Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[IrisSophie]

Exactly. I use 5 gal plastic buckets, pure water, and worm soil. At the bottom of the bucket are airstones that emit tiny bubbles... the bubbles have to be tiny. I think it brews for about 48 hours, and near the end of the brew I will add a couple tbs of apple juice. (I am not a fan of molasses, because it contains heavy metals.) The sugar helps the beneficial bacteria bloom. When the brewing is done, I run the mixture through panty hose filter twice. This is the concentrate, and then it gets diluted to the right amount by checking the TDS pen. The tea needs to be used fairly quickly; however, you can keep the bubbles running and that will preserve it for a while, but best to use it asap.

How much should the TDS value measured with the digital refractometer dilute it to?

 

[cbdhemp808]

How much should the TDS value measured with the digital refractometer dilute it to?

Hi @IrisSophie and welcome to the forum!

Thanks for your question. I got the TDS values from K. Morrow's book, Marijuana Horticulture Fundamentals, and Rosenthal's book, Marijuana Grower's Handbook.

These values are specifically for a batch of tea made of 1 part compost and 4 parts pure water, in a 5 gallon bucket. I used 10 cups worm castings (no worms!), 3 cups bat guano (N), and 3 cups seabird guano (P) = 16 cups (1 gallon).

For a soil drench, dilute the finished, double-filtered concentrate to:

• For plants in veg, 400-600 ppm.
• For plants in flower, 700-900 ppm.

For foliar spray: up to 500 ppm.

Do you know for sure if that refractometer can do proper TDS of water? I suppose so, because coffee is water with tannins and other stuff in it. I use a Pancellent TDS "water quality" meter (pic below). Something like this costs under $20 – mine was combined with a digital pH meter for around $20. I see that the refractometer costs $136.

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @Azimuth .
Here is two little fish guts inhabiting a 1500ml container, with brown sugar, and a tsp of wc.
I tried to "bread" the fish with the brown sugar and wc, and I also tried to work it so that the sugar was on the bottom of the jar, and also on all sides of the fish.
There was some brown sugar left over, so I put on like a 3/4" cap.
How does this look?

And here is that fish wine.
The black cap on top is a little disconcerting. (I am not sure if it might be fish guts.)
Does it look to you like it is processing correctly (such that it makes sense to continue the experiment)?
Or is it time to pour it out, and wash the jar?
Thank you.

 

[Azimuth]

First one looks good, but you're still on your own with the second.

 

[CBDMed]

Oy. It is happening again!
I have three (3) 11 Roses Autos (by a sponsor).
I soaked and then planted them direct in soil on 6/16, and they all came up 100%.
Only, I was hoping to make the HST cut between the 4th and 5th nodes before she went into flower.
Here it is day 27, and she has pistils (she started 2-3 days ago), so I am obviously not going to be able to make the cut between the 4th and 5th nodes.

It looks like I am too late to give this girl a haircut, so the best I can do for her at this point is to LST her.
Only, in the future, if there are no pistils and I am coming up on 30 days, and the space between the 4th and 5th nodes is not accessible, is it ok to cut between the 3rd and 4t nodes?
Or is LST a better way to go, if you cannot get to the stem between the 4th and 5th nodes?

 

[Bill284]

Usually if you let her grow a bit you can access the space you need.
But cutting shorter is an option.
Give her Tim to space out then top her.
Hope your having a great day my friend.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[CBDMed]

Usually if you let her grow a bit you can access the space you need.

Thanks @Bill284 !
Only, sorry, I am not sure what you mean.
Do you mean let her grow, and then cut her in bloom???? (Oy!)

But cutting shorter is an option.

Yeah, ok.
But so, if I plant more than one at the same time, and one starts throwing pistils, I can just go ahead and top them where they are? (Like, between nodes 3 and 4?)
Just don't top them in bloom?

Give her Tim to space out then top her.
Hope your having a great day my friend.


Stay safe
Bill284

I appreciate that you have a lot of growing experience, so I am hoping to understand yuor exact meaning!
Thanks.

 

[Bill284]

Thanks @Bill284 !
Only, sorry, I am not sure what you mean.
Do you mean let her grow, and then cut her in bloom???? (Oy!)


