Oh No - It's A Green Hole! - Reverse Thrusters! - Dammit - Too Late!

Weaselcracker said:
Fortunately UncleCannabis came along to point out that my flowering area is only 3/4 of a sheet of plywood. That shrunk my grow down in a hurry.
It's tiny.
Thanks UncleC :)
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It's all a matter of perspective.
Comparing the floor space of my flowering area to a sheet of plywood is also how I've come to the conclusion that my flowering area is WAY too small.
It's too bad that sheets of plywood aren't a bit larger....
:winkyface:
 
UncleCannabis said:
It's all a matter of perspective.
Comparing the floor space of my flowering area to a sheet of plywood is also how I've come to the conclusion that my flowering area is WAY too small.
It's too bad that sheets of plywood aren't a bit larger....
:winkyface:
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You'll get there. And when you do, you'll still be looking for more space.
 
You guys are so great! Thanks for visiting here. My weekly orbit will soon have me hurtling back towards the green hole and I will update something or other in the next day or two.
I was attempting to read about deficiencies. My young Thai Stick plant, which up till a few days ago was fed nothing other than water, small amounts of cal mag, and whatever trace amounts of nutes are in Sunshine mix, started yellowing/burning at the older fan leaf tips. This led me to wonder if underfeeding and overfeeding can cause similar/identical problems. It would make sense- as a deficiency is a deficiency- no matter the cause. Right?
Scratching the surface of this can of worms makes me begin to realize how complicated the subject is. The nutrients are interrelated in so many ways, and with so many potential invisible complicating factors. Not only that- but as soon as we have damaged a plant by under/over/mis-feeding- not only do we have to try and put the puzzle pieces together, but we aren't even playing with the same puzzle anymore, as the plant itself has been affected and damaged- presumably in the root zone as well as the foliage.
It gives me the sense that an ounce of prevention is definitely worth a pound of cure. ( Maybe even a pound of cured.)
At least this is what I take away from my journeys out into the internet. This, and the observation that people out there on those other forums are mean to each other a lot and therefore fight a lot and it is a real waste of time and energy. Very glad it's not like that here! :thumb:
 
Weaselcracker said:
You guys are so great! Thanks for visiting here. My weekly orbit will soon have me hurtling back towards the green hole and I will update something or other in the next day or two.
I was attempting to read about deficiencies. My young Thai Stick plant, which up till a few days ago was fed nothing other than water, small amounts of cal mag, and whatever trace amounts of nutes are in Sunshine mix, started yellowing/burning at the older fan leaf tips. This led me to wonder if underfeeding and overfeeding can cause similar/identical problems. It would make sense- as a deficiency is a deficiency- no matter the cause. Right?
Scratching the surface of this can of worms makes me begin to realize how complicated the subject is. The nutrients are interrelated in so many ways, and with so many potential invisible complicating factors. Not only that- but as soon as we have damaged a plant by under/over/mis-feeding- not only do we have to try and put the puzzle pieces together, but we aren't even playing with the same puzzle anymore, as the plant itself has been affected and damaged- presumably in the root zone as well as the foliage.
It gives me the sense that an ounce of prevention is definitely worth a pound of cure. ( Maybe even a pound of cured.)
At least this is what I take away from my journeys out into the internet. This, and the observation that people out there on those other forums are mean to each other a lot and therefore fight a lot and it is a real waste of time and energy. Very glad it's not like that here! :thumb:
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How severe is the tip yellowing? Is it occurring everywhere at once, beginning at the bottom and moving upward, top to bottom?

Sativas will often do this as they are getting near the opening of the harvest window. The flag leaves that are located at the colas and larger buds will often times do weird things like twisting, some tips and leaves curling up while others curl downward, etc.

Another thing that can possibly cause something like aside from over/under fertilization or watering and nutrient deficiencies could be a build of of salts or plant refuse residue within the media.
If the grow media is not being watered heavy enough at times to leach away any build up salts and/or plant refuse residues it can cause problems such as this.

Best of luck bro. I hope you get it all sorted out....or at least stop worrying about it so much..... LOL!!
:blunt::peace:
 
The
Weaselcracker said:
You guys are so great!

