Munki's Ebb n Flow 3 x 3 SCROG 400W HPS Grow

Good morning. I did have some issues to share. First off, whoever labels the volume of these coolers is a lying liar that lies! I ASSUMED they were telling the truth and put in 15 gallons worth of nutes but could only get in about 12 1/2 to 13 gallons into there before the water level got within an inch of the holes I drilled. So the nutes will be a bit hot for now.

Speaking of the nutes, this is what my current mix is supposed to be. GH nutrients per gallon, 2G, 8M, 16B with 2KB (KoolBloom), 1 Floralicious+, and 10 FloraBlend. The FloraBlend is not showing on any of GH's feeding charts so I wonder if they are phasing it out. Pretty expensive for a tea but I bought it together as a kit. Anyways, this is how I will fill the next reservoir as well, then I will have finished the Grow and I will be more on the Lucas Formula.

PPM for this mix which is a bit concentrated came out to 1310 PPM (@.5) after 7ml pH up (15% KOH) and a pH of 5.3. I find the solution's pH rises pretty quickly the first day so I just needed to get it close to 5.5. I will be around 6.0 within a few days.

The other major issue I face is how to get that damn cooler in and out of the tent. The tent's entrance has a lower lip about 6 inches high so I have to lift the rez and lower it into place. Really hard to do with the screen in place. I had to set it in longways then rotate it into position. Bumped the screen several times doing it. Not a problem this time but will be once I have bugs growing into the screen. What I will try to find will be some stands that the rez can sit on so I can just slide the rez into place while keeping it level. The first time I just tried to lower one end into place. Bad idea. Nutirents came out the side and onto the floor. Oh, and that thing is frickin' heavy when full. The handles barely can handle the water weight. So, I'll be putting on my thinking cap again.
 
lol, munki.

water is about 8 lbs/gal so your res is like 100 lbs full. . . so unless you've been hitting the gym lately, not so easy to carry around and position.

you might consider leaving your res outside of your tent, if your not worried about stealth issues. it would be easier to move around, and there would be secondary benefits of easy access to check it, top it off, and monitor it easier, and also it would help keep the water temp down if thats an issue. if you did this, you could just run all your lines through a port in your tent. i like this option the best if you have the room.

or you could use the method that i use to drain my res, to both fill and drain yours. i just hook up a long section of plastic tubing to my powerhead (pump) and run it into my bath tub and turn it on. this empties 95% of it and the remaining water is less than a gallon so it's light enough for me to easily pull out of there. you could easily use your circulation pump to empty it. but also if you premixed you nutes in a bin, you could use a pump to transfer it into your cool res. I found that this is the easiest way for me. actually the way you made you res (which is really cool btw) the level indicator on the side is already the lowest point in the res, so if you hooked up a pump inline with that hose, you could drain your res 100%. in fact I'm thinking of buying a cooler when i get back, because of the insulator properties, and i have an extra pump, and i think it could make it easier for me to drain.

one thing i am confused on, you added your nutes and then the water??? how does that work?, i would never add water to nutes, only nutes to water. but 1300's ppm doesn't seem to bad at your stage, the roots must be developed nicely by now. I like to run my nutes hot too, but i inject co2. actually at 500 factor, that mans your EC is 2.6 that is kind hot. maybe you should drain out a gallon or two and add pure water.

one last thing, did you have to splice the cords to your pumps to thread them in the cooler? it looks very professional that way, very nice. ive never done a flood and drain bucket before, how does the bucket empty with the return line so high on the pot?

the plant looks healthy, whatever your doing so keep up the good work my friend.
WOF!
 