Yeah, ok.
But so, if I plant more than one at the same time, and one starts throwing pistils, I can just go ahead and top them where they are? (Like, between nodes 3 and 4?)
Just don't top them in bloom?



I appreciate that you have a lot of growing experience, so I am hoping to understand yuor exact meaning!
Thanks.

You keep mentioning pistils, is it an auto?
What I ment was if you give her a few days to grow the space between the 4th and 5th node will grow larger giving you room to get your Scissors in there and cut it off.

If it's an auto it shouldn't go into flower until about week 4ish.
But I'm not an auto grower myself and personally would do LST if it was an auto.
I don't mind helping with anything I can my friend.
My door is always open, anything you need.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[CBDMed]

You keep mentioning pistils, is it an auto?

Yes. (11 Roses Auto)

What I ment was if you give her a few days to grow the space between the 4th and 5th node will grow larger giving you room to get your Scissors in there and cut it off.

Yeah, thanks!
I would do that, but she looks like she is already going into flower, and I read not to snip them in flower, because it sets them back too much, and it is not worth it.
So I was hoping for the stem between nodes 4 and 5, but she started throwing pistils already, so it looks like LST.

If it's an auto it shouldn't go into flower until about week 4ish.

Sí. I am a little surprised.
I was able to snip the Kong Super Glue Autos, and they are doing great!
My LSDAutos started throwing pistils about 25 days, and now these 11 Roses are also throwing pistils at about the same (25 days).
Emmie snipped her auto, so I was hoping to snip mine. Now it looks like lST is the best I can do.

But I'm not an auto grower myself and personally would do LST if it was an auto.
I don't mind helping with anything I can my friend.
My door is always open, anything you need.
Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks, @Bill284 !
Well, I guess it is a good thing that I bought a bunch of LST training stakes already! Hahaha.

Since this is a recurrent problem (not just the LSDAs), in the next wave of girls I might see what happens if you make the cut between nodes 3 and 4.
To ask, is there anything super-special or sacrosanct about space between node 4 and node 5, that I will be messing up if I snip between 3 and 4?
Or is it just that the plant is well underway by the time it gets past node 4, so that is when photoperiod growers got into habit of making a snip, if they were going to?

 

[Bill284]

Yes. (11 Roses Auto)

Yeah, thanks!
I would do that, but she looks like she is already going into flower, and I read not to snip them in flower, because it sets them back too much, and it is not worth it.
So I was hoping for the stem between nodes 4 and 5, but she started throwing pistils already, so it looks like LST.


Sí. I am a little surprised.
I was able to snip the Kong Super Glue Autos, and they are doing great!
My LSDAutos started throwing pistils about 25 days, and now these 11 Roses are also throwing pistils at about the same (25 days).
Emmie snipped her auto, so I was hoping to snip mine. Now it looks like lST is the best I can do.


Thanks, @Bill284 !
Well, I guess it is a good thing that I bought a bunch of LST training stakes already! Hahaha.

Since this is a recurrent problem (not just the LSDAs), in the next wave of girls I might see what happens if you make the cut between nodes 3 and 4.
To ask, is there anything super-special or sacrosanct about space between node 4 and node 5, that I will be messing up if I snip between 3 and 4?
Or is it just that the plant is well underway by the time it gets past node 4, so that is when photoperiod growers got into habit of making a snip, if they were going to?

My apologies my friend I went back and looked at the pic.
You are correct she is throwing pistils.
I have one now just by chance, 4 weeks old only an inch high.
I'm not a fan of autos but I was given the seeds so I wanted to show them.
Ok yours is going to be a runt no matter what but don't top her now.
Just let her grow out you might get a bud or 2
The reason we wait for 5 nodes is to give the plant enough time to mature grow some roots and develop enough leaves.
If you look at the branching the nodes are adjacent up to 4.
Then the alternative left , right instead of side by side.
This is generally considered a mature enough plant to top.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Emilya Green]

To ask, is there anything super-special or sacrosanct about space between node 4 and node 5, that I will be messing up if I snip between 3 and 4?

each node's cut acts a little differently. Cutting between 4-5 give you 2 main colas and slows down the plant a little bit before it goes into maturity (alternating nodes or pistils in an Auto). The 4-5 cut give you plenty of time for nodes 1-3 to rise up to the canopy, giving you 6 additional colas going into bloom.