At least this is what I take away from my journeys out into the internet. This, and the observation that people out there on those other forums are mean to each other a lot and therefore fight a lot and it is a real waste of time and energy. Very glad it's not like that here! :thumb:
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Quite right Weaselcracker! :thumb:

Was on another forum last year when I started growing - not only was it a mysogynistic badly behaved frat house (And I have worked in a male dominated business for 26 years, so I am no shrinking violet) the nightmare was compounded by one of the leaders of the forum encouraging polemic by taking sides in an argument that should not have gotten off the ground in the first place....

I'll take courtesy and politeness over perpetual pissing contest type forums any day; go 420 Magazine!!! :cheertwo:
 
UncleCannabis said:
How severe is the tip yellowing? Is it occurring everywhere at once, beginning at the bottom and moving upward, top to bottom?

Sativas will often do this as they are getting near the opening of the harvest window. The flag leaves that are located at the colas and larger buds will often times do weird things like twisting, some tips and leaves curling up while others curl downward, etc.

Another thing that can possibly cause something like aside from over/under fertilization or watering and nutrient deficiencies could be a build of of salts or plant refuse residue within the media.
If the grow media is not being watered heavy enough at times to leach away any build up salts and/or plant refuse residues it can cause problems such as this.

Best of luck bro. I hope you get it all sorted out....or at least stop worrying about it so much..... LOL!!
:blunt::peace:
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Ha ha. I'm not worrying Uncle. Thanks for that info though :thumb: This plant is in veg and I was purposely leaving it unfed till it started crying- just to see what it would say. There's just the slightest tip burn on the older leaves it's not a problem in any way- it just got me curious and thinking out loud. Maybe hoping I'll think up something interesting, or get some smart responses to my ramblings.
I'm not worrying, but in a general sense, I'm always happier when I don't have a room full of unhappy girls shrieking different things at me in languages I don't even understand, Lol. Been there before plenty and would rather not go back there. :). I'm much happier when they are happy and serene from start to finish.

Bapple - I must be a really slow learner, but it was only since I started wandering 420 that I really grasped the life lesson of positive/negative energy. Besides making everything work better- avoiding negativity is a fun way to take the wind out of some people's sails. Or if nothing else, at least it takes their wind out of my sails, lol.
 
Those foreign languages those MJ girls speak do make me scratch my head sometimes as well.

I've never been any good at playing charades either.
Plant showing me burnt leaf tips....Me..."ummmmm.....too much fuel"....wrong buzzer....."ummmm....need more water".......wrong buzzer....."ummmmm......temps too hot"......wrong buzzer again......."could I get you an ice cold beer or something my darling?".......wrong buzzer again......"ummmmmm......damn it!!.....WTF is wrong with you?......you better get with the program or you're fucking out of here girlie!!!".........game of charades over.
:blunt::peace:
 
Ok, first the-

CLONES

Here's how the rooting situation looked today when I got back, at 14 days. ( I didn't bother to include the picture of the tray full of cuttings because it looks more or less exactly the same as the other pictures I already showed you of it so you aren't missing anything much)

'Exposed' cuttings- here seven of them have roots out the bottom.

image32521.jpg


'Regular' cuttings- four have roots showing. Sorry- crappy pic. You'll have to trust me. I counted.

image32522.jpg



I went through tonight and planted the ones I want, and pulled the rest. It turned out that all except one (on the 'regular' side) had quite a lot of roots in the rockwool, they looked like they would have all been showing by tomorrow.
So- I don't see any difference between the cuttings which were laying around for a half hour or so, and the ones dunked immediately in water. Good enough for my purposes- :thumb: I'm going to assume that anti-air bubble practices aren't needed.
I never misted or watered after the first time.
 
Mr Am4zin said:
Congrats on the clones, some nice roots coming through.
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Thanks Mr Am4zin. I'm glad I did that experiment. I spent the last ten years or so doing my cuttings in somewhat of a hurry to get them into water. Some people say you should even trim the stems underwater, after the first rough cut to get them off the plant. Glad I can skip that routine now with a clear conscience.
 