WheeloFortune said:
lol, munki.

water is about 8 lbs/gal so your res is like 100 lbs full. . . so unless you've been hitting the gym lately, not so easy to carry around and position.

you might consider leaving your res outside of your tent, if your not worried about stealth issues. it would be easier to move around, and there would be secondary benefits of easy access to check it, top it off, and monitor it easier, and also it would help keep the water temp down if thats an issue. if you did this, you could just run all your lines through a port in your tent. i like this option the best if you have the room.

or you could use the method that i use to drain my res, to both fill and drain yours. i just hook up a long section of plastic tubing to my powerhead (pump) and run it into my bath tub and turn it on. this empties 95% of it and the remaining water is less than a gallon so it's light enough for me to easily pull out of there. you could easily use your circulation pump to empty it. but also if you premixed you nutes in a bin, you could use a pump to transfer it into your cool res. I found that this is the easiest way for me. actually the way you made you res (which is really cool btw) the level indicator on the side is already the lowest point in the res, so if you hooked up a pump inline with that hose, you could drain your res 100%. in fact I'm thinking of buying a cooler when i get back, because of the insulator properties, and i have an extra pump, and i think it could make it easier for me to drain.

one thing i am confused on, you added your nutes and then the water??? how does that work?, i would never add water to nutes, only nutes to water. but 1300's ppm doesn't seem to bad at your stage, the roots must be developed nicely by now. I like to run my nutes hot too, but i inject co2. actually at 500 factor, that mans your EC is 2.6 that is kind hot. maybe you should drain out a gallon or two and add pure water.

one last thing, did you have to splice the cords to your pumps to thread them in the cooler? it looks very professional that way, very nice. ive never done a flood and drain bucket before, how does the bucket empty with the return line so high on the pot?

the plant looks healthy, whatever your doing so keep up the good work my friend.
WOF!
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Heh. When I went to bed, there were a couple of points on my right arm (front shoulder and upper part of my forearm) that felt strained. I won't be refilling the rez by this old method for sure.

Leaving the rez outside the tent is an idea but introduces an issue not easily solved for me. Since this is an ebb and flow config, I need gravity to take the overflow back to the reservoir. That line must always have a gentle slope down so I cannot have it go higher through the tent and even having a low point mid way in the line messes it up. The flood tray bucket will overtake the return line if air cannot pass back up the line from the rez. Maybe a larger diameter return line would alleviate this but I would still have fluid collected in the tube which isn't good in my book. I would have to actively return the fluid somehow.

Draining the rez could be accomplished with a pump. The little ones I have would take some time so I would need to get a bigger sump pump for the job. As for refilling, I was thinking of using the sight glass tube on the side and putting a funnel on it that is also connected to a stand of some sort. Then, I could add the solution via that tube.

About how I mix the nutes, I can see how you mistook what I typed. What I did was first pour in my first 5 gallons of water. I put in my dose of the Micro component. Then, I poured about a gallon of water from my second water jug into the rez to make some room in the jug. In there, I added the Grow, Bloom, and Kool Bloom. With that diluted, those 4 gallons were added. Finally, I added the Floralicious plus and FloraBlend tea to the rez and added water to the top.

I know the EC seems high but the organics I'm adding skew the dissolved solids numbers. My last mix was at 1490 and I did not see systemic nutrient burn on the plant leaves. This mix has a bit different component mix as I am preparing for flower but it will essentially be my staple mix. My major nutrient profile that I'm shooting for is 100N-100P-200K-60Mg. This has been shown to work well in all stages except when plants are seedlings or cuttings. If I just did the Lucas formula at 0G, 7.5M, 15B, the profile would calculate to 122N-99P-171K-68Mg. By my adding a small amount of grow this time at 2ml/gal, I boost the numbers by 11N-3P-29K-3Mg. Note how grow isn't much N but instead highest in K and with this small boost, gets the profile close to ideal. I of course further bumped the numbers higher with Kool Bloom (0-10-10) but only a small amount was added this time. Want to use what I have.

The electrical cords were cut by the plugs, cords run through the holes and new plugs were attached to the ends. You can buy these plugs for a few dollars at home depot. The copper strands are secured to screw posts in the plug and a sheath is brought up to cover the wires and screwed on. I can take a picture of it but you can easily find them in the electrical section.
 
Just thought you all would like to know.....

