Mother of Berries, M.O.B. Maine Strain

[WeedMonkey]

Morning!

Clones that I cut 3 days ago.

Left = cherry pie

Right = Skunk Kush

 

[WeedMonkey]

I got to thinking about what Yeti said so before I plugged clones in I added clonex to water and pre-watered the solo cups do they would be filled with rooting horizons to simulate the rapid rooter method he uses and of course they were dipped in clonex and all of that.

 

[TheGreenYeti]

Best of luck bud!

 

[Skybound]

How's things?

 

[WeedMonkey]

It’s going. Haven’t had much time to tend to anything. Consequently, clones didn’t make it and I also admit that part of that was me not getting the complete setup I needed (dome, rooters, etc.)!

After the 9th (Nov) I’ll have more time to focus on plants and commit to their needs and do things more appropriately.

I had topped the smaller plants and gently squeezed/pinched the stems under the tops of the big plants to experiment with that. Topping seems to have worked well, it’s my understanding not to generally go beyond 4 before problems set in (true?).

I’m considering moving the experimental set of plants elsewhere and getting started on a new complete grow with many more plants. I found a legal way to do it according to Maine law and confirmed with my state authority, ready to go and very excited. I’ve reread many of the messages to really and I mean really absorb everything I’ve been told and I’m going to keep the new plants in a solo cup for root drenching and all that, use smaller pots, etc.

I have something like 26 seeds germinating as we speak. Some are “skunks” others are orange cream, etc. with the time I’ll be able to focus on them and tend to each plant.

Also, after the 9th (maybe a week or so) I’ll start using the entire list Yeti sent me a while ago to begin cob assembly.

In other unrelated and fun news I got some stuff I’ve never heard of before called “Grape Ox” that they said they’ve been getting mad reviews and everyone loves it I’m hoping it lives up to the hype.

 

[Skybound]

I had topped the smaller plants and gently squeezed/pinched the stems under the tops of the big plants to experiment with that. Topping seems to have worked well, it’s my understanding not to generally go beyond 4 before problems set in (true?).

There's a couple ways this question can be interpreted, 1) 4 toppings per session or, 2) 4 toppings total, and I can verify for certain that a healthy plant can handle more than 4 total. The Cheese I stuck in bloom on the 24th I believe has about 20 main tops. I can't say that I've ever practiced limitting the amount of tops I cut per session, but I just generally access the health of the plant I'll be cutting, consider what I've done to it already and what I still need to get done to it before sending it off to bloom, and that generally dictates (for me) what I feel needs to be done in a given session. For starters, I'm a strong proponent of using beneficial bacteria, twice weekly with my compost tea. This always ensures I have very healthy roots which translate to healthier plants above and because of this knowledge, I don't feel as constrained in terms of what I can get done in a session. Generally speaking though, I am putting forth much more effort and attention into my veg game than I've done in past years. IMO, Veg is where all the magic happens in terms of creating a superb candidate for bloom. So I try to get all my tops split out, but also I keep the lower branches removed and most of the inners as well, so when she's near the end of stretch in bloom down the road, I won't have to remove nearly as much which translates to less stress, quicker recovery and better bud building.

In terms of COBs, if you didn't invest anything yet, I have to say from personal experience that I'd like to walk back past comments on the subject (re:COBs vs Panels) because I just took a harvest from a plant that I had under a fixture that I had removed 2 of the 6 COBs (OG Kush) and she only gave me 6 measly ass ounces. Because I have such beefy drivers, I can't really push the COBs too hard or the tops will all foxtail and not gain weight, but because I under drove the fixture, the buds generally looked much better, but still there were a lot less and I couldn't help but wish I had panels. Aside from the fact that I'm about $1500 invested into COBs, I can't really change that, but I can share my experience. With COBs, in my very limited experience, if I drive them hard, I'll need to ensure I keep near 2 feet of clearance between the canopy and the light which is flat out not possible for me, and is the primary reason I wish I had panels. I bet Yeti can let his tops get much closer to his panel than I can my tops to the COBs. I put the 2 back into the fixture and have a new strain in there, but LESSONS LEARNED!

