Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

The side-branching continues to develop nicely!
Everything looking good!

@cbdhemp808 , Harlequin Bx4 is a 1:1 with 75% sativa, 25% indica.
For an all-summer greenhouse grow, would you think a 15G pot would be appropriate for that?
Or is that the 40G action?
Thanks

 

[cbdhemp808]

Harlequin Bx4 is a 1:1 with 75% sativa, 25% indica.
For an all-summer greenhouse grow, would you think a 15G pot would be appropriate for that?
Or is that the 40G action?

I think it depends if you are using lights to control flowering, and how long you plan to keep them in veg. Also depends on if you plan to top them, how much, and when. But in general, 15G seems too small for a sativa-dominant plant over the summer.

If you are going to grow them without photoperiod lighting, and your night hours are sufficient to induce flowering at the time they are mature enough to flower, then 15G could be OK.

 

[CBDMed]

I think it depends if you are using lights to control flowering, and how long you plan to keep them in veg. Also depends on if you plan to top them, how much, and when. But in general, 15G seems too small for a sativa-dominant plant over the summer.

If you are going to grow them without photoperiod lighting, and your night hours are sufficient to induce flowering at the time they are mature enough to flower, then 15G could be OK.

Hmm...
Good questions all.
I think the basic plan is to divide the cannabis into summer regular grows, and winter regular grows (in batches).

With the photoperiods I would plan a summer greenhouse grow, starting at the spring equinox, and continuing to around the fall equinox.
I will probably top them at least once, and also add some form of Gas Lantern Routine (or other night interruption).
I am glad that the 15G and 40G sizes sound good.

Then for winter grows, I will try to run some form of autos, for variety, and fun.
I am learning more about autos all the time.
If I can catch them before bloom I will try to top them and use LST hoops--and if not there will be LST hoops as a minimum.
I might add some form of night interruption lighting.
I like your solar setup.

I am trying to transition to regular seeds, so it looks like I will need separate greenhouses for males, and I will also be growing in batches.
Sometimes regular seeds come in 5s, 10s, 12s, or 15s, so I will have to plant them and any other auto fems I want, and then weed out all but the best males, and take the best males to a special small side greenhouse for pollen collection.
Then I will hand-pollinate a branch of the best females with a paint brush (and let that branch get old before harvesting).

I have some small paint brushes.
I ordered some small vials for the freezer.
I just remembered I have a friend who can sew.
For the 40G, is it 40cm / 15.75" across, and 70cm / 27.5" tall?
7 tall by 4 wide?

Are there any holes in my plan?

Thanks!

 

[cbdhemp808]

With the photoperiods I would plan a summer greenhouse grow, starting at the spring equinox, and continuing to around the fall equinox.
I will probably top them at least once, and also add some form of Gas Lantern Routine (or other night interruption).
I am glad that the 15G and 40G sizes sound good.

Then I would go big on the pots, but 40gal is just what I happen to have of our custom-made pots. You can choose any size.

Then for winter grows, I will try to run some form of autos, for variety, and fun.
I am learning more about autos all the time.
If I can catch them before bloom I will try to top them and use LST hoops--and if not there will be LST hoops as a minimum.
I might add some form of night interruption lighting.
I like your solar setup.

Sounds good, but you don't need lighting for autos

I am trying to transition to regular seeds, so it looks like I will need separate greenhouses for males, and I will also be growing in batches.
Sometimes regular seeds come in 5s, 10s, 12s, or 15s, so I will have to plant them and any other auto fems I want, and then weed out all but the best males, and take the best males to a special small side greenhouse for pollen collection.
Then I will hand-pollinate a branch of the best females with a paint brush (and let that branch get old before harvesting).

I was recommending just saving one male (from each strain) and keep them in an indoor tent using LED grow lights. Just move them into the tent when the flowers are getting close to being ready.

I have some small paint brushes.
I ordered some small vials for the freezer.
I just remembered I have a friend who can sew.
For the 40G, is it 40cm / 15.75" across, and 70cm / 27.5" tall?
7 tall by 4 wide?

No, they are more flat than that. I would need to measure. My pattern for building them is tricky – something I got from a Youtube video, and then scaled it up.

 

[CBDMed]

Then I would go big on the pots, but 40gal is just what I happen to have of our custom-made pots. You can choose any size.

Ahh, right!! So check the breeder website and see how big it gets?
And pure Sativa probably needs a bigger pot than a sativa dominant, which needs a bigger pot than a balanced, which needs a bigger pot than an indica dominant, right?
(And Northern Lights can live in a 5 or a 7!)

Sounds good, but you don't need lighting for autos

Hahaha, yeah, sorry! It is a little busy here now.

I was recommending just saving one male (from each strain) and keep them in an indoor tent using LED grow lights. Just move them into the tent when the flowers are getting close to being ready.

Ahh, ok. Move the pollen jail indoors?
Good idea.
Thank you.

No, they are more flat than that. I would need to measure. My pattern for building them is tricky – something I got from a Youtube video, and then scaled it up.

Ok, it would be great to know the correct measurements!
Thanks.