The 5-6 cut is right at the point of the plant becoming mature. The cut does not stop it, and you get 2 main colas, but not as much side growth will rise up to the top. This cut tends to create a taller and less producing plant than the 4-5 cut.

The 3-4 cut is very special in that it confuses the plant. This cut acts like a FIM and takes the longest to resolve. The plant will usually stall out while it thinks about what to do about this cut, and you can get anywhere from 2-5 colas from this single cut. Depending on how this cut resolves, the plant can take on several odd shapes, but it can end up being a big producer. I don't like the uncertainty about this cut.

The 2-3 cut is commonly called Uncle Ben's method, It usually involves waiting until the 5th node is rising, and then the gardener makes this drastic cut at 2-3. Because of waiting and the several large fan leaves that have developed, even with this cut the plant still has enough energy to develop quickly, and you always end up with 4 main colas as a result of this cut. This is the most common way to start a quad or mainline training and will result in a short, high producing plant.

 

[CBDMed]

each node's cut acts a little differently. Cutting between 4-5 give you 2 main colas and slows down the plant a little bit before it goes into maturity (alternating nodes or pistils in an Auto). The 4-5 cut give you plenty of time for nodes 1-3 to rise up to the canopy, giving you 6 additional colas going into bloom.

The 5-6 cut is right at the point of the plant becoming mature. The cut does not stop it, and you get 2 main colas, but not as much side growth will rise up to the top. This cut tends to create a taller and less producing plant than the 4-5 cut.

The 3-4 cut is very special in that it confuses the plant. This cut acts like a FIM and takes the longest to resolve. The plant will usually stall out while it thinks about what to do about this cut, and you can get anywhere from 2-5 colas from this single cut. Depending on how this cut resolves, the plant can take on several odd shapes, but it can end up being a big producer. I don't like the uncertainty about this cut.

The 2-3 cut is commonly called Uncle Ben's method, It usually involves waiting until the 5th node is rising, and then the gardener makes this drastic cut at 2-3. Because of waiting and the several large fan leaves that have developed, even with this cut the plant still has enough energy to develop quickly, and you always end up with 4 main colas as a result of this cut. This is the most common way to start a quad or mainline training and will result in a short, high producing plant.

Thank you, @Emilya !
I feel like I just digested a book chapter, or something!
(I hope I digested it right...)

Well...
The first strain (Kong freebie) made it to the 4-5 cut.
The next two are not making it to the 4-5 cut.
I am not sure how the next strain will do.
I can LST, but I may also have to do some experimenting with the 3-4 cut, so see how often it works out, and how often it does not.

Is Uncle Ben's out, because you make that cut when the 5th node is rising, and some of the plants are already in bloom before that?
Or how would you read all of that?

 

[CBDMed]

My apologies my friend I went back and looked at the pic.
You are correct she is throwing pistils.
I have one now just by chance, 4 weeks old only an inch high.
I'm not a fan of autos but I was given the seeds so I wanted to show them.
Ok yours is going to be a runt no matter what but don't top her now.
Just let her grow out you might get a bud or 2
The reason we wait for 5 nodes is to give the plant enough time to mature grow some roots and develop enough leaves.
If you look at the branching the nodes are adjacent up to 4.
Then the alternative left , right instead of side by side.
This is generally considered a mature enough plant to top.


Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks @Bill284 !
For the ones that don't make it to the cut, I can try to get good at LST, I guess.
The stems are still pliable so I can try to do that this afternoon.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thank you, @Emilya !
I feel like I just digested a book chapter, or something!
(I hope I digested it right...)

Well...
The first strain (Kong freebie) made it to the 4-5 cut.
The next two are not making it to the 4-5 cut.
I am not sure how the next strain will do.
I can LST, but I may also have to do some experimenting with the 3-4 cut, so see how often it works out, and how often it does not.

Is Uncle Ben's out, because you make that cut when the 5th node is rising, and some of the plants are already in bloom before that?
Or how would you read all of that?

I wouldnt think that Uncle Bens method would work on an auto. I did 4-5 on mine and usually prefer that cut, but on my next round I am doing 5-6 just to see what happens under my red lights. Also, I tend to make just one cut and then strongly apply LST from then on.

