Original source seeds from the 70's: Yes I have some

lazyfish said:
Do you have pics of those lebanese? I would love to see one.
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Here is the difference between the Lebanese land race sativa and indica pheno leaves. Sativa is the smaller one, indica is the larger, same age plants. Not quite an indica fat leaf, more like a hemp leaf. The sativas have a darker red stem as well (male and females that I have of them). The indicas also have a floppy leaf thing going on (I will post photos showing that later).

Lebbies_indica_vs_sativa.JPG
 
Here is the Lebanese land race indica pheno that I have in a 15 gallon tub to keep the size down. This was at the first week of flowering 2 weeks ago. My brother has 2 more of these and they are 9 feet tall now! So much for short or dwarf plants from Lebanon... if you give them bat guano, super phosphate, kelp, Ironite, blood meal, and prep the soil like he does and plant them in the ground? They go bonkers. This is the floppy indica leaf posture more common in the evening.

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And the more upright indica leaf posture of the same exact plant in the morning (the sativas did not do this floppy leaf transition thing). This was taken just before flowering started. I hope to harvest this one in early October. I am going to let her run into amber trichomes to simulate the red lebby effect if I can here this year.

Lebby_indica_pheno_17.JPG
 
And here is a cola of the Lebanese land race sativa pheno gal (from Swiss Blue Hemp seeds) fully ripe and ready to harvest in early September. She started flowering in early July. The thichomes are still clear to milky white, but the seeds are fat and ripe. I was going to clone it but she bloomed in July so I do not think I can keep this one from blooming with 20/4 light. I have cloned the best of her indica siblings though.

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The early smoke is good sativa clear headed high, and this stuff works wonders on my migraines. So this is the wonder strain that I was looking for in a high CBD / high THC strain. All these modern CBD crosses do nothing for my migraines. This stiff is old school and has a good high to it. Yes, it is not killer couch lock weed, as it has CBD which knocks the THC effects down. 2 hit weed. Works for me. I have enough seeds to guarantee a supply for the rest of my life now.
 
And man, does my house smell of fresh harvested weed tonight! I have 8 boxes like the one above drying in the back room now. No skunky myrcene in it, mostly a limonene and floral smell (maybe Alpha Bisabolol?). This strain is definitely a low odor strain. And I did not have to fight with or pay off the Hezbollah to grow this stuff either.
 
Blazin Waffle said:
Hey there BS! Hope all is well on the home front.
Just wondering, with your experience with different sativas, do hemp sativas have dank smells and trichs??
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Hard to qualify what is a hemp sativa. The genetics showing up in strains is all over the map. What is thought to be a sativa is often times more indica, and what was thought to be indica is more sativa. Hemp, as it turns out, is actually genetically closer to indica than sativa. They all have plenty of trichomes. They just mature at different rates. As for smell...

Mexican sativas tend to reek less than say, Mendocino indica crosses do. The Lebanese (so called indica) strains reek far less as well, though it is a matter of perspective. They still have a lot of terpenes, just not high in myrcene, caryophyllene and humuline, which is the skunk and funk smell. The Lebbies smell more like lemon and vanilla. Durban Poison, the real land race sativa Durbans, reek in a different way all to themselves. Durban is high in limonene, humulene and linalool with moderate myrcene. The local worked Durban cuts have far less reek to them though. GDP also has a strong smell, and is high in caryophyllene, myrcene, pinene, and humulene. Skunk #1 is high in myrcene, humaline, and caryophyllene.

Sativas grown in Big Sur early on were high in pinene. Local lore then was that they though that the plants picked up the smell from the Monterey pines that they were grown around. Not so... Cannabis plants generate the terpenes from the same building blocks, and pines get their smell of the same alpha-pinene, but they do not transfer the terpenes to the Cannabis plants. Mexican sativas are variable and tend to be high in one or two of these: pinene, linonene, and caryophyllene.
 
According to my book Cannabis Medicine, the basic terpene smells are:

Pinene: pine
Limonene: citrus
Caryophyllene: pepper and clove
Myrcene: lemongrass and mango
Linalool: lavender
Humuline: hops (beer)

But when you combine these in different ways, you get completely different smells from them.
 
Blazin Waffle said:
So off the top, I can't remember if you've been by my journal, but I have a pretty rad sativa I got from a feral plant in Iowa.
I'm just trying to figure these ladies out lol
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I will have a look at your journal. Wild Iowa weed could be anything. Hemp strains are a different breed than what I am used to growing, but as it turns out Lebanese strains have a lot of hemp genes in them (resulting in a high CBD and THC combination). The indica leaf structure is very similar to hemp plants, but they bloom in straight stalk clusters rather than willy nilly like hemp seems to do here. The Lebbies also have red stems and they are said to turn rather red in cooler fall temps. I am hoping I can get that effect here with my indica pheno that is still blooming. It has been VERY hot here this summer, so no color other than red stems on the Lebbies so far; Swiss, RSC, male, female, indica or sativa phenos.
 
