Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

Huh. Imagine that.

Sí!
Good suggestion, @Azimuth !

So, I will go back to mixing 20% wc into the soil.

Only, one question.
If I use wc for a top-dressing, do they "spend out" (like a teabag), and then later they are good for nothing?
Or is it that an outer part of the wom castings dissolve, such that what is left of the top-dressing can be mixed in the same as unused wc?

In other words, can I mix those top dressing wc in? Or are they already spent?
I hope I am phrasing this clearly.

I've never grown with SubCool's soil, but the "enhanced" organic soils that need composting time is really about letting them assimilate and start to break down the inputs so you don't burn your plants. The soils will literally heat up from all of the microbe activity for a bit. So, just reach your hand down into the middle of the pile and make sure it is not too hot to put your plants into. If it has now cooled, it should be good to go!

Great! Excellent news!
I stuck my hand into the middle of the bucket, and everything felt cold.
So, I think @Emilya said that she used to put 1/3 on the bottom of her Solo cups before she switched to GeoFlora.
I don't have GeoFlora or DynoMyco or Sweet Candy yet, but I am sure Subcools and worm castings will still do a good job!
Hooray!!!!~~
Thank you, @Emilya , and @Azimuth , and everyone!


I am already starting to drool! Haha

 

[Azimuth]

So, I will go back to mixing 20% wc into the soil.

Worm castings, especially fresh worm castings which is what I use, can be a bit dense so make sure you have enough aeration material mixed in. I use 6.25% worm castings in mine. Actually, I combine them with charcoal from burning wood to make biochar and that component is 1/8 of my mix.

And then I do a nice thick layer on top of the soil as a top dress (maybe an inch or so) and then I cover that with a mulch layer, leaf mold in my case. If you don't cover fresh worm castings they will dry out into a very hard brick, an no one wants that.

If I use wc for a top-dressing, do they "spend out" (like a teabag), and then later they are good for nothing?
Or is it that an outer part of the wom castings dissolve, such that what is left of the top-dressing can be mixed in the same as unused wc?

I don't follow the question. But generally, as you water the soil, the worm castings will liquify down into the soil over time and with it a healthy amount of microbes and enzymes that were contained in them.

 

[CBDMed]

Worm castings, especially fresh worm castings which is what I use, can be a bit dense so make sure you have enough aeration material mixed in. I use 6.25% worm castings in mine. Actually, I combine them with charcoal from burning wood to make biochar and that component is 1/8 of my mix.

Cool. I have heard great things about Biochar, but never used it.
Is that all you have to do, is mix wc with charcoal?
And what does the charcoal do?

And then I do a nice thick layer on top of the soil as a top dress (maybe an inch or so) and then I cover that with a mulch layer, leaf mold in my case. If you don't cover fresh worm castings they will dry out into a very hard brick, an no one wants that.

Yeah, I made the mistake of putting a layer of WC on my new solo cups, and then it dried like a brick, so I actually pulled them to one side, so that the little girls could come up.
So I think next time I will just go back to mixing it in with my soil 20% (since it seems to work so well for me).
We will see what I can come up with for leaf mold someday. The trees around here are kinda different (banana and papaya fronds, etc...).

I don't follow the question. But generally, as you water the soil, the worm castings will liquify down into the soil over time and with it a healthy amount of microbes and enzymes that were contained in them.

Ahhh, sorry. I guess I could have been clearer.
My question is, after I have used the WC as a top-dressing layer, are they "spent" like a used teabag (and throw them on the compost pile)?
Or are they still good ('cause they don't "spend" like a teabag, but maybe a little of the outer layer washes off, is all), and so I can mix those in with future batches of soil, and they will have the same potency as wormcastings that have not been used as a topdressing?

(If I am still not clear, please ask again.)
Thank you.

 

[Azimuth]

Cool. I have heard great things about Biochar, but never used it.
Is that all you have to do, is mix wc with charcoal?
And what does the charcoal do?

Acts like a condominium for microbes. I saw a stat somewhere that the structure of char has so much surface area because of how it's created. Something like every teaspoon of char has the same surface area of a football field. That surface area is spread out over microscopic holes that are perfect for microbes. Soils rich in biochar hold the fertility for thousands of years. Research Terra Negra (Black Soil) which originated in your part of the world.

