Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

Oh, I forgot!
Here are the seeds, and this is the hatchling factory. I had to lift it off of the heading pad just a little, so it gets warm (not hot).

This one seems a little faded, so she is the one I thought to try to paper towel method with.

Thank you for any and all suggestions and help.
If thing go they way I think they will, I am headed for an outdoor greenhouse environment. (I don't know if that makes a differnce.)

(Oh, and just to mention, I do have some Papa Zeke's Organic Clone and Seedling Booster, if you think I should add a half-touch to the faded one...)

 

[Azimuth]

Hey el,

Yes, you're right, everyone has their own way of doing things. Find what works for you and keep at it. In my experiments I follow the adage of "do more of what's working, and less of what ain't."

I like to soak my seeds no more than a day or two and any that haven't popped go into paper towels until they do. That way I don't have to wonder if they will be viable or not. But everyone is different, that's just how I do it. I've had good success that way and I'm confident in it so it's now my standard practice.

A closed greenhouse environment is one that not a lot of canna growers are familiar with so any challenges you encounter you'll probably have to figure out the answer to yourself.

Once you get the Geoflora nutes you should be pretty well set, even with or without your Subcool soil. Those nutes are supposed to work great even in straight up coco!

I have a bag of each of grow and flower sitting on the shelf in case I run into issues with my diy nutes but, so far at least, they remain unopened.


I did the same thing you are doing with the free seeds. I taught myself how to grow since I really didn't care that much about them. They were not strains I would have ordered myself so I was free to try lots of different things until I found some that worked for me and my environment.

And I still have that strain around which I use to practice with. I agree that using $10 seeds to experiment is too stressful, at least for me.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey el,

Yes, you're right, everyone has their own way of doing things. Find what works for you and keep at it. In my experiments I follow the adage of "do more of what's working, and less of what ain't."

I like to soak my seeds no more than a day or two and any that haven't popped go into paper towels until they do. That way I don't have to wonder if they will be viable or not.

Sí.

But everyone is different, that's just how I do it. I've had good success that way and I'm confident in it so it's now my standard practice.

A closed greenhouse environment is one that not a lot of canna growers are familiar with so any challenges you encounter you'll probably have to figure out the answer to yourself.

Thanks, Azimuth. We will see what I do.
The thing is that we found a really good deal on some property. Only, it is about 10F / maybe 3-4C colder than here, so I will need doors on the greenhouse for sure.
But I have used greenhouses before, so I think I can probably figure it out. You just want to make sure you leave a vent at the top, so you can get good airflow.

Once you get the Geoflora nutes you should be pretty well set, even with or without your Subcool soil. Those nutes are supposed to work great even in straight up coco!

Wow. That is absolutely amazing.
If GeoFlora is that good, I may just import GeoFlora?
(Or I will write to all of the grow shops in Colombia, and ask them repeatedly if they carry it... and then eventually they will.)

I have a bag of each of grow and flower sitting on the shelf in case I run into issues with my diy nutes but, so far at least, they remain unopened.

I hope to learn your Korean fermenting thing, when I can get time.
I am stalled on the Rev, because I need to watch Em's technique and get the basics down for a while before I try to get too fancy.

I did the same thing you are doing with the free seeds. I taught myself how to grow since I really didn't care that much about them. They were not strains I would have ordered myself so I was free to try lots of different things until I found some that worked for me and my environment.

And I still have that strain around which I use to practice with. I agree that using $10 seeds to experiment is too stressful, at least for me.

$10 a seed for a photoperiod that grow up good and strong is nothing.
But $10 for autos and you have to replace them all the time, is a lot.

That said, some of my new regular auto 1:1 cbd seeds came in, and I want to make sure I have my watering and basics down before I plant them.

 

[Azimuth]

Wow. That is absolutely amazing.
If GeoFlora is that good, I may just import GeoFlora?
(Or I will write to all of the grow shops in Colombia, and ask them repeatedly if they carry it... and then eventually they will.)

Lots of great results posted in the various Giel Scout Cookies Comparative grows so it seems to be all you'd need. I see them listed on Amazon, can you not get them through there?

 

[CBDMed]

Well, the thing is, Amazon gives comparatively great shipping rates, but not everything on Amazon ships to Colombia.
I can send it through my Texas reshipper (and I am sending one bag of Veg and one bag of Bloom through them), but the shipping costs three times as much, and that is by USPS, which takes maybe two months. (You can get it here faster, but it costs even more.)

But then, Subcool isn't free, either.
I would be great to figure out which is more cost effective, Subcool's or GeoFlora.
But then, a matching set of GeoFlora bags probably has a much smaller footprint than 2-3/4 garbage cans full of Subcool's (so it is not just cost, it is also space?).

