Nivana's Chrystal 11 Weeks Into Veg - Advice Welcome!

[navigator]

hi V! your pictures are so pretty! and it looks like you are close to harvest? so is the plant in the picture just one plant? and parts of it turned male? and you saw the male flowers and just cut out the branches with the male parts? right? that is so cool...what other plant in the world would tolerate that shit and still cure cancer (among other things)? amazing! and scrog looks so productive...

what kind of lights do you have and did you get them too close? i'm using led's for the second time...last time i got them too close (or something) and the tips of the buds turned white and i pinched them off - (if i can't see them...they don't exist...right?)

today, i put 5 gallons of ph'd water through #2 & #3 today and took a bunch of pictures. i will do #4 & #5 on friday, as i just filled up the buckets this evening for their dechlorination...lol...sounds almost like coronation...only de....

oh well...it's late and i have to go to bed. today is my husband's birthday - 65 - so i had to make one of his favorite dinners - meatloaf/mashed potatoes/gravy/veggies...so we had dinner and cleaned up and watched a movie and now i'm tired...had a busy day with the plants, too...

i'll post the pictures and the details tomorrow morning...night all and thanks for being there!

 

[Papageno]

LOL yeah right !!!! I get a gold star on the wall.

So lets go down the list of questions.

Yup just one plant there. I started 4...2 were male. One is a sick hag in the corner I should have killed but I have the space so like you ....lets keep trying. I think there was some issue in the soil that fucked her up from the get go because nothing I try has fixed it...and I know a few things...even a few I haven't told you yet

You can see in the second pic it is a single 15 gallon pot.


So for the hermi..there are many things that can cause your pant to hermi. Mine was the easiest to deal with. I have a brand new light I have never worked with it is a "special" type (soon to be the standard type) that is super powerful and hot and I never have used them before. My flowers grew real fast right up into a hot zone I didn't realize was there. Due to the heat they started growing male parts in the flowers at the top. They are called naners which is short for bananas because that is what they look like (google it). So I saw them and I knew that if you pluck them then you are fine. As we talked about I looked at the symptom and diagnosed the cause and upped my light a bunch to get less heat there. Then I kept vigilant and kept plucking naners and when I saw a bad flower I topped the tip off as far as I saw male parts. This happened for about 2 weeks and then stopped. I am staying vigilant and checking twice a day but see nothing now. Also the blooms slowed a bunch during this stress. Now they are taking off again. Totally expected right?!?!?


As for lights I am using a 1000W DE HPS in a focused hood.

Lets talk later about lights I got a video I will post later that you must see.

Next week I get some veg LED's in the mail I will add for some spectrum to see if that bumps ups the trics and resin


Love that you are taking care of your old man!!!!

 

[navigator]

I have a brand new light I have never worked with it is a "special" type (soon to be the standard type) that is super powerful and hot and I never have used them before.

i looked up those lights...they do look promising...seems like philips makes good grow lights...so now growing cannabis is going the way of the electronics world...person can't hardly keep up with all the new developments and inventions! it will be interesting to see how the 1000 w hps de work for you.

Love that you are taking care of your old man!!!!

ah...he is my heart!

yesterday, i put 5 gallons of water ph'd to 6.23 through #2 and #3. pictures to follow. the runoff on #2 was 6.95 and the runoff on #3 was 6.9. i didn't finish the process until late afternoon, so can't do #4 and #5 until tomorrow morning when the new water has dechlorinated...

first up is #2...she and #5 are the sparsest...i think...

 

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and here is #3...bless her heart...she is surviving in spite of me! and i think she looks better in person than she does in these pictures...

i tried to get a couple of good closeups of her leaves...wondering if it is phosphorus deficiency causing the damage...didn't do a real good job...kinda blurry...i went back to that site with the blue background and it looks also like it could be potassium, too...

and here they both are...tucked back into the tent...

 

[navigator]

i went back upstairs and tried to get better pictures of the leaves...not sure that i did that...but here are 2 more shots of the leaves...

 

[Papageno]

Well I think you are diagnosing these correctly. But again you probably are still over 7 in your soil if you are watering 6.2 and getting 6.9. So it may not be deficiencies in the soil. So I would keep going down with it. Maybe you could go back to your regular nute program? Not sure if you are still on VF11. I have used it through Veg in Hydro without issue. Just needed to add cal mag and some silica and I get great results with it. I suspect it is still a bit of lockout.