And that's all I do. I mix it 50/50 with fresh worm castings and let it sit in a covered bucket until I need it. It does need some time to infuse though as straight char in your mix will act as a sponge or filter and suck up the nutrients you are trying to feed you plants and leaving deficiencies in the near term. But, if you let it sit a while before you use it, it becomes a source of nutrients and moisture for your plants.

We will see what I can come up with for leaf mold someday. The trees around here are kinda different (banana and papaya fronds, etc...).

I don't see where that would be much different. Just pile a bunch of leaves and fronds in a pile at least a meter deep and wide, moisten it like a compost pile and let it sit for a couple of years. That should give you the same basic stuff I'm working with.

Or are they still good ('cause they don't "spend" like a teabag, but maybe a little of the outer layer washes off, is all), and so I can mix those in with future batches of soil, and they will have the same potency as wormcastings that have not been used as a topdressing?

You can mix them into the soil if there is anything left, but they should dissolve over time into your mix. The 20% you mix into your soil should leave voids in the soil as it dissolves leaving space for the growing roots to inhabit.

 

[CBDMed]

Acts like a condominium for microbes. I saw a stat somewhere that the structure of char has so much surface area because of how it's created. Something like every teaspoon of char has the same surface area of a football field. That surface area is spread out over microscopic holes that are perfect for microbes. Soils rich in biochar hold the fertility for thousands of years. Research Terra Negra (Black Soil) which originated in your part of the world.

Black soil is that heavy black clay soil with all the volcanic ash that I tried opening up (with coco coir and Perlite) at the start of this thread (on page one).
It seems there is a covered grow site near here, and they seed straight into this soil (probably they till it, but I don't know).
Apparently it makes a great ground soil, but not good for pots. And so I tried to open it up, but not nearly enough, because I could not find any proper cannabis soil.
Now I have good soil, and supersoil. But it sounds like it would be better with biochar!

And that's all I do. I mix it 50/50 with fresh worm castings and let it sit in a covered bucket until I need it. It does need some time to infuse though as straight char in your mix will act as a sponge or filter and suck up the nutrients you are trying to feed you plants and leaving deficiencies in the near term. But, if you let it sit a while before you use it, it becomes a source of nutrients and moisture for your plants.

Ok, cool.
How long is, "a while"?

I don't see where that would be much different. Just pile a bunch of leaves and fronds in a pile at least a meter deep and wide, moisten it like a compost pile and let it sit for a couple of years. That should give you the same basic stuff I'm working with.

Ok. We are hopeful to have our paperwork done soon, and are already looking at properties.
Once we find a place, we should have room for experiments, organics, compost, etc.
I was told that what they do here is to dig a big hole (however big you think your root ball will be), and then just throw your kitchen waste into it (with lots of egg shells and bananas, and maybe some rice hulls, which are dirt cheap here), and then let the worms at it.
Then I guess they normally plant a big start here at the start of summer (normally June), and let it run until fall.
They say that both Maria and Juana love it, so of course we will have to give it a try!
So that will be an in-ground greenhouse, which will be different still.
I had an in-ground greenhouse in northern California one time. There I had a bird mesh permanently installed, and then I took the plastic off for summer.
Here I will probably just put big passive vents I can open during the day.
I am looking forward to learning about your Korean fermented soils! I just need to focus on my basics for right now, and then when we move, I hope to try things the Korean way!
I love Kimchi, and sauerkraut, and am generally a pushover for fermented anything.
I am eager to try some Malawi fermented cannabis!
But I will also probably have to learn how to properly cure, first, haha.

You can mix them into the soil if there is anything left, but they should dissolve over time into your mix. The 20% you mix into your soil should leave voids in the soil as it dissolves leaving space for the growing roots to inhabit.

Ok, cool.
So, not like a teabag (that gets spent), but like a hard pellet of worm poo, that washes a way a bit at a time?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but in that case, I will treat it the same as new (and measure it by weight).