After harvesting the first of my Lebanese strains here (the very early Blue Hemp sativa pheno), I do not see the need to make hash out of them. They have good character as bud. So far with the one I have harvested it is more on the mild side with the high CBD, but they are a cure for my migraines. I had a migraine forming this morning, and I smoked a few hits of fresh dried tops and an hour later the migraine was GONE! Poof! The high is good too. A sativa uplifting high, no speedy feeling, and no cluttered head effect. Very high grade medicine for me. These tops smoke just fine as they are. I have over a hundred fresh seeds from this plant, and more in the making on the now preggo indica babe.

By the way, this Lebby strain averts or nullifies my need and earlier attempts to grow hemp strains to cross with high THC strains in hopes of achieving what I have with these Lebby grows. At least the sativa pheno, but the male flowers and the early tops from the indica blooms seem to be similar in effect. They are far better than any CBD/THC strains that I have bought here in Oregon as well. I will likely be growing at least one of these Lebbies a year from here on out. Legal or not. Its legal here now, for medical and rec growing. Though they curbed the medical growing now to 6 plants from 6 medical plus 4 rec plants in Oregon. Not much of a gain with a medical grow card any more, other than being able to also have 12 clones at any time. I might have 13 here now though... I have cloned all three of the indica pheno RSC Lebbies and they are rooting nicely under 20/4 lights. All of them are tall stature plants, and one is an 8 foot monster.
 
Been VERY busy lately with family issues and harvest season. My rather large harvest, and helping several others harvesting their bud.

Also as I cannot post here about trading seeds, I have been doing that on some other forums. Like OG.
 
So, now that harvest is over and Christmas is done with, and other stuff taken care of... I have a few strains running this winter under lights, a Grape Ape cut that I got last summer, and which produced exceptional resinous bud that is medicine for me, as it knocks out back and muscle pain. It also does not put me to sleep like GDP does. It was a fast grower with reasonable harvest time outdoors (early October). I also have a new GDP cut that I got in trade. I also have my new seed from crosses last year, the Lebanese IBL crosses, a Dutch Durban Poison x ZA Landrace Durban Poison cross and a Grape Ape x ZA Durban Poison cross. I will grow these out, but I also have a lot of new landrace seeds that I have traded for last year. Of these, I am debating which to grow. Punto Creepy from Costa Rica? South India Kerala Gold? Or one of my old Colombian golds or reds that I posted here earlier? I presume these are all really late bloom and finishers, and I have a method that I want to use to get them to bloom in the Spring, and hopefully carry the bloom though summer and into the fall for a finish that can be harvested in Oregon before the rains return in October. Decisions decisions.
 
Dear Sur,

Hello from the PNW!

So which did you decide to grow out? I am voting for the Colombian Red.

Really think you can harvest in Oct??? I need to ask how???? Light Deprivation?

I love what you do. Wish there were more pics, though. I am ultimately interested in sativa landraces, bummer tolive in OR sometimes....

. Have you heard of cobbing/ fermenting weed?
 
BigSur said:
As for what I am going to do with these seeds... too many shady characters out there and I am wise to scams. I mean, I dealt in the weed trade for 10 years and I am street savvy. I also was involved in the Silicon Valley hey daze and I was an engineer at several start-up companies, and one that went public. Talk about being screwed from 12 directions. So I am wise to smiling lawyers and promises of a golden age to come, and all the BS that that entails. I also grew medical weed for a group of lawyers here. They supplied their own seeds; they were not interested in mine. But they were after a specific high.

The weed laws keep changing in Oregon (pretty much on a daily basis), and it seems that now vendors will be selling seeds legally here at some point. So I may get a growers license and grow and cross these seeds myself. I can grow these puppies out and self pollinate them for keeping true landrace genetics. The cost of licenses and a pair of 100x50 greenhouses would require that I make a reasonable amount of money from the venture, but that way I could sell landrace, heirloom and early cross seeds after next fall's harvest (I would only grow outdoors).