 

[CBDMed]

@Emilya , @Azimuth, if you were making a 40G cloth pot for sativa dominant plants, would you maintain the same tall pot size?
Would you go 70cm / 26" tall, and 40cm / 16" wide?
Or would you use different measurements?
Thanks!

 

[Emilya Green]

I tend to prefer the taller over the wider pots. With a pot that large, it would also depend on my vertical space available though.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ahh, right!! So check the breeder website and see how big it gets?

sure

And pure Sativa probably needs a bigger pot than a sativa dominant, which needs a bigger pot than a balanced, which needs a bigger pot than an indica dominant, right?
(And Northern Lights can live in a 5 or a 7!)

I mean, yeah... sativas are taller than indicas. Sometimes a lot taller. But you can shape any plant some... I'm no expert on that.

Ok, it would be great to know the correct measurements!

Here's a start for you: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+build+fabric+pot

 

[CBDMed]

I tend to prefer the taller over the wider pots. With a pot that large, it would also depend on my vertical space available though.

Thank you, @Emilya !
The plan is to build a greenhouse (or four), probably with a 12' / 4 meter ceiling.

Is it fair (or helpful) to top them more than once?

Thank you!

 

[cbdhemp808]

My 40g pots are 18" tall and 25.8" dia.

30.0g is 18 x 22
25.0g is 18 x 20
13.6g is 16.5 x 15.6
15.0g is 15 x 17.2

When in use dimensions change a bit... for example, the 15g comes out about 14.5" tall.

this is the DIY method I used:

the fabric pattern for these is tricky, as is the building... not something I want to cover on this forum... sorry.

 

[CBDMed]

My 40g pots are 18" tall and 25.8" dia.

30.0g is 18 x 22
25.0g is 18 x 20
13.6g is 16.5 x 15.6
15.0g is 15 x 17.2

When in use dimensions change a bit... for example, the 15g comes out about 14.5" tall.

this is the DIY method I used:

the fabric pattern for these is tricky, as is the building... not something I want to cover on this forum... sorry.

Ok, thank you! I sent a YouTube link to my friend, to see if he can grow them.
Emilya is recommending a taller pot, so I am going to go with that ('cuz she wins prizes, 'n stuff)...

I am having a hrd time finding tall 5G planting pots.
I wonder if it would work to use a 5G bucket and just drill about a hundred 3/8" holes, for aeration?

 

[Emilya Green]

Thank you, @Emilya !
The plan is to build a greenhouse (or four), probably with a 12' / 4 meter ceiling.

Is it fair (or helpful) to top them more than once?

Thank you!

I think you end up with stronger pot if you only top once and then LST from then on

 

[CBDMed]

I think you end up with stronger pot if you only top once and then LST from then on

Fabulous! Thank you @Emilya !!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Everything I have read indicates cannabis grows best in containers that are wider than they are tall. Check out the root system of cannabis. This is what Rosenthal recommends in his Marijuana Grower's Handbook. He talks about a 5/2 ratio... 5 width to 2 height, and gives an example of a square pot with ratio 3 to 1. Another thing... seedlings have a tap root, clones don't. Rosenthal says, a plant with a 2 ft wide canopy will have a root system 1.3 to 2 ft wide. This ratio can be scaled up. So, canopy width is dependent on pot width. Check out these 300g pots.

The above applies more to large pots than it does to small pots.

 

[CBDMed]

Ok, @Emilya , @Azimuth , @bluter , may I please ask for your advice about why a certain strain seems smaller than the rest?
All these plants are on the new routine (mostly based on trying to copy Emilya as much as is practical).
These plants are all on Subcool supersoil with an extra 20% dried wom castings mixed in with the top layer.
Then I also feed everything with BioNova Veganics and Recharge.
The ones in bloom also receive molasses, and a fermented banana-wc tea.

Shall I start from oldest to youngest? (They are all from sponsors.)
These are Kong Super Glue Autos, sativa dominant, all thc. One of the sponsors threw them in as a freebie.
I am happy with them. The only thing is that there are some little white flies that won't go away with organic dish soap spray. Is it possible to add neem oil to the soil during watering?
All of the rest of the girls are getting the same treatment.

Now here are some LSD Autos.
They went into flower before I could cut between 4 and 5, so it is only LST.
Is it possible that #2 (above) is more indica, and #1 (below) is more sativa? (Are these phenos?)

I wonder if maybe PART of the reason they are smaller than the Kong Super Glue Autos is because LSD is a strong indica-dominant strain?
Is so, might that also explain why the NEXT plants are so small?

The next girls are Eleven Roses Autos by Delicious Seeds, given as freebies.
They have been a great company to work with. I don't know, but the salesman compared them to LSD at one point (trying to indicate that they are a strong indica). If so, would that explain why they are smaller?
They are getting the same treatment as all the rest of the girls, but for some reason, they are just not taking off.
If memory serves, they are almost as old as the LSD autos (but much smaller).

Then next come the two Purple Kush Autos.
I think they look good!
They are getting the same routine as the Eleven Roses (above), but they are much bigger!