 

[CBDMed]

I am a little worried about my Pink Kush. She does not look so good.

Here is her sister. She looks pretty good (if a little small, because I have unintentionally been starving her).
(At least, she looks normal...)

Any ideas what her problem might be?

And do I just try to feed her, and nurse her back to health?

 

[Azimuth]

I am a little worried about my Pink Kush. She does not look so good.

Are you overwatering again?

 

[CBDMed]

I sincerely hope not.
I have been trying to follow Em's instructions on watering as closely as I can.

As far as I can tell, there have been four problems that affect Little Miss K.
I want to identify the problem areas, so I can resolve the problems.


1. The soil was packed way too tight. (I cannot correct that on this grow. I can only correct it on the next grow.)

2. I was feeding them the wrong thing (rooting formula instead of grow formula), but I hope I have resolved that.

3. If I recall correctly, you asked me one time if I thought there was any possibility of stunting because of the cold, and I said no, because it never gets below 55F, and because they are part Ruderalis (so they just have to deal with it).
I think that was ignorant.
I think it can get colder than 55F here. Plus, I think we had a cold patch when the Sweet Nurse Autos and the Pink Kush were still in their Coty's.
They have some Ruderalis, but they are not all Ruderalis, so perhaps I did acidentally stunt them???

4. I ran out of plastic, but the greenhouse is sealed up a lot better than it was.
We are almost entering summer, but with the doors on the greenhouse at night, I think it will not stunt any longer. Even thought there is a big gap in one, with the doors it does not get as cold in there at night.
The coldest I have seen with the doors on was 62F.
Once I get the plastic and seal the one door, it probably won't get below 65F (assuming).

So, my plan is:
1. I will pack my own soil for future grows, mixing in 10% WC.
2. I will feed them Veg nutes for the first month, and Bloom after that.
3. I have doors on the greenhouse now, and hope to have plastic to finish sealing the one door tomorrow (or at least by the day after).
So hopefully it will not get cold again.

I am seriously eyeballing the upstairs bathroom for an indoor grow site.
I could do a 4' x 4' grow space easy.
I would need a few more fans, but easy.
But we lose power here so much... and then you have to carry them all outside into the shade, until you get power back, and I am not really set up for it.
But I am thinking about it a lot.
At the very least it would give me a data point to compare how inside grows do vs. outside grows.

An inside grow should have several advantages.
One, you can power lights 20x4, so it has more time to grow.
Two, it stays warmer, so there should be no danger of stunting.
Three, it is probably easier to limit pests.
So I am chewing on it.

 

[Azimuth]

So, my plan is:
1. I will pack my own soil for future grows, mixing in 10% WC.

The worm castings won't do much for dense soil other than make it worse. For aeration and drainage you want something like perlite, pumice, rice hulls, sand, etc.

The worm castings themselves are kind of dense. Really good for your plants, but dense.

 

[CBDMed]

Thanks.
What I am trying not to have to say is that my assistant packed the last batch of Solo cups, and she packed them wayyy too tight.
I think one of the problems is that my assistant packed the soil in the Solo cups wayyy to tight.

Just to say it, she is a very good assistant with most things.
With administrative and logistical tasks she works very hard, but she has a lot of trauma from her past, and zero coordination in physical tasks [like packing Solo cups].
Frankly, she is a klutz, but she is a good assistant, and a super nice person, and I try to be as good to her as I can.

So, I want to get her seriuosly stoned, to help her get in touch with her body---and she wants to get stoned, too, but first I have to grow some crops. (And so far, I am not doing so good....)

Long story short, in the future I will pack my own Solo cups, loosely (normally), with 10% WC mixed in.
I am hoping to ask for help when it comes time to recondition the soil.

Sorry if that was TMI.
Did I answer your questions?

 

[CBDMed]

I think the reason I don't just grow indoors is that it would be really convenient to figure out how to grow outdoors, so I am sticking with it.
And I looked it up, stunting is supposed to happen around 40F, and there is no way it gets that cold here (although I want to fix up the greenhouse anyway).
So for those Solo cups, maybe the soil is overpacked (compressed), and I did not feed them?
If so, then feeding should at least help some.
We should know soon.

And finishing the greenhouse door should keep the plants warmer at night.

 

[Azimuth]

You could try adding some worms to the cups. Their tunneling around would help loosen things up.

 

[CBDMed]

You could try adding some worms to the cups. Their tunneling around would help losses things up.

Ok, good idea. Please let me see if I can find some.
And they will have enough food to eat?
(Or do I feed them??)

Freebie Seed #1 (King Super Glue Auto #1), going in. (Sorry the photo is fuzzy.)
I pre-wet the top of the soil just a little, so it would not dry out, and I will try to keep the top of the soil moist.
That root looks good to me.