 

[TheGreenYeti]

It’s going. Haven’t had much time to tend to anything. Consequently, clones didn’t make it and I also admit that part of that was me not getting the complete setup I needed (dome, rooters, etc.)!

After the 9th (Nov) I’ll have more time to focus on plants and commit to their needs and do things more appropriately.

I had topped the smaller plants and gently squeezed/pinched the stems under the tops of the big plants to experiment with that. Topping seems to have worked well, it’s my understanding not to generally go beyond 4 before problems set in (true?).

I’m considering moving the experimental set of plants elsewhere and getting started on a new complete grow with many more plants. I found a legal way to do it according to Maine law and confirmed with my state authority, ready to go and very excited. I’ve reread many of the messages to really and I mean really absorb everything I’ve been told and I’m going to keep the new plants in a solo cup for root drenching and all that, use smaller pots, etc.

I have something like 26 seeds germinating as we speak. Some are “skunks” others are orange cream, etc. with the time I’ll be able to focus on them and tend to each plant.

Also, after the 9th (maybe a week or so) I’ll start using the entire list Yeti sent me a while ago to begin cob assembly.

In other unrelated and fun news I got some stuff I’ve never heard of before called “Grape Ox” that they said they’ve been getting mad reviews and everyone loves it I’m hoping it lives up to the hype.

I am glad top hear things are moving along. Bummer about the clones not making it but at least you are able to start more seeds. Are you going to be doing a large rec grow in order to comply with laws or did you find a way to do a personal grow without issues? Your plants are looking healthy over all!

@Skybound I have had colas get within inches onf the panels. They do not like to be that close. Driven as hard as they can eb with my set up 8-18 inches away seems to be best. i have run as close as 6 inches without catastrophe striking.

 

[Skybound]

@Skybound I have had colas get within inches onf the panels. They do not like to be that close. Driven as hard as they can eb with my set up 8-18 inches away seems to be best. i have run as close as 6 inches without catastrophe striking.

I would've figured with your diodes dispersed the way they are that you'd be able to encroach on the panel more so. I mean don't get me wrong, LEDs are bright as shit, so getting to close to any of them would likely burn some leaf, but the way COB LEDs have the little individual diodes all smashed together, the intensity is strong and getting close can get catastrophic quick. I don't even use ratchet hangers anymore, just hang the fixture right to the ceiling and just drive hard till the branches get too close then dial the intensity back the closer the tops get. Most cases I'm bending the tops over anyways. I hope this Cheese doesn't stretch like the Kush does.

 

[TheGreenYeti]

I would've figured with your diodes dispersed the way they are that you'd be able to encroach on the panel more so. I mean don't get me wrong, LEDs are bright as shit, so getting to close to any of them would likely burn some leaf, but the way COB LEDs have the little individual diodes all smashed together, the intensity is strong and getting close can get catastrophic quick. I don't even use ratchet hangers anymore, just hang the fixture right to the ceiling and just drive hard till the branches get too close then dial the intensity back the closer the tops get. Most cases I'm bending the tops over anyways. I hope this Cheese doesn't stretch like the Kush does.

They are super intense every spread out. I have lowers on some strains that are denser than the tops of most strains under my HPS or CMH set ups. They also put off some heat. I keep them all the way at the top of my 7 foot tent and lowers that are maybe 6 inches above the soil line still chunk up!

 

[WeedMonkey]

Morning guys,

@TheGreenYeti as far as new grow goes. Glad I’m able to get a new one going because as I mentioned previously this round was about experimenting. According to state law I can have an unlimited number of seedlings, up to 12 immature female plants and 6 mature flowering plants at any one time. This essentially allows for a perpetual grow. . I’m allowed to have up to 8 pounds of dried prepared marijuana on reserve and trying to reach that goal requires more compliance with security and all of that so I bought a large 80lb safe that I’m going to bolt to the floor as I’m required to implement features that will prevent theft and prevent minors from accessing the area (a given anyway). Going to try and really do this right.