The rule of thumb is when it is more than one nute and you are using a complete nute program (Like VF11) then it is pH.



AND

I just got some LED lights in the mail today. Gen 1 Mars Hydro lights are going for dirt right now on ebay. So I grabbed a couple and added one next to my DE for some extra spectrum. Maybe that will help the final resin. Started it up about an hour ago. Gotta go check on it in a bit.

Philips is manufacturing the best DE on the market. The reason is they are making it for Gavita. Gavita is a dutch company that were the first to bring DE's into the grow room. They are on like the 5th gen bulb I think. Everyone else is playing catch up. Philips picked up the manf. for them so now you have world class manf. for the people who have been experimenting and doing it the longest. The bulbs are way brighter and last way longer (more than twice as long) and when they do start degrading it is much slower. So even though they are more expensive up front they are cheaper in the long run.

 

[navigator]

hi V...been a busy day around here...but that's a good thing...

the de's don't get hot, right? but they must raise the temperature, somewhat? just in round figures...what would it cost for a grower to set up with one light and ballast...? you could probably use any ol' hood? i like that the ballast is right there with the light and you don't need so many cords. do these bulbs cover about the same area as a standard hps bulb?

The rule of thumb is when it is more than one nute and you are using a complete nute program (Like VF11) then it is pH.

that makes total sense...but i had never thought of it like that...a really good rule of thumb to keep in mind! i've about decided that all my trouble (or most of it, anyway) over the past 2 years was ph related and it never mattered what nutes i used because the ph was off...but working with you, i can now tell that my thinking is changing as my understanding of the plant and what it needs has grown - but - musn't get too cocky!

today, i flushed #4 and #5. i like #4's structure and i think she will make a nice plant. i'm not so sure about #5, but i'm keeping her, anyway. she just looks really bare down low where we need growth. we'll just see how she develops.

#4 was flushed with water ph'd to 6.25 and its runoff was at 6.75.
#5 was watered with ph 6.28 and its runoff was at 6.9.

i have the vf-11. previously, when we flushed i gave them vf-11 with the final watering...should i do that, now? and then, a little later, give them tea? kind of follow the same procedure, right? and we'll see how they respond? i agree it's lockout...they're all high in the ph in the runoff, even after all we've done...i must've really had it jacked up there!! lol

following is what we've done to this point...just because i like to see it all in one place...you can contrast what i did with #4 and #5 on 01/18 vs what i did today...kind of interesting.

monday - 12/06 i did the flush and gave them one more gallon of water ph adjusted to 6.3 and mixed with 8-10 ml of hygrozime, one ounce of vf-11, and about 1 tablespoon of biovam...
thursday - 12/17 i whacked them down.
monday - 12/21 i gave them the tea.
saturday - 12/26 i gave them water ph'd to 6.7 or so before leaving town.
wednesday - 12/30 i gave them cal mag, silica, and sugar in water ph'd to 6.8.
saturday - 01/02 i whacked them some more...
sunday - 01/10 i gave them tea..
wednesday - 01/13 i trimmed some more, but very little
saturday - 01/16 i tried to kill #3 and gave them all water ph'd
monday - 01/18 i put a few gallons of water ph'd to 6.2 through #4 & #5 the runoff for #4 was at 6.9 and the runoff to #5 was at 7.3.
wednesday - 01/27 i put five gallons of water ph'd to 6.23 through #2 and #3. the runoff on #2 was 6.95 and the runoff on #3 was 6.9.
friday - 01/29 i put five gallons of water ph'd to 6.25 (or so) through #4 and #5 and the runoff for #4 was at 6.75 and the runoff for #5 was 6.9

and here are the pictures...

first #4...

i tried to get a good shot of this leaf because it was so obviously purple...not sure if i was successful...

and #5...

and both of them back in the tent...

 

[Papageno]

Nope...the opposite...