 

[Azimuth]

Black soil is that heavy black clay soil with all the volcanic ash that I tried opening up (with coco coir and Perlite) at the start of this thread (on page one).

It's whatever the rainforest soil is, but I thought that was sandy. It is the char in it that gives it the color.

Ok, cool.
How long is, "a while"?

At least a couple of weeks for straight worm castings but it can be charged up more quickly in a compost or worm tea. Maybe a few days to a week or so.

I just make a big batch and leave it in the bucket and take out only what I need when making a batch of my mix.

I usually have a couple of buckets going, one I'm working out of and the other in reserve. When the first one is empty I fill it with new castings and char and rotate it to the back and work out of the other one.

Ok, cool.
So, not like a teabag (that gets spent), but like a hard pellet of worm poo, that washes a way a bit at a time?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but in that case, I will treat it the same as new (and measure it by weight).

My stuff is fresh and is like a mucky soil texture. When I put it in a bucket of water it dissolves fairly quickly. There are always some little balls of stuff stuck together but they're easy to break up with the back of a spoon.

 

[CBDMed]

It's whatever the rainforest soil is, but I thought that was sandy. It is the char in it that gives it the color.

Well, long story. I am not sure what anyone else calls "black soil". Here there is a 12-15" layer of topsoil that is often a very thick clay, with lots of organic matter, and oftentimes volcanic ash. Under that it can be whatever it is, but usually either clay on a slope, or sand in the valleys.
There are may different kinds of rainforest here, but I am sure when we finally get to wherever we are going, there will be some kind of organic matter that can be composted, and fermented, and etc. But I will have to look once we find the property.

At least a couple of weeks for straight worm castings but it can be charged up more quickly in a compost or worm tea. Maybe a few days to a week or so.

I just make a big batch and leave it in the bucket and take out only what I need when making a batch of my mix.

I usually have a couple of buckets going, one I'm working out of and the other in reserve. When the first one is empty I fill it with new castings and char and rotate it to the back and work out of the other one.

Ok, good idea! Good to know!
Thanks, Az.

My stuff is fresh and is like a mucky soil texture. When I put it in a bucket of water it dissolves fairly quickly. There are always some little balls of stuff stuck together but they're easy to break up with the back of a spoon.

Yeah, I am getting a picture. Thanks!
So I can recycle the top dressing! Cool.

 

[CBDMed]

Gooooooooodddd morning, @Azimuth and @Emilya !
The banana fertilizer tea is at three weeks today (and I have to water either this afternoon, or tomorrow).
I am happy, happy, happy!
Here is how the two teas look from the side. The straight banana tea is on the left, and the banana + worm castings tea is on the right.

And here is the straight nana, from the top. The top has a little more mold than the wc formula, and it smells faintly like banana vinegar (as predicted). (Not a bad smell.)

And here is the banana with maybe a tablespoon of worm castings, fermented at the same time. It smells faintly of cat poo, but very soft. (It is a softer smell than the straight nana. It also has less top mold / scum.)

It seems interesting that the top scum and the smell are different with the banana and worm castings (Jadam?) teas.
It makes me wonder what else should be added (or not added, or done separately, etc.).

Any comments?

Also, how much do I use?

And this supplies K during flowering?

Thank you!

 

[Azimuth]

The Jadam extracts are generally used at at least a 1:20 to 1:300 dilution ratio. Some of the more intense ones like fish are 1:50 to 1:500.

So start there and pay attention to your plants' reaction.

And take just what you need and let the rest continue on. Eventually it will morph into what I call a 'springtime horse barn' smell. Still not great, but not the 'something died in my jar' smell it starts out as.

 

[CBDMed]

The Jadam extracts are generally used at at least a 1:20 to 1:300 dilution ratio.

Ok, cool. Thank you, @Azimuth .
I see there are 192 teaspoons in a quart (liter), or roughly 200 teaspoons per liter.
So, 1 teaspoon per liter, to start with?
And I assume I take away the crusties (and to not apply them to the plants)?
Or how would you do it?

Some of the more intense ones like fish are 1:50 to 1:500.