Its either that, or start a joint venture with someone. Again, trades for modern seeds do not really appeal to me. Those seeds that are already available out there do not really appeal to me. I do not want to sell my seeds now and watch someone else make a fortune off of my collection either. Weed is becoming a bazillion dollar business now. I am still thinking this out. Licensing in Oregon does not begin until Jan. 4, 2016. Sales start Oct. 1 at medical weed stores, but I bet they run out of bud in 3 days, tops. The small medical supply cannot support the full recreational market here. Also there will not be enough commercially grown bud to sell come Jan 4. either when the 25% sales tax on weed and sales at pot shops begins here. It will take time to ramp up and the real bud will not become available until the outdoor harvest next fall.
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Simply put, I for one don't really care if you get rich. I personally hope that you do and in the process are able to regenerate the genetics that have been the backbone of the pot industry since the 60's and 70's. I want to wish you the best of luck and let you know that a ready-made business is just waiting for you to open your doors. There are some of us that have dabbled in genetics enough to know that when you cross pure individuals of different strains, one has a better than average chance of producing an F1 individual that is better than the two individual strains that originally were crossed. Might not breed on all that well, but the toking will insist that you make that cross again (just for you and your close friends pleasure). There are a lot of people hoping for your success.
 
If you start producing pure landrace and some crosses I would like to purchase some.

If you get the business up and running let us know, I am sure more than just myself would like to be a customer.

Thanks
 
So, I am germinating some Maui Waui from 1978 now, the so called Cherry Bomb strain. I am playing Hawaiian music so the seeds feel at home. My brother wants to grow that this year, as he lived on Maui in 1978. I will likely let the best male live and seed some out.

I also have two strains of Vietnamese Black to grow as well this year. Said to be the same strain that the stain Willie Nelson was bred from, it has high levels of THCv which I am after. I love Durban Poison, and THCv is what puts the WAKE in wake n' bake.

I am also running my Double Durban and Durban Ape seed crosses here this year to test them, and the GDP along with the VN Black. The Maui wahinas will be at my brother's and some Lebanese layovers from last year at my nephew's, with some Grape Apes. The Oregon distributed growing system.
 
lazyfish said:
Dear Sur,

Hello from the PNW!

So which did you decide to grow out? I am voting for the Colombian Red.
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See the above post for my selections this year. The VN Black and Maui came in the mail from friends overseas this week. A last minute change in plans, but plenty of time to germinate, sex, and GH grow them this year. If the VN is really late, I will finish it indoors under lights.

lazyfish said:
Really think you can harvest in Oct??? I need to ask how???? Light Deprivation?

I love what you do. Wish there were more pics, though. I am ultimately interested in sativa landraces, bummer tolive in OR sometimes....

. Have you heard of cobbing/ fermenting weed?
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As for late harvest Colombian and North Mexican landraces, I have grown several years indoors through winter and sized up plants, set them out in March and they start blooming. Once they bloom, generally the bloom right through summer. The winter is really late here this year and I had lots of snow up until this week (finally melted) so it is a good thing I did not do that this year. My garage got way too cold and I had to bring my clone babies inside for the last month. Several Lebbies and the GDP clone that I got in trade, as well as some Durban clones I have from last year.

As for fermenting weed, I do not do that. I have seen it done several ways, typically wrapping it in corn husks and letting ferment (so called 'cobbing' or corn cobbing). I studies Colombian curing methods, which I believe originally came from Thailand. In Thailand, they would pile lots of fresh harvested tops in piles, cover them and let them basically compost to ferment out the chlorophyll which would turn brown in a few days. They also did this for a while in Colombia, but they soon changed that to simply harvesting and pressing/bricking up the weed when the colas were still green, and letting it ferment on the backs of trucks as it was hauled out to ports and shipped overseas. This methods was typical in later years with lowland Colombian red weed, which was basically 'brown' in color, but people selling it called it Colombian 'gold.' It was narcotic and put me to sleep. I have lots of seeds from those brown/red bricks.

Personally I cool cure my weed for long lasting storage. I dry it at 65-70 deg. F in cardboard trays, and then I cure it in paper grocery bags for a month to 6 weeks at 60-65 deg F. Then I bag it in plastic bags for long term storage. In jars it tends to rot, so I do not use them for weed storage any more. I can keep my cured weed for a couple of years. The only real issue with aging weed over long time periods is that the THC will naturally change into CBN at a rate of 10% the first year and then less the following years. CBN is good too though, as a sleep remedy. One hit and I am off to dreamland. I tend ot have a hard time getting to sleep sometimes, so I go for my old weed stash and take a hit.

Not all sativa landraces bloom late. Southern Mexican landrace strains tend to mature in early October. Also my grow last year of Lebanese landraces were really early maturing. They are called indicas, but IMO and observations, they are really sativas. Even the indica pheno is more like a sativa. They are also floral and lighter in strength, so they would make excellent breeding stock with other later blooming landraces to get the flavor and terpenes of other sativas and move up the harvest time by a month or two.
 
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