DE's get really hot. In fact the way HPS works is a chemical reaction that works better the hotter it is. When you run air cooled hoods you cool the bulb and get less output. Also those typically are running behind glass that also reduces output even when clean. They don't stay really clean very long. DE stands for Double Ended and that is because the bulb connects on both ends not on one side. Yours screws in with both connections on one end. A DE bulb passes electricity through the bulb with one connection on each side so no the hood is different. The bulbs are more expensive but for a number of reasons last much longer (more than twice as long) and in fact degrade much slower so you end up spending less on the bulbs in the long run. I will post another video below that anyone should watch before buying a lighting setup.

DE bulbs are much brighter for the same wattage. The area they cover is defined by the hood ( watch the video below) but in the same area for the same power you get a lot more light.

I went all top of the line. I got the best ballast on the market that has about 10% more output than others. it is adjustable so I can run my bulb at 650, 750, 1000, 1100. You can buy cheaper. My understanding is HydroFarm has a know off of that Gavita setup that actually performs better. I am an Electrical Engineer. I will tell you now do not buy a ballast that has a fan. if they don't have the heat sink designed correctly they are chumps. Thne fan will eventually break and then there goes your grow.


So since I run a DE bulb which is like 10% or better more PAR and I run it open and not cooled (15% more and 10% more), and I run the best ballast...I get nearly 40% better lighting or maybe more...Not a trivial amount.


Yeah pH is your issue...always has been. They didn't stretch because of lack of light. they grew stunted and slow and deficient and took forever and kept dropping leaves which do all the photosynthesis.


You are very close to getting them back in line. I always told you once these are back in line they will take off. Once you get these healthy again and they are ready to take off then you can really think about if you do one last pruning or just go for it. Either way once these are healthy again you will know as the root system should be much larger than needed for the size. So these will take off supper fast once all is good.




These guys make a ton of great videos.

I have the Solistek

 

[Papageno]

So remember when you said that my flowers were looking close to done? And remember when I said I stunted it a bit but now it is coming back? And maybe you remember when I said the Crab meal is a supper bloom enhancer causing wild flower growth?

So I gave my girls the tea again yesterday and they are just exploding and absolutely covered in thick white pistils.

I got a new LED in there for some spectrum and I took a few pictures from behind the glasses to help with the color so maybe you can see them.

Gonna get some Bats outta this one.

 

[navigator]

hi V! wow...those buds look amazing!! that tea is amazing!! you are close to harvest, right? it will be interesting to see how much you harvest from that one plant...

i started giving the tea to my clones...but the 4 that got it first are still so far ahead of the other 6 that i have to say that the tea really made a difference in their development...i planted the 4 clones on 7 december and i gave them the tea on 20 december...so when they were about two weeks old...the 6 clones got planted on 1 december, but they didn't get the tea until 11 january...so they were nearly 6 weeks old...it's made a difference that is very discernible in the plants!

i've been really distracted the last couple of days, but that's over now...i've been looking in on our 4 patients every day and so today i'm very excited to say that they are starting to grow!!

i'll be spending time with them today and will get some pictures to show you! i think you are going to be pleased....

i do want to cut them back some more...get more growth lower and take off some of the upper leaves...but not yet...i want to give them a couple more weeks...

i was thinking that i like this strain quite a bit...the clones that i took from the flowering clones are even rooting...i think i'm going to have 8 or 9 plants there (assuming they survive the transplant! lol...) that will just move in and take over the grow room when the current clones are finished the end of february.

then, i would like to take one of the 4 in the tent and use as a mother for a grow or two just to see what it's like to do that for awhile...

anyway...i'm excited!! and it's all due to your help...what a difference between now and early december when we started this journey/journal...

 

[navigator]

ok, will start with #5...

lot of clusters of new growth...you see the kind of purple shading on the upper leaves in the following picture? what do you think that is?

and here is a picture of a cluster of new leaves...

and this is a picture of a little bud that just grew out the side of the stem...

of the 10 clones i have, there is one that is from #5 that is just amazing...(it's one of the 4 that got the tea)...so here is a picture of the cola and the following is just a shot of the clone...so healthy!

i've never had this kind of success in the two years i've been doing this...never!

 

[navigator]

#4 is next...

i was trying to show the new growth, but it didn't come out very well...

these probably show it better....

 

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here is #2...she has clusters of new growth on the tips of her branches...

 

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and #3...

you see the damage on the fan leaf on the right? the tips are dying back and there is a fan leaf on the left that has almost dried up and died...i see this particular issue a lot on the leaves and just wondered what you think it is?

and here are all 4 of them back in the tent.