I am very intrigued. We used to use fish fertilizer a long time ago, and those plants always looked great.
I can get trout here. (It is farmed, but it is trout. Non-farmed I cannot get here.)
Is it possible to make with trout?
And how would one make it?
And what does it work for?

So start there and pay attention to your plants' reaction.

Yes, from reading @Emilya 's posts, I get the sense that I need to schedule a little bit of time just to sit in the room, and study the patterns that appear. So I hope to get time to do that starting tomorrow.
Time has been very tight, but hopefully it will start to open up in a few months.

And take just what you need and let the rest continue on.

Ok. Thanks!

Eventually it will morph into what I call a 'springtime horse barn' smell. Still not great, but not the 'something died in my jar' smell it starts out as.

Haha! Ok, I cannot wait to try it!
And I start to apply this normally when I first start to see pistils?

 

[CBDMed]

Ok, so I just got a little bit of time, and want to start some new seeds.
The two Kong Super Glue Autos are growing well, and also the two LSD Autos.
GeoFlora and DynoMyco are not yet here.
However, Subcool's supersoil is done cooking! (Halleluyah!)
So, now that we have a lot of earlier errors corrected, I want to see how we can do with some new seeds.

I want to plant three of Eleven Roses Auto by Delicious Seeds (which is one of the sponsors).
This is from their website:

GENOTYPE	30% SATIVA - 60% INDICA - 10% RUDERALIS
THC	22%
LIFE CYCLE	60-70 DAYS

PRODUCTION

500-550 G/M2 INDOOR | 150-200 G/PL OUTDOOR

LINEAGE

SUGAR BLACK ROSE X BAY11

(Okay, okay, I know it is not a 1:1 strain, but I plan to get my CBD from some existing bottles of drops....)

I think @Emilya said that back when she was using supersoil, she would fill her Solo cups 1/3 full.
So, my plan is to fill the bottom 1/3 cup with supersoil, and then to fill the rest of the bucket with the boutique potting soil mixed with 10-20% worm castings. (We will see how much wc I actually add, but I used to add a lot. I think at least 20%.)
Then from there I have (Orca) liquid mycos, which I will try to re-apply at least once a week (until the DynoMyco gets here).
I am assuming that I should not need the CalMag with the supersoil, but maybe for the first feeding it would not hurt?

My questions:
When do I start using molasses? With the first watering? Or when she starts to change over to bloom (i.e., when I start to see pistils)?)

Thanks for your much-apprecaited advice.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, cool. Thank you, @Azimuth .
I see there are 192 teaspoons in a quart (liter), or roughly 200 teaspoons per liter.
So, 1 teaspoon per liter, to start with?

Yes, that will be pretty weak though. I'd probably start closer to the middle as the 1:200 dose is more like a background, maintenance kind of thing.

And I assume I take away the crusties (and to not apply them to the plants)?
Or how would you do it?

I keep two jars going. One larger jar where most of the fermenting happens and a smaller one I work out of. When the small jar is used up I stir up the contents of the large jar and then pour enough through a filter to fill the small one. Then I take a corresponding amount of new material and water and add it to the large jar to refill it and keep it going.

That way the larger jar always has a mix of old and new ferment.

I am very intrigued. We used to use fish fertilizer a long time ago, and those plants always looked great.
I can get trout here. (It is farmed, but it is trout. Non-farmed I cannot get here.)
Is it possible to make with trout?
And how would one make it?
And what does it work for?

Any fish will work. The best ones are the deep blue, ocean fish like mackerel or blue fish, but anything is good. Even fish guts and bones are great if you want to eat the filets.

To make it, mix the fish with an equal amount of brown sugar by weight and a little worm castings, cover and let it sit out of the sun for at least 6 months.

And I start to apply this normally when I first start to see pistils?

Right.

Okay, okay, I know it is not a 1:1 strain, but I plan to get my CBD from some existing bottles of drops....)

Usually the "1:1 strains" are referring to the thc:cbd ratio (not the indica to sativa ratio). Your listing doesn't show anything for cbd. If they do not make a point of noting what it is it is usually just a trace amount like the other cannabinoids.

I am assuming that I should not need the CalMag with the supersoil, but maybe for the first feeding it would not hurt?

