing as well
If you have the veg and bloom tent/room combo and HAVE to move the veg plants into flower and the plants in your flower room have 2-3 weeks to go, swap them around and run the flowering plants in the veg room, as you say no re-veg, the potentially cooler environment in the veg room might even improve terpene production.
24/0 at 500 micromoles gives the plants the same as DLI as 12/12 at 1000 micromoles.
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- #556
Very overlooked method, in indoor growing as well
If you have the veg and bloom tent/room combo and HAVE to move the veg plants into flower and the plants in your flower room have 2-3 weeks to go, swap them around and run the flowering plants in the veg room, as you say no re-veg, the potentially cooler environment in the veg room might even improve terpene production.
24/0 at 500 micromoles gives the plants the same as DLI as 12/12 at 1000 micromoles.
I have always wondered why they grow blooming plants at 12/12 all the way though blooming. It seems they would get a larger harvest growing under 18/6 once the blooms are set. I know from listening to DJ Short and JD Short that Europeans tend to favor and use red shifted lower K HPS lights, whereas here in the states we tend to use blue shifted higher K MH lights. The Shorts claim that HSP tends to give weed a sour taste, and MH tends to give weed a more sweet taste. I cannot say as I have not noticed the difference between the two HID lights (I have switchable HID 400W ballasts). I prefer and use MH lights most of the time myself, even when finishing plants in the fall. I also use 18/6 light timing then. They do not revert to veg until I cut off all the flowers and dose them with 24/0 light cycles for a week. My bet would be that the flowers emit an auxin (plant hormone) to keep themselves in flower once they start blooming.
PurpleGunRack
Well-Known Member
They do
It's called Florigen, and you should be able to turn a vegging plant permanently under 18/6 only by appliyng sap from a flowering plant, should even work with sap from a different species.
PurpleGunRack
Well-Known Member
Yep, here it's almost a religion that you use MH 18/6 for veg and HPS 12/12 for flower.
Luckily people like you with a curious mind and a scientific approach are greatly helping to kill all the many cannabis myths
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Hmm I only use LEDs now, but a lot of people continue with HID lights here.
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- #560
Yep, here it's almost a religion that you use MH 18/6 for veg and HPS 12/12 for flower.
Luckily people like you with a curious mind and a scientific approach are greatly helping to kill all the many cannabis myths
Well, one can only hope. The paradigms are strong with weed, and the BS is piled high and deep.