 

[Papageno]

The brown stuff on the first one is Magnesium def. That is usually caused by pH problems. you can add a bunch it wont hurt. Is that new growth? if so then you probably ought to add some Cal mag. it has been almost a month I think so it is time for sure to add some more. About every 2 weeks is good for Cal Mag.


The black tips is old nute burn that you stooped dead in its tracks and now the plant is rebounding and that just doesn't go away.



So the issue is really we thought you had licked the pH issue and for weeks you still had that problem and to boot you had poor humidity so we had stunted slwo growth. But all the while you were adding some nutes in there either through Tea or regular feeding. so all of that built up in the soil and was never used. now that the soil is coming back in line you have a bit much in there likely. But no worries. It aint no thang but a chicken wing...those are not bad and we should just watch for the next week. Many issues, like Nitrogen, take 6 days to really show a response, sometimes more if the temps and humidity are off and the plant is growing slow.

So we need to just give them a happy environment and let them tell us how they are doing. I used t tell people all the time (probably told you a month ago or so...). The plant is talking to you. You just need to learn to speak cannabis.

By the way no how I said I had this dud I could never get to work and I thought it was the soil. The clones started out okay and are now failing the same way. I think it was a true dud of a seed. Funny as I just explained how good plants (like people) can make duds.

Read this thread on the proper way to select a Mother plant for cloning. it takes a while to get to the good stuff but at one point I break down and splain the "right way" to do it. You may find it interesting.

Fem seeds for mother plant - New grower - Please help




From this side view you can see the regrowth better. It has taken off like new. I don't know how long now but I think it wont start maturing for at least 2 weeks so I may be 3 or more out. That Chitosan makes it flower in overdrive like crazy.

 

[navigator]

V, those flowers are beautiful...really beautiful~

i'm closer to having plants like that than i have ever been...but i'm not there yet...

i read the thread about the fem vs reg seeds...i like fem seeds for the obvious reasons...and i'm nowhere near ready to try to breed anything...don't actually have the room at the moment...but it makes sense that a reg seed would have more vitality, etc. what i don't like about reg seeds is spending the effort and the soil to raise them up, only to chop them down! lol...

but i suppose trying to make a mother out of one of these 4 poor things wouldn't be such a good idea...

so, i was wondering a couple of things...:

1. after you strain your tea, have you ever just put the leavings over the soil in the pot? like compost? just curious...
2. also wondering...do you ever mix the calmag with the tea?

 

[Papageno]

So one thing at a time.


The point of that thread got hijacked onto breeding and multiple people now lost the point I was making about cloning. So I want you to understand why using a Fem for cloning is illogical and baseless. (not to mention the genetics are inferior)

Good breeds can make Dud seeds. I have one now. Remember I said I have another plant off to the side I could never get healthy no matter what I tried? I got it close to healthy right before bloom and took some clones. I always figured I had something wrong in the soil even though it came from the same batch as other plants. Well the clones are looking the same way and will be tossed.

Anyone who has grown for any significant time will tell you a similar story of growing a bunk seed. It just happens. When considering a real cloning program you must first know that the most important thing is selecting a decent mother. I have read about and personally cloned bad plants not knowing it was going to be bad (just as described above) and grown them. the worst is if it has great performance as a plant and is not potent. So to truly do this correctly you

1) Grow out a handful of seeds...preferably same genetics...so all White Widow seeds. (5-10)
2) Take clones (2-4) from all of them right before starting bloom
3) Once you have sexed them you toss the male clones. So now you have 2-7 plants (maybe 14-20 clones)
4) Bloom the parents.
4.1) If you have a separate Veg room place all of the clones randomly mixed up. This way you can see if there was some affect from your lighting or ventilation that may have impacted the results from the first time.
5) Harvest and cure the parents ...throughout veg and bloom take notes on what you like and don't like
6) Take clones again and one of those will become the mother.
7) Move your clones into the Bloom room and again have them randomly mixed up and also continue to take notes.
8) Then once cured sample the product and decide if there is any real difference. No 2 things are identical and one should stand out after all of this. Maybe it is just the one that grew fastest and the potency is all the same.
9) Double check all this with the second round that was all mixed up to make sure you didn't make a mistake.