The plants look better because I’ve kept notes to a minimum. It’s filled with what is now heavily composted material so the nutes I was given was causing burns from hell.

I have provided a screen shot below.

@Skybound the compact array of light spectrum is what makes it so appealing and partially why I initially started on the cheap LEDs which seemed to take forever for the plants to grow albeit partly was probably from my premature transplanting and all of that.

Both: I would like to use fermentation based C02 and seal up the tent to use it. I know it’s not the most ideal thing to do but it’s an uphill battle to get a tank going here so that will have to do. I’ve tried drip based C02 using large quantities of baking soda and vinegar in small settings and it’s really for the birds. Any advice here would be helpful.

 

[Skybound]

I tried fermenting CO2 as well, but it only produces negligible amounts. However, if you're into microbrewing, then it might be worth the added effort, but that aside, I'd not waste my time. If you can exchange your room air every 5 minutes or so, that will bring in enough ambient CO2 from the air. Assuming all other factors are near ideal, you'll still enjoy vigorous growth, and the faster and more robust you can grow the root zones, the better and faster the plants above will respond. It's great that you started next round in small pots. I'd stay there until root bound and when feeding, drench the hell out of them, but then also let the media "approach" the dry side of the spectrum. This will encourage roots to search for more water and populate the media more, and when the roots circle the bottom, you'll know that they first checked everywhere else.

 

[WeedMonkey]

I will definitely do the drenching and watch for moisture levels, etc. do you know whether or not fox farms “wholly mackerel” root drench is worth using? It’s supposed to be kinda stinky but everyone says it works well. Idk if with all the stuff in the soil now it would be overkill. I’ve had stuff breaking down in soil for more than a year and don’t want to screw anything up more than I have in the past. My first grow of MOB with CFLs and I had meaningful thick popcorn buds, etc. would be great to duplicate again.

If fermentation is worthless I’ll probably just abandon the c02 concept but I do have fresh air coming into the tent regularly.

Now when you say “approach” drying would you say that the medium should be maybe 75% in small cups or more before watering? On the note of solo cups I’ve read in many different places and forums that the ideal time to leave in a cup is 2-4 weeks depending on root development do you agree with this? I can send links in pm (though I’m sure you seen them or are experienced enough (both of you) to know what I’m talking about).

My interest in topping is that according to what I understand from readings, dispensary handouts and so on the calyx(s) have the most THC so in theory I would think that by maximizing my colas I would maximize the number of calyx I can collect and store separately so I know what my most potent supply is to everything else. I believe I have read that lower parts of the plant can also be more potent depending on strain and conditions, etc.

Last thing: I wanted an opinion on an interesting article I read called “weed strains are mostly bullshit” and was wondering if you guys thought there was any validity to it. The content makes sense but then my own experiences appear to contradict it. Would really love to hear what you guys think

Are Weed Strains Really That Different or Mostly Bullshit?

 

[WeedMonkey]

This is the handout I got from my dispensary and my source about Calyx

 

[Skybound]

I will definitely do the drenching and watch for moisture levels, etc. do you know whether or not fox farms “wholly mackerel” root drench is worth using? It’s supposed to be kinda stinky but everyone says it works well. Idk if with all the stuff in the soil now it would be overkill. I’ve had stuff breaking down in soil for more than a year and don’t want to screw anything up more than I have in the past. My first grow of MOB with CFLs and I had meaningful thick popcorn buds, etc. would be great to duplicate again.
I have very little experience with organics so I can only speculate with my hydro experience. To my knowledge, organics keep a nice supply of elements that need to be broken down with fungi and fermentation to make those elements able to be leached up by the roots, so if I were to go down that road, I would try to research what the various levels are in the soil, and ensure that whatever else I add will not disrupt the bacteria and fungi colonies as those are needed to convert the elements to nutes.