Seeds need a very mild soil to get started so make sure there is at least a pocket of it around the seed. And the seed has all the nutrients it needs to get started. So no feeding at all until it has a set or two of its true leaves (not counting the seed leaves).

 

[Emilya Green]

you can use LAB to break down fish much faster than 6 months. Chop up your fish and put a bit of lacto in there and you will have fish hydrolysate in about a month.

It would be easy to put enough magnesium in the soil to last for an entire grow, but the reason it is not done is that magnesium builds up in the soil if it is not used, and it will lock out several other critical nutrients. This is why we use magnesium supplements when needed and rely on it coming in with our water, because in small amounts it does not cause lockouts. This is why the supplements usually include calcium, one of the major elements that magnesium will lock out. So I don't recommend giving magnesium proactively but instead I suggest that you wait until you see signs that your plants are needing extra mag.

 

[Azimuth]

I'm running a test right now using both worm castings and LAB to break down comfrey in two differnt jars and will say I am wholey unimpressed with the LAB. I'll re-run the test after I make a fresh batch as my LAB isn't the freshest, but so far for comfrey, at least, it's no contest in my little test.

 

[CBDMed]

Yes, that will be pretty weak though. I'd probably start closer to the middle as the 1:200 dose is more like a background, maintenance kind of thing.

Ok, would you please check my math?
If 1 tsp/liter = +/- 1:200.
then 10 tsp/liter = +/- 1:20.
Or 40 tsp/gallon = +/- 1:20.
40 tsp = +/- 0.6 liter.
So, maybe 0.5 liter of Banana-Jadam per gallon of fertilizer??
(On the one hand, that seems like a lot. And on the other hand, it is free.)

I keep two jars going. One larger jar where most of the fermenting happens and a smaller one I work out of. When the small jar is used up I stir up the contents of the large jar and then pour enough through a filter to fill the small one. Then I take a corresponding amount of new material and water and add it to the large jar to refill it and keep it going.

That way the larger jar always has a mix of old and new ferment.

Good idea. Thank you!

Any fish will work. The best ones are the deep blue, ocean fish like mackerel or blue fish, but anything is good. Even fish guts and bones are great if you want to eat the filets.

To make it, mix the fish with an equal amount of brown sugar by weight and a little worm castings, cover and let it sit out of the sun for at least 6 months.

Ok, great!
Haha, and what is it used for?
Hahaha

Usually the "1:1 strains" are referring to the thc:cbd ratio (not the indica to sativa ratio). Your listing doesn't show anything for cbd. If they do not make a point of noting what it is it is usually just a trace amount like the other cannabinoids.

Well, CBD helps me, but THC also really helps me.
I chose this strain to test your theory that I am going to get more bud from all-THC strains (and then I can mix for THC and CBD in the bowl).
(I just happen to have a lot of CBD oil left over, which I plan to use up with this THC bud.)
Plus they say it has some Kush genetics, and I am wanting some Kush!

Seeds need a very mild soil to get started so make sure there is at least a pocket of it around the seed. And the seed has all the nutrients it needs to get started. So no feeding at all until it has a set or two of its true leaves (not counting the seed leaves).

Ok, got it! Thanks.

 

[CBDMed]

you can use LAB to break down fish much faster than 6 months. Chop up your fish and put a bit of lacto in there and you will have fish hydrolysate in about a month.

It would be easy to put enough magnesium in the soil to last for an entire grow, but the reason it is not done is that magnesium builds up in the soil if it is not used, and it will lock out several other critical nutrients. This is why we use magnesium supplements when needed and rely on it coming in with our water, because in small amounts it does not cause lockouts. This is why the supplements usually include calcium, one of the major elements that magnesium will lock out. So I don't recommend giving magnesium proactively but instead I suggest that you wait until you see signs that your plants are needing extra mag.