Then you know which clone to make a mother...or to just keep cloning from.

So following that process you will gain nothing by using fem seeds. The only thing using Femd seeds does for you is allows you to skip proper selection and just start cloning a plant without know if it is the right one to use. You will get lucky a few times but eventually you will use a plant as a mother that you will eventually not like and wish you hadn't.


Top of the line seeds can be had from the seed bank you use for $2.50 a seed. For about $35 you can get a 10 pack of regulars plus a 10 pack of freebies shipped to you and do the 10 seed selection. you will have a much better result for the $30 investment then trying to gamble that this one seed is the best one you have and save $20.

It is illogical and not cost effective to use femd seeds to start a long term cloning program or mother search. Especially when you add on that it is common for reduced weight and vigor. But even if fems were genetically the same quality it doesn't help in the process. Just do 20 seeds then for the same price (fems are usually double in price right). Do the process 5 times and have a mother competition...but there is not point in using fems when the sexing of the plant is step 3 of 9.

My dog is barking at me I need to walk him and then I will get back about the other stuff.

 

[Papageno]

If the tea has worked correctly the leftovers are basically worthless. That is the whole point of the tea is to get out all the good stuff. It is called Tea because originally before people started using forced air or vortex typ machines people would put manure in a burlap sack and steep it in a bucket like a tea bag for 4-5 days. That works too just not as good. by the end they is nothing good let in the bag. So I have not used the leftovers I just throw it in my garden or lawn. Now that said I usually brew for only about 24 to 36 hours and many people brew a lot longer so maybe there is some left but I don't worry about it. I personally would think it adds too much of a variable to the mix.

Cal / Mag is its own thing. I add it about every 2 weeks. Comes in a bottle already made and needs no help. It wont help the tea brew any better. It is straight up minerals and needs no help.

 

[navigator]

i have grown white widow and snow white...they were ok but i wasn't...meaning they grew in spite of me! lol....

i'd be pleased to try either one of them again, and see if i couldn't do the plant justice...

and i understand the problem with using a fem seed for a mother/clone situation...

i was thinking of doing the calmag with the tea just for convenience...and not adding it to the tea but just washing it in when i wash in the tea...didn't know if there might be a conflict for the plant in doing that.

i guess, for now, i will just focus on the 4 patients...the 10 clones and the clones that i have from the clones...i'm going to do them just because i want to see what they look like...

ya know, i never figured that a dud seed would not grow good pot...i figured that if the plant grew and had a bud on it...the bud would be good....lmao...it's just funny the way the mind works when the body is walking into walls (hypothetically of course...).

this is really good, V, learning all this stuff...i just have so far to go...at least i'm on my way...

 

[Papageno]

Yeah I guess because I used to breed and I have a farmers perspective on this makes me see things less delusional (well that and my dad grew up on my grandfathers massive farm where I spent a lot of time as a kid so I have a bit of farmer in me). I don't know why but when it comes to cannabis people throw basic common knowledge common sense and thought processing out the window and treat it so differently. I am sure you have had a vegetable garden before and planted seeds like for a row of carrots. Not all of the seeds sprout. Some of the carrots are huge. And cannabis is no different. It is a plant. People think well this seed was expensive and cannabis is a magic plant so this is one of Jacks magic beans and will be awesome.

I have seen many duds come out of the ground and not be able to keep up with the rest of the group. Selective breeding is a cornerstone to decent farming and has been done since people first started planting crops. Seriously before Egypt..they have show people were crop farming... and it goes without saying that the bigger faster growing plants would be what they would replant.

Yet so many cannabis growers can't even figure out what people figured out many thousands of years ago.

So growing a single seed and assuming it is the bomb is just whack...but you get so many people who are many generations removed from farming who live in the concrete jungle and never grew a vegetable garden. They try and jump in and do indoor gardening without a lick of knowledge and since cannabis is so easy to grow they get a few successful grows in and think they got it all figured out. In the last week I have seen 3 threads on here where people are telling others to just use femed seed and clone from it, it will be fine. Well sure that will be fine. But it makes no sense and is illogical. so yeeeeeeah... whateves.

And no matter how many ways I put it they still say I am wrong. LOL

Gotta love pot heads