If fermentation is worthless I’ll probably just abandon the c02 concept but I do have fresh air coming into the tent regularly.

Now when you say “approach” drying would you say that the medium should be maybe 75% in small cups or more before watering? On the note of solo cups I’ve read in many different places and forums that the ideal time to leave in a cup is 2-4 weeks depending on root development do you agree with this? I can send links in pm (though I’m sure you seen them or are experienced enough (both of you) to know what I’m talking about).
I'd get a solo cup and fill it with just the soil, as dry as I'd want it to be on the dry side and pick it up a few times so my hand can acknowledge the weight and use that as my reference. Then after drenching, you can better gauge when to water/feed. It's a very imperfect and screwy process as the dryness encourages root growth, yet the wetness encourages plant growth and the struggle is trying to capture the benefits of both while mitigating the liabilities of both. In hydro, we want our roots to get wet and stay wet as much as possible, yet the roots need a lot of O2 as well so if the media is too wet, the roots won't breathe well so we must augment our process as needed to achieve the outcomes we seek. In soil, the media is nowhere near as airy so less drenching is needed or wanted, but you still need to develop the understanding of how often (generally) wetting is needed.

My interest in topping is that according to what I understand from readings, dispensary handouts and so on the calyx(s) have the most THC so in theory I would think that by maximizing my colas I would maximize the number of calyx I can collect and store separately so I know what my most potent supply is to everything else. I believe I have read that lower parts of the plant can also be more potent depending on strain and conditions, etc.
Topping divides the auxins across the top of the plant evenly. I say evenly loosely because once the plant matures in veg, they no longer grow out paired nodes and switch to growing alternating nodes, so when you top those, you're always left with a highest top which kind of defeats the purpose. This is why it's important to take clone stock from the lower side branches, so as to capture stock that is not yet matured. These will grow more similar to seedlings and new branches will be paired out equally with a single terminal shoot out the top. When you top this lone terminal shoot, the auxins are divided between the paired shoots below and those 2 previous side shoots become the primary shoots, each receiving near equal levels of auxins (growth hormone). So they begin with one terminal which you make into 2, then later 4, 8, 16, 32 etc until you have a nice wide short plant with a gazillion terminal shoots, each of which will produce a cola of monstrously thick dense bud.

Last thing: I wanted an opinion on an interesting article I read called “weed strains are mostly bullshit” and was wondering if you guys thought there was any validity to it. The content makes sense but then my own experiences appear to contradict it. Would really love to hear what you guys think
I read the title and the first sentence before I formed my opinion that I disagree with the rest of the article that I didn't read. I say this because breeders create new hybrids by crossing various strains, that themselves ultimately trace back to land race strains (the originals), yet because each has been accustomed to a different part of the world, different phenotypes are expressed and these phenotypes can be preserved through selective breeding. Much the same as in humans. Consider the different characteristics between Alaskan natives, American natives, and central American natives, all originating from the same ancestors, they've all grown to adapt to different environments and thus they look slightly different in size, body weight, facial features, whatever. The same science applies to strains, so they may have started with about a dozen landrace strains, they could easily flesh those out to thousands of hybrids, each bred to express certain characteristics such as purpling, larger buds, more trichomes, odors, auto flowering, maturation times, leaf structure and size, nutrient requirements and the list goes on and on.

 

[Skybound]

a calyx is the pod that 2 pistils grow out of. A cluster of calyxes is just a bud.

 

[WeedMonkey]

I guess I didn’t realize how VASTLY undereducated I have been. You’ve been both a tremendous source of knowledge and wisdom. I look forward to this grow journey with you guys. If you guys see something I need to do on the fly, please be frank about it. I will do my absolute best to provide constant and regular updates and I know the last grow or 2 I haven’t really kept up on that but with your help and my commitment to really make this the best learning experience it can be.