I back-filled the divot so the seed head is about 1/4" down from the top.
If I had not sprouted it first, I would have put it about 1/2" down (maybe 3/4" at the most[(because in regular gardening they always say to bury seeds at about 3x their width].)
Does that seem right?
And do you have any suggestions for improvement?

My only question is, if @Emilya puts GeoFlora about three inches down in her cup, is that about how long the roots may be, when the first real leaf appears? Or what is her strategy behind three inches?

If these cups work out, then I will probably feel confident closing this thread, and trying with some $10 seeds.
This girl is 65% sativa, so that should be a nice change of pace.
I can take CBD drops on the side.

 

[Emilya Green]

Or what is her strategy behind three inches?

Just aiming for about half way down... no real strategy. Its not like the microbes stay in one place after all.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, good idea. Please let me see if I can find some.
And they will have enough food to eat?
(Or do I feed them??)

They will feed on the organic matter that is breaking down in the soil, or more accurately on the microbes that are breaking that stuff down. No need to feed them separately.

I back-filled the divot so the seed head is about 1/4" down from the top.
If I had not sprouted it first, I would have put it about 1/2" down (maybe 3/4" at the most[(because in regular gardening they always say to bury seeds at about 3x their width].)
Does that seem right?
And do you have any suggestions for improvement?

I don't bury them all that deep but I do think they benefit from having some soil above them to help lever off the seed coat. When I buy them too shallow I've had more issues of "helmet head" where I have to help remove the seed coat. But too deep can be an issue as well. So 1/4 to 1/2 inch is all I gnerally do.

My only question is, if @Emilya puts GeoFlora about three inches down in her cup, is that about how long the roots may be, when the first real leaf appears?

By using the clear cups you will learn how the roots work, but generally they send a tap root straight to the bottom and then other roots fill in from there.

Emilya's layer of nutrients is there for the roots to find as they go exploring. And, its probably not a single layer. Might be a pocket of nutes or well mixed in with other soil at that depth, you'd have to ask her about that. But I wouldn't want to have a single layer of nutrients that might act as a barrier if the roots don't like it for some reason.

I know she's been a fan of The Rev who advocates for spikes of nutrients down into the soil, but those are individual columns that the roots can navigate around if they don't like the offering.

 

[CBDMed]

They will feed on the organic matter that is breaking down in the soil, or more accurately on the microbes that are breaking that stuff down. No need to feed them separately.

Great news.

I don't bury them all that deep but I do think they benefit from having some soil above them to help lever off the seed coat. When I buy them too shallow I've had more issues of "helmet head" where I have to help remove the seed coat. But too deep can be an issue as well. So 1/4 to 1/2 inch is all I gnerally do.

It makes sense.
And I have had girlies with combat boots, and "helmet head", and I was able to take the helmet off, no problem, so I don't anticipate too many difficulties.
I had one get really long (like 1") overnight, and I buried him 1/2" deep, and he never came up, so I had to go rescue him.
So for that, if the tail is maybe 1/4" and looks vigorous I will plant it maybe 1/2" deep (because I expect it to grow), but not more than that.
I would rather deal with helmet head (that I know how to take care of) than to have to go digging.

By using the clear cups you will learn how the roots work, but generally they send a tap root straight to the bottom and then other roots fill in from there.

Ahh, ok. that is good to know.

Emilya's layer of nutrients is there for the roots to find as they go exploring. And, its probably not a single layer. Might be a pocket of nutes or well mixed in with other soil at that depth, you'd have to ask her about that.

Ahh, that could be good. Just mix it real good in the lower 1/2 of the cup or planter, like Subcool's is mixed into soil?
Only, instead of Subcool's, it would be Emcool's (or "GeoFloraCool's")?
That would save a lot of time and space composting the soil. Just mix it right in????

And if I may ask, how does it compare cost-wise to Subcool's, for powering a grow?
My costs here are very different, so I would have to calculate costs differently, but it could be helpful to know how many plant-grows you could power for x amount of dollars with Subcool's, and how many plant grows you could power for x amount of dollars with GeoFlora.
I have some on the way, so I can do my own experiments in time (assuming a lot of things), but if you have an idea about cost comparisons, that would be really great to know.

But I wouldn't want to have a single layer of nutrients that might act as a barrier if the roots don't like it for some reason.

Good point.

I know she's been a fan of The Rev who advocates for spikes of nutrients down into the soil, but those are individual columns that the roots can navigate around if they don't like the offering.

Good to know.
I had to put down the Rev at least until I can nail my watering and greenhouse techniques (first things first), but it seems good to know.

