Oldsmokey Grows Blue Cheese & Blueberry With Promix

oldsmokey said:
Tomato plants don't seem to mind MC. If we could only get some hot weather now.

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My tomatoes love it as much as the girls do! I’m really glad I tried it because it’s so much cheaper and simpler to use. Love the journal btw and keep up the good work!
 
InTheShed said:
I'll let you know what I hear!
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He's really good at getting back to me. Among other questions, I asked:
What should I do if the lime’s ability has worn out (and the pH goes up) before the plants are harvested?

And his response was:
Use a fertilizer with a higher proportion of ammonium (NH4). This will cause pH to drop.

There is more to the conversation, and it's ongoing, but I wanted to get the answer back here as soon as I got it. I'm getting the feeling that MC, being almost 100% nitrate nitrogen, is having a large effect on the pH of the medium over time.
 
oldsmokey said:
That does make sense any fertilizer recommendations?
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He recommended Peter's Professional or Jack's Professional 20-10-20. They come in 25lb bags for around $80, so I got some Grow More Orchid Food Urea Free 20-10-20 which has the same percentages of nitrogen type. Amazon was going to take too long to ship so I found some at a local nursery for $9.

Those recommendations were to lower the pH, but I don't see why they can't be used generally given the 8% ammoniacal/12% nitrate nitrogen mix.

If you use 20-10-20 instead of MC, it leaves room for potassium silicate on the K side!

I'm waiting for follow-up answers from him if he isn't tired of me yet :cheesygrinsmiley:.
 
InTheShed said:
He's really good at getting back to me. Among other questions, I asked:
What should I do if the lime’s ability has worn out (and the pH goes up) before the plants are harvested?

And his response was:
Use a fertilizer with a higher proportion of ammonium (NH4). This will cause pH to drop.

There is more to the conversation, and it's ongoing, but I wanted to get the answer back here as soon as I got it. I'm getting the feeling that MC, being almost 100% nitrate nitrogen, is having a large effect on the pH of the medium over time.
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Thank you for confirming what I have experienced with ammonium vs nitrate N. I tried to discuss this with GH and they laughed at me and said it was all in my head. I used calcium nitrate for years as a N source and never had the pH in my hydroponic system drop, until I went with the GH flora series, which has ammonium salts in it. After 3 days the pH would drop 1.5 pH units. They suggested my system was unique because nobody else had ever had that problem before.
 
Interesting that it does that in hydro as well, as the discussion I was having was centered around solid substrates. I guess once the roots take up the nitrogen the same thing happens in water (much to the chagrin of the folks at GH!).
 
InTheShed said:
He recommended Peter's Professional or Jack's Professional 20-10-20. They come in 25lb bags for around $80, so I got some Grow More Orchid Food Urea Free 20-10-20 which has the same percentages of nitrogen type. Amazon was going to take too long to ship so I found some at a local nursery for $9.

Those recommendations were to lower the pH, but I don't see why they can't be used generally given the 8% ammoniacal/12% nitrate nitrogen mix.

If you use 20-10-20 instead of MC, it leaves room for potassium silicate on the K side!

I'm waiting for follow-up answers from him if he isn't tired of me yet :cheesygrinsmiley:.
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Tomorrow is feed day just trying to decide on how to proceed. Not really seeing what I want online so will have to go the garden center tomorrow. Nitrogen from urea is that something I want to avoid?
 
That seems to be some uncertainty in terms of whether it acts on pH as quickly as ammoniacal nitrogen, but I believe it will have the same effect of lowering it.

My guy said it was slower acting but MrS' source has it the same as ammoniacal. He said it's better for plants not in containers.
 
InTheShed said:
Interesting that it does that in hydro as well, as the discussion I was having was centered around solid substrates. I guess once the roots take up the nitrogen the same thing happens in water (much to the chagrin of the folks at GH!).
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I suspect it is because of the microbiome I encourage to grow through inoculation with two different brands of spores. I also feed my bacteria/fungus with a soluble carbon source daily.
 
InTheShed said:
There is more to the conversation, and it's ongoing, but I wanted to get the answer back here as soon as I got it. I'm getting the feeling that MC, being almost 100% nitrate nitrogen, is having a large effect on the pH of the medium over time.
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I've noticed similar with MC in hydro. It doesn’t mesh well with my water. Had GH on hand, and using that up now. Still get an upswing for a couple days, but that beats still adding pH down twice a day for the first 4 or so.

Picked up a new RO that is 4 stage instead of just 2, which I hope will onock the last bit of limestone out and be more stable.





InTheShed said:
He recommended Peter's Professional or Jack's Professional 20-10-20.
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I’ve been looking at jack’s pretty hard. For me, in bulk, it would run about twice what MC does per grow. Just haven’t got excited about committing to at least 8 grows with it yet. Only know one other person that ran Jack’s, but it was a good start and worked very well.
 
This pH swing issue may move me off the MC, so I might be looking at a 25lb bag of Jack's and using the 20lb of MC I have left to water the plastic turf. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
InTheShed said:
I'm getting the feeling that MC, being almost 100% nitrate nitrogen, is having a large effect on the pH of the medium over time.
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Somebody wrote a post describing that exact same thing. ;)

The Sauga Ends Here

Hey everybody! Here's the pics of the new photos dropped. When I was taking the group solo cup shot I knocked over the Meringue #1 and had to search for the seed. Finally found it and got her back in. She had the smallest tap so it may have been worse if it were one of the others...
www.420magazine.com
 
Yes you did, and it was an excellent post! What I was unaware of at the time I read that was how quickly the pH can rise with a full-sized root plant taking in almost entirely nitrate nitrogen, making MC less desirable than I had imagined.
 
Just curious guys, you are discussing PM as a medium for MC and having pH rise from what I can tell, someone (Shed maybe) mentioned it elsewhere and linked here.

I am using coco and MC, some of which I buffered with hydrated lime, some didn’t get buffered. As of yet I have had no issues just using my tap water and not checking pH of the mix (MC claims there is no need).

And not sure why the age of the PM would matter as lime is basic as well. Regardless, why not add some cider vinegar to your feed, it won’t change the nutrient ratios, but will bring the pH down.
 
The Celt said:
(MC claims there is no need)
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I don't think MC can make that claim. pH is controlled in the media and not in the nutes. Over time nutes will change the pH in the media but if you are running a non buffered soil or soilless product then you need to pH any nute, including MC.
 
InTheShed said:
What I was unaware of at the time I read that was how quickly the pH can rise with a full-sized root plant taking in almost entirely nitrate nitrogen
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Would that not have to do with the expired Promix though? Or are we talking about different plants?
 
The Celt said:
(MC claims there is no need)
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Greenleaf never made that claim, but there is someone on this site that spreads that around with no backup.
The Celt said:
why not add some cider vinegar to your feed, it won’t change the nutrient ratios, but will bring the pH down.
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The pH of the nutrients won't change the pH of the substrate.
MrSauga said:
I don't think MC can make that claim.
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I don't believe they do.
MrSauga said:
Would that not have to do with the expired Promix though? Or are we talking about different plants?
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I don't believe PremierTech was speaking only to the old ProMix. He was talking generally about nitrogen fertilizer and pH shift.
 
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