 

[TheGreenYeti]

I have to say that there are definitely different strains. The problem is that the descriptions are generalized for what you will see from a large population of seed stock from that strain. There is going to be different phenotypical expression from within the same genepools of strains. That is why people like to do pheno hunts to find what works best for them. If you think of it in terms of breeding say dogs you will notice that even within one litter where the mom and dad are the same, not all of the pups will be identical. People will often pay higher prices for pick of litter so that they can get what they ddesire. While you cant do that when popping seeds you can look at pheno hunting as looking for pick of the litter. When I started out growing I was only buying songle seeds of each strain I wanted to grow and hoping to get the pheno in the descriptions. It often does not work that way. The thing to realize though is that there will be variation within strains and the only way to know what works best for you is to grow out multiples of everything, keep clones and keep the one you like the best around.

 

[WeedMonkey]

Morning guys,

Maybe you can help me out with something?

I’ve reported this problem to the community in past grows and I always get told it’s a mag deficiency so I feed cal-mag and it never solves the problem.ive been told nitrogen but in flower I’m not sure what to do without fucking up this stage of growth. Any ideas?

The plant with the issue(s) is cherry pie and the rest are skunk Kush.

 

[Skybound]

I PMed you a link to a good read, but basically I agree with the consensus of Mg deficiency. I assume you're in very early bloom and for future reference, try to work out any deficiencies while still in veg, prior to bloom. Putting unhealthy plants into bloom can lead to diminished yields and overall performance. Same rule applies to taking clones. I understand fighting your way through the learning curve, so keeping perfectly healthy plants isn't easy. Still though, always put your best foot forward, research your food source to know what's in there and what will be required to supplement it's lack. Ask millions of questions of course, but continue to hone your skills and knowledge.

Edit - If growing in organics, please find a good organics thread to get more pertinent information. I'm a hydro grower and have learned a lot, some of which can be transliterated to orga, but not all of it, and I have no way of know what or which is applicable and which isn't. Synthetics are available to the roots on contact as it's all dissolved in the water, but organics is more of a time release thing.

 

[Skybound]

I’m using a “super soil” full of completely deconposted material together with coast of Maine stonington blend meant exclusively for pot plants. I do have epsom salt and anytime in the past I have used it, I never see much result and have read other people with the same issue. I have other fox farm boom bloosters like tiger bloom, big bloom (for transitional flowering), etc. I appreciate the help so much. This is always the part that gives me trouble and have issues in flowering if I can get this incident under control I’ll have much fewer problems. All plants are in the same soil, same lights, etc. yet only one plant has the problem and you wouldn’t believe how often this happens to me. If you go back and look at last grow a few plants were fine and others not so much. I can never understand why this happens despite everything being predominantly the same. I’m going to read the article you sent now. Thanks so much!

This is just my opinion, but because organics is a time release, and more importantly because it takes so long for plants to respond to corrections, it's near impossible for new growers to know if their corrections were correct. I'm not trying to sell you on hydro, but I do wish to point out that hydro plants respond very quickly which IMO would be easier for new growers to learn with. It's also my opinion that soils, unless perfectly formulated for the plants, are much more difficult to diagnose which will further confuse new growers. I might be of some help if you're trying to correct deficiencies with synthetics, but if totally organics, I can only comment my opinions of what I believe I see and not be able to help much with treatments. Perhaps you can use my feed charts to compare my elements to what you find about your soils? I mean at the end of the day, it's the macro and micro ratio in the mix that will determine the outcome, so if you can look at your soil analyses and see if N is too high, or K too low etc, you can plan ahead of time what problems you might incur in the future. My recipes are my own. I collected a lot of intel on the topic from other forums and have found for at least the macros and secondaries (major micros) very good and safe elemental ranges.