The CalMag is supposed to come this afternoon, and not a moment too soon, because I would have watered the seven Sweet Nurse Autos this morning, if the CalMag had been here.
They look pretty much like they did before.
So, do I give them a normal amount of CalMag? Or do I double up on this first watering?

On another thread they said to use grow until you begin to see pistils, and then switch to bloom. But I might mix 50/50 until the nitrogen deficiency goes away.
So, since these plants are starving for nutrients in the exact same soil in which the Delicious Candy Auto is doing good, following the same fertilization, then is it logical to conclude that the SNAs are hungrier than the Delicious Candy Auto--so I should give them some extra?

One comment is that the roots on the SNAs don't seem real strong, which is kind of surprising, when you consider that I was using a rooting fertilizer (unless that particular fertilizer is no good).

Another alternative is, perhaps the cold really did stunt the seven Sweet Nurse Autos, and then completely stunted three more plants (that I pulled the plug on)?
And maybe also stunted the Pink Kush?
I think we should know more after I water the SNAs with CalMag. If that and a stiff drink of Grow mixed with Bloom does not help her, then I might conclude that it was the cold (from not having doors on the greenhouse), although I would be surprised, because I thought autos tend to do well in cold?
Or do only certain varieties of autos do well in cold?

I will say that the last fertilizing made a big difference for the Delicious Candy Auto, and the I think also for the tiny LSD Autos, even without the CalMag.
I don't know why I did not see similar improvement with the seven Sweet Nurse Autos, unless they are cold stunted, or unless a lack of calcium is holding them back?

This is the Delicious Candy (DC), which is in the same exact soil as the seven SNAs.
I pinned her sideways, and tried to take any leaf that was blocking a cola site.
She seems to have responded very well to the last round of fertilizer, and also the layer of WC.

Suggestions or comments for improvement would be appreciated.

I am eager to see how these new freebie seeds work.
If they grow well with a proper soil pack, 10% worm castings, proper CalMag and fertilizer, and with the doors on the greenhouse at night, then I will feel safe venturing back into $10-a-seed territory.

 

[CBDMed]

Just aiming for about half way down... no real strategy. Its not like the microbes stay in one place after all.

Thank you!
I need to learn more about microbes, and how they work.
Is the Rev the best source for that?

 

[Emilya Green]

Thank you!
I need to learn more about microbes, and how they work.
Is the Rev the best source for that?

Rev was a good source for me, but he really didn't get down into the specifics of which microbes did what... he just came up with a practical way to supply the correct microbes and to make a tea specifically for different periods of the grow. I was reading several other works at the time, trying to understand organic gardening, but there was something about his book that explained things in a way that made sense to me, and it was only after reading True Living Organics that I finally felt comfortable in making my own move away from synthetics. I realized after reading that book that I was making it too hard and that I was never going to understand the microbes to the point of being able to recognize them under a microscope, but that I knew enough to get started. After brewing a few of my own teas things started to make a lot more sense and organic gardening turned out not to be as complicated as I ha first thought it was.

 

[Azimuth]

And if I may ask, how does it compare cost-wise to Subcool's, for powering a grow?
My costs here are very different, so I would have to calculate costs differently, but it could be helpful to know how many plant-grows you could power for x amount of dollars with Subcool's, and how many plant grows you could power for x amount of dollars with GeoFlora.
I have some on the way, so I can do my own experiments in time (assuming a lot of things), but if you have an idea about cost comparisons, that would be really great to know.

No idea. I've never even seen a recipe for his soil so don't know what the input costs would be, and my Geoflora remains unopened so don't know how many grows you could get.

So, do I give them a normal amount of CalMag? Or do I double up on this first watering?

No, no doubling up on anything. If anything you go light your first time with a new nute.

One comment is that the roots on the SNAs don't seem real strong, which is kind of surprising, when you consider that I was using a rooting fertilizer (unless that particular fertilizer is no good).

I don't know, you have a ton of root tips in that cup and that's how they feed so I would imagine once you give them some food that they'll take off.

although I would be surprised, because I thought autos tend to do well in cold?
Or do only certain varieties of autos do well in cold?

No idea. Never grown autos.

 

[CBDMed]

Rev was a good source for me, but he really didn't get down into the specifics of which microbes did what... he just came up with a practical way to supply the correct microbes and to make a tea specifically for different periods of the grow. I was reading several other works at the time, trying to understand organic gardening, but there was something about his book that explained things in a way that made sense to me, and it was only after reading True Living Organics that I finally felt comfortable in making my own move away from synthetics. I realized after reading that book that I was making it too hard and that I was never going to understand the microbes to the point of being able to recognize them under a microscope, but that I knew enough to get started. After brewing a few of my own teas things started to make a lot more sense and organic gardening turned out not to be as complicated as I ha first thought it was.

Great! I can't wait to get time to read it!