CLICK

goes

the

switch!

We are going 12/12! Day starts at 8PM. :cheertwo:

May we all prepare for the big S T R E T C H ! Pics soon to follow. :yummy:
 
Yeah I'm excited. I figure most of my work will happen in the next few weeks with the rest of the grow watching out for problems. We shall see over the next few months. <fingers crossed>

I feel like I'm kind of like I setting off a "plant bomb". :yikes: Let's see the explosive growth. I'll trim out the underside of the screen once the buds all make themselves known.
 
for draining, instead of a submersible pump, if you got an inline, you could run it off the outside tube hooked up to the old drain, then it would empty all the way.

man i guess if you have some backpressure from the pump, the siphon would be touchy, but usually as long as the end is lower, the tube could go to the top of your tent and back down and still siphon fine.

looking forward to the stretch period.
keep us posted munk.
 
WheeloFortune said:
for draining, instead of a submersible pump, if you got an inline, you could run it off the outside tube hooked up to the old drain, then it would empty all the way.

man i guess if you have some backpressure from the pump, the siphon would be touchy, but usually as long as the end is lower, the tube could go to the top of your tent and back down and still siphon fine.

looking forward to the stretch period.
keep us posted munk.
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The feeding tube will work like that just fine but the overflow line that maintains the high water mark won't do that. It needs to just have a consistent downward slope so air can run back up the line. It doesn't get much momentum so it does not flow freely enough without that air in the return line.
 
Not very exciting pics, but they can establish where I was at the start of flowering here on Day 46, August 5th.

08-05-09_1.JPG


08-05-09_2.JPG


08-05-09_3.JPG
 
I'm trying to understand a little better how this ebb and flow system works. What does the bigger tube do? Is that your fill or drain? Do both fill and drain have pumps on them? Separate pumps? Also, do the tubes run into your grow bucket and go to the bottom? Or does the fill come out at the top? And the drain collects from the bottom? Thanks for any clarification. I am thinking of giving it a shot. Somebody had a PVC ebb and flow schematic up but I can't find the thread anymore.
 
stully said:
I'm trying to understand a little better how this ebb and flow system works. What does the bigger tube do? Is that your fill or drain? Do both fill and drain have pumps on them? Separate pumps? Also, do the tubes run into your grow bucket and go to the bottom? Or does the fill come out at the top? And the drain collects from the bottom? Thanks for any clarification. I am thinking of giving it a shot. Somebody had a PVC ebb and flow schematic up but I can't find the thread anymore.
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I can't directly link you to the design, but if you Google "tron2hydro", your questions will be answered. There is one thing in the design that I would improve. I would put the fill line hole higher than the overflow tube. That way, there is no chance for water to leak out of that hole punched for the fill line as the high water mark would still be below that breach.
 
I find it hard to believe that the cooler rez is a new idea but innovation is a wonderful thing. :thankyou:
 
I think that one bucket is going to do a pretty good job filling that screen, Very fun to watch great job and cant wait to see those flowers popping through those little holes, Great Job Again.
 
sonzor said:
Very fun to watch great job and cant wait to see those flowers popping through those little holes, Great Job Again.
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Oh, I'm excited to see how the growth explodes. Still 5 1/2 hours of darkness left in their first 12 dark period.
 
Hopefully you'll be able to fill your screen somewhat during the flowering stretch. Just a wild-assed guess based on the looks of your plants, I'd guess about 25 days' worth coming.
 
TorturedSoul said:
Hopefully you'll be able to fill your screen somewhat during the flowering stretch. Just a wild-assed guess based on the looks of your plants, I'd guess about 25 days' worth coming.
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Heh. Alright, I got you down for 25 days of stretch. If I use the 40/60 rule of flowering, 25 days would be 40 percent of the total expected flower time of the strain making estimated completion at 63 days flowering. Hmmm, 9 weeks would seem to be a bit quick for my estimation given overall leaf characteristics but it is entirely possible.
 
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