UPDATE~

VEG

The veg room was back to it's usual jungle state.

image32520.jpg



With UncleCannabis' advice in mind, I went on a murderous rampage through the clones and the veg plants.
I decided I've had almost enough of this White Widow business, and I would get rid of all White Widows from veg.
So I pulled the freshly rooted WW clones, as well as some PC phenos, and a lot of 'extra' rooted clones.

I kept only the BB, best PC, and the best MT pheno. Also the GSC cross though I was tempted to axe her too. Also I have the Thai Stick, which is shooting upwards at a frightful speed now that it got something to eat.
I also axed a couple large vegging plants- Pineapple Chunks in 7 gallon pots. This brings me down to only five strains in the veg room. Well...not strictly true. I have one cutting from the Mama Thai which grew nanners, and was chopped and left in the brush pile overnight before I repented and took the cutting. Hasn't rooted yet. I'll probably chop her after she does though. I don't trust her after that nanner outbreak.

FLOWER

Then I went in and glowered at my flowering White Widows. I don't like the look of the bud on the old WW. Yes it's rock hard, but when I break one open it's like a crummy old biscuit or something - kind of greenish white and crumbly without much stickiness at all. Not too inspiring. Of course, grower mismanagement is presumably to blame there - but I don't expect much from her at this point.
I almost chopped the younger one but then decided that was stupid as it's been flowering for a month already, and is healthy enough so far. Maybe we can work things out better this time. If she turns out well, I can reveg her. She's the only surviving member of her family now.

It looks like the flushing from last week worked well. The mangy old WW yellowed up tons. Also the PCs, which had only lots of water last time, yellowed up a bunch. The corner one, the pheno I like best, is looking very nice and sticky. I couldn't get a photo to do it justice- not for lack of trying. The buds are a bit long and scrawny, but extremely sticky and white- finally ripening up the way I want them to. I wish I could have got a photo showing her true colors.

image32529.jpg


Here's a pic of the left side. The blueberry, on left, has been quite well behaved all along and seems like a lovely plant. She smells wonderfully like blueberry. Old WW showing, sort of, in front, new one in back/right. Newest PC in back left corner. She seems to be holding up well to the Botanicare feeding schedule so far.

image32530.jpg



I harvested the Mama Thai. Her fox tails were getting out of control and I actually should have harvested her a couple weeks ago as she looked past her prime. Still- I find her a beautiful plant, in spite of being strapped into the scrog screen, and in spite of some grower inflicted damage. I got a fair pile of sticky fluffy sativa buds out of her and a few viable seeds.

image32526.jpg


image32523.jpg


image32527.jpg


I didn't find any nanners in her, except for one little one. I thought it was a nanner anyway, except,when magnified, it looked like this.

image32531.jpg



I didn't know nanners ever grew trichomes. Do they???? Either I'm mistaken about what it is, and or it's a tiny discolored sugar leaf thingy, or maybe it's a freak event. It occurs to me I don't know what nanners actually are supposed to look like close up, because I've actually never looked at one through a microscope before. Thankfully I don't have any more nanners around to compare it to.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
Is that just peat moss you have those clone cubes resting in?
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Hi CC. It's coco. I've tried doing a similar thing with Sunshine mix but it didn't work out. Sunshine mix does come with some base nutrients in it though, maybe that interfered with rooting. Maybe straight peat moss would work. I think coco has better water retention levels. Cloning was a big dilemma for me before I 'invented' this way of doing it- because I couldn't be around to baby the cuttings and water the cubes. I built an aeroponic cloner but didn't have any luck with that either for some reason. It's so awesome to be able to just leave them alone. Maybe this is what Sue is talking about with the ease of no-till soil and water and swick. Not that I see her leaving her plants alone much ha ha ha...

Test of the Air Bubble Theory - Cloning experiment
 
Weaselcracker said:
Hi CC. It's coco. I've tried doing a similar thing with Sunshine mix but it didn't work out. Sunshine mix does come with some base nutrients in it though, maybe that interfered with rooting. Maybe straight peat moss would work. I think coco has better water retention levels. Cloning was a big dilemma for me before I 'invented' this way of doing it- because I couldn't be around to baby the cuttings and water the cubes. I built an aeroponic cloner but didn't have any luck with that either for some reason. It's so awesome to be able to just leave them alone. Maybe this is what Sue is talking about with the ease of no-till soil and water and swick. Not that I see her leaving her plants alone much ha ha ha...