Next are some Delicious Candy Autos.
They also are looking happy and healthy, and there is some nice side-branching developing after the snip!

Next is a Green Crack Auto (to replace a runt).
She seems happy.

And finally some Auto Blue Ace, just coming up, with their first runoff (maybe a tad early, but that was the time I had).

I guess my question is, the new routine seems to be working (halleluyah!)---but so why are the Eleven Roses Autos so small?
Is it because they are like the LSD autos (strong indica)?
Or did I do something wrong?
The Purple Kush and the Delicious Candy all seem to be vigorous, but not the Eleven Roses.
Is it small for the same reasons the LSD Auto seems small?
Or am I misunderstanding something?
Because my new routine has been the same on all pots.
Thank you!

 

[CBDMed]

Everything I have read indicates cannabis grows best in containers that are wider than they are tall. Check out the root system of cannabis. This is what Rosenthal recommends in his Marijuana Grower's Handbook. He talks about a 5/2 ratio... 5 width to 2 height, and gives an example of a square pot with ratio 3 to 1.

Wow! Ed Rosenthal says that??
Oy.
@Emilya , are you aware of this? (Is Ed Rosenthal's handbook mistaken???)

Another thing... seedlings have a tap root, clones don't.

Sorry, @cbdhemp808 ! I do not understand the significance of this. Would you please be so kind as to school me?

Rosenthal says, a plant with a 2 ft wide canopy will have a root system 1.3 to 2 ft wide. This ratio can be scaled up. So, canopy width is dependent on pot width. Check out these 300g pots.

The above applies more to large pots than it does to small pots.

!!
Ok, please let me wait and see what @Emilya says

 

[CBDMed]

Another thing... seedlings have a tap root, clones don't. Rosenthal says, a plant with a 2 ft wide canopy will have a root system 1.3 to 2 ft wide. This ratio can be scaled up. So, canopy width is dependent on pot width. Check out these 300g pots.

The above applies more to large pots than it does to small pots.

@cbdhemp808 , thank you for this! But one question:
Is Ed Roesnthal basing his handbook on clones, or seeds?
Because like you say, clones do not have a taproot. So is that why he recommends a flatter container?

And if you are growing from seeds, do you want a taller container, because of the taproot?

 

[Sueet]

Hmm...
Good questions all.
I think the basic plan is to divide the cannabis into summer regular grows, and winter regular grows (in batches).

With the photoperiods I would plan a summer greenhouse grow, starting at the spring equinox, and continuing to around the fall equinox.
I will probably top them at least once, and also add some form of Gas Lantern Routine (or other night interruption).
I am glad that the 15G and 40G sizes sound good.

Then for winter grows, I will try to run some form of autos, for variety, and fun.
I am learning more about autos all the time.
If I can catch them before bloom I will try to top them and use LST hoops--and if not there will be LST hoops as a minimum.
I might add some form of night interruption lighting.
I like your solar setup.

I am trying to transition to regular seeds, so it looks like I will need separate greenhouses for males, and I will also be growing in batches.
Sometimes regular seeds come in 5s, 10s, 12s, or 15s, so I will have to plant them and any other auto fems I want, and then weed out all but the best males, and take the best males to a special small side greenhouse for pollen collection.
Then I will hand-pollinate a branch of the best females with a paint brush (and let that branch get old before harvesting).

I have some small paint brushes.
I ordered some small vials for the freezer.
I just remembered I have a friend who can sew.
For the 40G, is it 40cm / 15.75" across, and 70cm / 27.5" tall?
7 tall by 4 wide?

Are there any holes in my plan?

Thanks!

I would question the height of that 40g container... I am no expert, maybe someone else knows for sure, but I don't feel like my plants have done well in tall containers like that, they prefer to be able to spread to the sides as well. If it was mine, I would be looking to reverse those numbers, more like 28 wide and 16 tall.

 

[CBDMed]

I would question the height of that 40g container... I am no expert, maybe someone else knows for sure, but I don't feel like my plants have done well in tall containers like that, they prefer to be able to spread to the sides as well. If it was mine, I would be looking to reverse those numbers, more like 28 wide and 16 tall.

Ok, thank you very much, @Sueet !
I appreciate that.
I saw some tall containers like that, but I saw more wide ones.
The pictures @cbdhemp808 posted about the 300g pots seems impressive.

>> "Check out these 300g pots."

 

[Emilya Green]

Wow! Ed Rosenthal says that??
Oy.
@Emilya , are you aware of this? (Is Ed Rosenthal's handbook mistaken???)



Sorry, @cbdhemp808 ! I do not understand the significance of this. Would you please be so kind as to school me?



!!
Ok, please let me wait and see what @Emilya says

Ed had the basics down, but there were several points that he got wrong or that we just didn't understand yet. We now know that there are two sets of roots on this plant and a taller container lets the deep rooting feeder roots have the room they need too. Yes, clones do have a tap root... one dominant root takes over that duty and specializes in that role as well as several others that specialize in a feeder root capacity and then others develop into the top and middle layer of spreader roots. The plant needs to know where the bottom is after all and still preform all of its functions.