 

[CBDMed]

I wouldnt think that Uncle Bens method would work on an auto. I did 4-5 on mine and usually prefer that cut, but on my next round I am doing 5-6 just to see what happens under my red lights. Also, I tend to make just one cut and then strongly apply LST from then on.

Yeah, thanks for that, @Emilya !
I understand the principle behind coppicing, but for an auto that just seems way too much. (But I will try to remember it for when I get to photos, though.)

I got 4-5 on the Kong Super Glue (freebies).
She grew up a little. I was not sure if I should spread her out, or just let her grow up like she is.
I have lots of hoops, I am just not sure if I am supposed to use them at this point.

Here is Kongetta #1:

And here is Kongetta #2:

Do I give her a new hairdo? (Haha.)
Beehive? (Hahaha.)
Or do I just let her hair grow out straight?
She is still pretty pliable, but not like she was.

 

[Emilya Green]

Use more hoops and get those dominant branches as close to horizontal as you can get them, all the way out to the edge. This fight for dominance is what makes the middle growth rise up to the top.

 

[CBDMed]

each node's cut acts a little differently. Cutting between 4-5 give you 2 main colas and slows down the plant a little bit before it goes into maturity (alternating nodes or pistils in an Auto). The 4-5 cut give you plenty of time for nodes 1-3 to rise up to the canopy, giving you 6 additional colas going into bloom.

The 5-6 cut is right at the point of the plant becoming mature. The cut does not stop it, and you get 2 main colas, but not as much side growth will rise up to the top. This cut tends to create a taller and less producing plant than the 4-5 cut.

The 3-4 cut is very special in that it confuses the plant. This cut acts like a FIM and takes the longest to resolve. The plant will usually stall out while it thinks about what to do about this cut, and you can get anywhere from 2-5 colas from this single cut. Depending on how this cut resolves, the plant can take on several odd shapes, but it can end up being a big producer. I don't like the uncertainty about this cut.

The 2-3 cut is commonly called Uncle Ben's method, It usually involves waiting until the 5th node is rising, and then the gardener makes this drastic cut at 2-3. Because of waiting and the several large fan leaves that have developed, even with this cut the plant still has enough energy to develop quickly, and you always end up with 4 main colas as a result of this cut. This is the most common way to start a quad or mainline training and will result in a short, high producing plant.

Thanks, @Emilya !
I printed this out, and will try to follow it as I experiment.

Just to ask, would you ever cut at 2-3 when the plant was still smaller?
Or just leave that alone on an auto?

 

[CBDMed]

Use more hoops and get those dominant branches as close to horizontal as you can get them, all the way out to the edge. This fight for dominance is what makes the middle growth rise up to the top.

Great!
Perfect!
Thank you!
I will try to make that happen today, if I can.

 

[Emilya Green]

no, that cut low and early would likely stall the plant out if not outright kill it.

 

[Azimuth]

each node's cut acts a little differently. Cutting between 4-5 give you 2 main colas and slows down the plant a little bit before it goes into maturity (alternating nodes or pistils in an Auto). The 4-5 cut give you plenty of time for nodes 1-3 to rise up to the canopy, giving you 6 additional colas going into bloom.

The 5-6 cut is right at the point of the plant becoming mature. The cut does not stop it, and you get 2 main colas, but not as much side growth will rise up to the top. This cut tends to create a taller and less producing plant than the 4-5 cut.

The 3-4 cut is very special in that it confuses the plant. This cut acts like a FIM and takes the longest to resolve. The plant will usually stall out while it thinks about what to do about this cut, and you can get anywhere from 2-5 colas from this single cut. Depending on how this cut resolves, the plant can take on several odd shapes, but it can end up being a big producer. I don't like the uncertainty about this cut.

The 2-3 cut is commonly called Uncle Ben's method, It usually involves waiting until the 5th node is rising, and then the gardener makes this drastic cut at 2-3. Because of waiting and the several large fan leaves that have developed, even with this cut the plant still has enough energy to develop quickly, and you always end up with 4 main colas as a result of this cut. This is the most common way to start a quad or mainline training and will result in a short, high producing plant.

Thanks @Emilya ! I thought you had shared those thoughts a while back and a week or two ago I went looking but wasn't able to locate it. It was a pleasant surprise to see you post it again!