Thanks, @Emilya !
I see that you pros know how to read the leaves for signs of deficiency, stress, etc.
As I start to get the basics down, and start to get a little more sophisticated, I will try to learn what signs indicate what deficiencies, or excesses, etc.
Right now I am juuusssstttt starting to feel like I *might be starting to get handle on the basics.
Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm running a test right now using both worm castings and LAB to break down comfrey in two differnt jars and will say I am wholey unimpressed with the LAB. I'll re-run the test after I make a fresh batch as my LAB isn't the freshest, but so far for comfrey, at least, it's no contest in my little test.

Thanks, I'll be interested to hear how it goes.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks, @Emilya !
I see that you pros know how to read the leaves for signs of deficiency, stress, etc.
As I start to get the basics down, and start to get a little more sophisticated, I will try to learn what signs indicate what deficiencies, or excesses, etc.
Right now I am juuusssstttt starting to feel like I *might be starting to get handle on the basics.
Thank you.

and in your learning of the basics, one of the first things you need to learn to recognize is the magnesium deficiency. It usually starts out in the lower leaves as dead areas at the ends of the leaves and large copper colored spots in the middle of the leaves. This problem then will start moving up into the middle growth. As soon as you start seeing this lower leaf problem, it is time to start giving magnesium, and usually once a plant shows that it is not getting enough from the soil and the water, it can usually be assumed that the plant will need supplementing for the rest of the grow.

 

[CBDMed]

and in your learning of the basics, one of the first things you need to learn to recognize is the magnesium deficiency. It usually starts out in the lower leaves as dead areas at the ends of the leaves and large copper colored spots in the middle of the leaves. This problem then will start moving up into the middle growth. As soon as you start seeing this lower leaf problem, it is time to start giving magnesium, and usually once a plant shows that it is not getting enough from the soil and the water, it can usually be assumed that the plant will need supplementing for the rest of the grow.

Makes perfect sense, thank you, @Emilya !

Well, I was hoping to start looking into the Rev, but what you are saying makes more sense. I should learn to read plant nutrient deficiency patterns, first, huh?

So, kind of like, if learning the basics of how to water your plants and feed them on time without killing them is #101, then maybe learning to read nutrient deficiency patterns so you can feed the poor little girls the right thing for each one of their individual constitutions is probably #102, huh?

So what are you really saying, Em?
I need to stop treating feeding time like a cafeteria lineup, but to learn instead to provide each little girl with some good home cooking, and her favorite dish each time, so that each little girl's individual health can be maximized?
That;s #102, right?
(Hahahaha.)

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, would you please check my math?
If 1 tsp/liter = +/- 1:200.
then 10 tsp/liter = +/- 1:20.
Or 40 tsp/gallon = +/- 1:20.
40 tsp = +/- 0.6 liter.
So, maybe 0.5 liter of Banana-Jadam per gallon of fertilizer??
(On the one hand, that seems like a lot. And on the other hand, it is free.)

Not quite.

Half a liter, or 17 oz per gallon (or 128 oz) = 17:128 or 1:13.3 (way too strong)

1 L = 34 oz
2 Tbl = 1 oz
3 Tsp = 1Tbl
6 Tsp = 1 oz

so...., 6 tsp/Liter = 1:34 (or 2 Tbl = 1:34)
3 tsp/Liter = 1:68 (or 1 Tbl = 1:68)

Don't go crazy. A little goes a long way.

Ok, great!
Haha, and what is it used for?

A very good (and strong) all purpose fertilizer. Go with more dilution at first so you don't burn you plants.

Well, CBD helps me, but THC also really helps me.
I chose this strain to test your theory that I am going to get more bud from all-THC strains (and then I can mix for THC and CBD in the bowl).
(I just happen to have a lot of CBD oil left over, which I plan to use up with this THC bud.)
Plus they say it has some Kush genetics, and I am wanting some Kush!

You don't necessarily get more bud form all thc strains, but you can get higher thc percentages than you typically can get in mixed thc and cbd strains. So that's why I suggested growing high thc strains and high cbd strains and then mixing and matching in your oils or whatever to get the ratio that you want.

Some of the 1:1 strains are like 10-12% each of thc and cbd. So why not grow two different 20% strains and mix them after the fact yourself? That way you get a higher cannabinoid load and can tailor the strength to whatever is needed. Especially good if you grow for multiple people that all have slightly different needs.