Test of the Air Bubble Theory - Cloning experiment
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I think you have stumbled across a pretty nifty alternative to a bubble cloner.

Did you have a chiller in your cloner system? The biggest reason that homemade cloners don't work is because the water warms up and becomes a haven for bacteria and fungi which will kill clones. The ones you can buy in the store come with everything you need to maintain water temps.

Similarly, I know alot of people swear by DWC, but go into any knowledgeable hydro shop and they will laugh in your face when you mention it. Its pretty much just a bubbly cesspool. Tertiary plants are not meant to be constantly submerged in water. Hence, Ebb and flow, and drip hydro systems. Over watering actually encourages more vegetative growth. Which is fine in veg or if you are growing other leafy crops like lettuce or kitchen herbs...but any other tertiary blooming plant needs wet and dry cycles. All that flowering is is a plant's last ditch effort at reproducing because it will be dying soon. That effort is partially triggered by the amount of water in the soil. Too much water and the plant will never bloom to its full potential because it doesn't know its resources are limited and is continuing to put energy into green growth rather than fruit.

So ya I got derailed there. But thats probably why you are having better success with the coco instead of a home made cloner.
 
Thanks CC. No I managed to get my cloner bucket temps down to about 70ish by keeping the bucket in a cool corner. I monitored temps constantly and rebuilt a couple times to ensure no light leaks in the bucket. I tried various bennies in the mix (tiny bit of success), H2O2 (nope), etc. I started a thread on the situation. It kind of goes nowhere and probably isn't worth reading. Once I hit on the coco cloning method I lost interest in fussing over the cloner. Never did figure out the problem for sure, but overall- I think the addition of beneficial bacteria into my medium is what spelled the end of my troubles. I think the vegging plants and mothers probably had root rot in their systems and this was infecting the cuttings. I suspect that now that I use bennies, I could probably go back to the aero cloner and have good results. I've been meaning to do that so I can post a happy ending to the thread.

Aero cloner blues
 
Weaselcracker said:
Thanks CC. No I managed to get my cloner bucket temps down to about 70ish by keeping the bucket in a cool corner. I monitored temps constantly and rebuilt a couple times to ensure no light leaks in the bucket. I tried various bennies in the mix (tiny bit of success), H2O2 (nope), etc. I started a thread on the situation. It kind of goes nowhere and probably isn't worth reading. Once I hit on the coco cloning method I lost interest in fussing over the cloner. Never did figure out the problem for sure, but overall- I think the addition of beneficial bacteria into my medium is what spelled the end of my troubles. I think the vegging plants and mothers probably had root rot in their systems and this was infecting the cuttings. I suspect that now that I use bennies, I could probably go back to the aero cloner and have good results. I've been meaning to do that so I can post a happy ending to the thread.

Aero cloner blues
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Maybe do a side by side with a manufactured one too? Do you mean like adding some tea to the cloner? Hmm Got me thinking you have....
 
Yes I tried teas in the bucket, as well as some powdered concoctions at times. Cuttings would sit there for a month- looking fine above ground, only refusing to root and eventually starting to rot.
I had a couple neglected mother plants that I was taking the cuttings from.
I think they probably suffered root rot from being constantly overwatered and neglected when I was away on trips.
Now that I think more about it, I remember Auggie, resident cloning expert, saying that cloning from old mothers is difficult. Maybe this was the main problem.
I figured that my veg room was awash in nasty bacteria and fungi spores and this was a big part of the problem. Everything is healthier after starting the use of powdered beneficials and teas.
It's hard to get excited about putting the bucket together again when the current method is so easy- but I'll definitely try it again soon. If nothing else, I don't like leaving things unfinished. Thanks for the nudge in that direction, I'd almost managed to forget that old cloner thread. :thumb:
 
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