Yikes the formatting when copy and pasting from PDF is terrible here’s the actual pages
Mel Can't Dance
- Thread starter Melville Hobbes
- Start date
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
Very hard to establish any sort of mycorrhiza colony in a pot,, it is best suited in a no till environment , mycorrhizal is a vast web (web of life) and stretches for thousands of miles, it can transfer nutrients to and from the root zone of any plants that grow within its reach ( and its a vast reach) its like the underground doctor,, knows when and where to deliver the needs of a plant, its a symbiotic relationship with all things living, it plays on nutrient uptake and moves the root zone secretions to other plants that need it . Back and forth, the Ebb and flow of the underground life, once you till the land its like cutting a Fibre optic cable, and can take a couple of years to reestablish the vast connection with the soils,
I disagree to a certain extent. You can most definitely establish a mycorrhizae in a pot and do it successfully. You have to be thoughtful about what you’re adding to your pot. This starts in seedling. Most growers worry about their seedling medium being too strong nutrient wise and burning their roots. What they should be concerned with is the nutrients suppressing the mycorrhizal, there’s no reason for the plant to signal the myco when all the nutes are right there. This is why I prefer either used soil or a seedling starter.
Now the thing about container myco is it will never come close to replicating mycorrhizae in nature, and will NEVER be as efficient as old growth forest mycorrhizae. It also will most likely not be able to reach its full potential. Mycorrhizae are a product of millions of years of symbiosis and evolution. The longer they exist in symbiosis the more efficient they become.
What container growers experience with mycorrhizae pales in comparison to natural mycorrhizae. Mycorrhizae are so adept at what they do, they can take nutrients from one plant and bring it to a completely different plant vast distances away. The networks they establish are honestly one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.
So how should one use it, or is it a waste of ingredients?
Definitely not a waste. Within the next 10 years almost all nurseries and plants you buy from nurseries will come with mycorrhizae. It’s already happening at some the more popular nurseries. Mycorrhizal form associations with 96-98% of plants on earth, not using it is more wasteful than using it.
I posted it from the Teaming with Fungi book above but the best way to use it is to roll your seeds in it before planting then putting a dusting in your first transplant hole. Be easy with any nutrients for the first few weeks so it has time to establish. P and N both discourage its growth. Here’s a shot of it on my 14 day old seedling already establishing. That fuzziness you see is the mycelium from myco reaching out into the soil
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
Well in my opinion, you would be better off concentrating on the beneficial Bacteria and beneficial nematodes and, fulvic acids to bind with the broken down nutrients for better uptake, (I only mention fulvic because its more water soluble than humic)
I've just been obediently following instructions given to me by the person who sold the myco to me. I did dust the seeds with it and I spritzed the paper towel with it in solution. I have been including it in my water. I panicked during the up-pot because of the flimsy roots and forgot to include the dry myco to the hole. So I have largely been relying on the theory that it will work if watered in.Definitely not a waste. Within the next 10 years almost all nurseries and plants you buy from nurseries will come with mycorrhizae. It’s already happening at some the more popular nurseries. Mycorrhizal form associations with 96-98% of plants on earth, not using it is more wasteful than using it.
I posted it from the Teaming with Fungi book above but the best way to use it is to roll your seeds in it before planting then putting a dusting in your first transplant hole. Be easy with any nutrients for the first few weeks so it has time to establish. P and N both discourage its growth. Here’s a shot of it on my 14 day old seedling already establishing
Why not both? Although this is where grow styles come into play.. Organic acids make the nutrients too available to my plants and cut out a lot of the food web work that occurs.. I like to establish myco then the bacterial side. Bacteria can come online pretty quickly especially with AACT.. Once established the fungi can handle some pretty wild swings, it’s getting them to establishment that takes some effort.
To be fair though you and I are talking about some fairly advanced stuff for newer growers to be worrying about and the organic acid route is simpler.
It takes a little practice to find your balance. Some folks just may not like the tedium. If that’s the case then @Jonny5 recommendation of using organic acids is always a viable alternative. You perform the myco function yourself when you use these.
If it’s water soluble it should be able to establish.. However if you’re using bottled nutrients or are “feeding” your plants nutrients it’s gonna be tough. The myco sellers would love if you added it in every watering and will even give you directions to do it. Myco should only need to be used twice, three times at most. If you’re using it more than that you need to reassess what you’re doing. Or, If you’re cool with having a little bit of waste then go ahead. Myco is too expensive to me to keep applying it.
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
ya its a fine line, and definitely a balancing act, You add mycorrhiza, but then feed Phosphorus witch is in fact toxic to the mycorrhiza , so you put some in and kill some off. I was just saying that it is hard to establish an abundant form in a 2.5-5 gal pot. Are you feeding carbohydrates to your micro, so it thrives? It does get some from the root zone secretions , but a shot of Molasses will increase their numbers
- Thread starter
- #451
Day 77
Flip 39
We're still building buds here, and the frost is coming in especially with Delilah.
Do si dos #33 - Delilah
@Barney's Farm @Herbies Seeds
Do si dos - Dolores
The peppers grew quite a bit better in the PM, so I stayed with it. When I was dumping rootballs into the composter I noticed much more root growth, and that the roots looked fuzzy for the first time. I wondered what that was and looked it up. When I started growing weed I just used what I had on hand.
It definitely can have an effect in pots.
What colonizes annual plants is different. I haven't done my due diligence on how well it forms networks. I'm pretty sure it formed a connection between my girl in the ground this summer and my neighbour's plant in the ground, but they were only 3 metres apart.
I'll see if I can find it again. They were of the Glomus species, but different from Glomus Intraradices.
Flip 39
We're still building buds here, and the frost is coming in especially with Delilah.
Do si dos #33 - Delilah
@Barney's Farm @Herbies Seeds
Do si dos - Dolores
Well, I've been using it in pots for quite a few years now. I started with hot peppers, and switched to the promix from miracle gro mostly by accident. I went to get soil and the promix was on sale, lol.
The peppers grew quite a bit better in the PM, so I stayed with it. When I was dumping rootballs into the composter I noticed much more root growth, and that the roots looked fuzzy for the first time. I wondered what that was and looked it up. When I started growing weed I just used what I had on hand.
It definitely can have an effect in pots.
They are two different things when you're comparing old growth forest mycorrhizae to what we're using. The mycos that colonize trees are ectomycorrhizae, and there's a network out in Oregon or Washington state that might be the largest living organism on earth.
What colonizes annual plants is different. I haven't done my due diligence on how well it forms networks. I'm pretty sure it formed a connection between my girl in the ground this summer and my neighbour's plant in the ground, but they were only 3 metres apart.
Make sure it comes in contact with the roots as early as possible. It takes about 4 weeks for it to fully colonize the plant. Since you're using an organic soil it would definitely be beneficial, but I would be surprised if there weren't already mycos in there.
There are nurseries that only use organic soils to start the plants so people who want to grow their own organic veg have a good start.Definitely not a waste. Within the next 10 years almost all nurseries and plants you buy from nurseries will come with mycorrhizae. It’s already happening at some the more popular nurseries. Mycorrhizal form associations with 96-98% of plants on earth, not using it is more wasteful than using it.
I posted it from the Teaming with Fungi book above but the best way to use it is to roll your seeds in it before planting then putting a dusting in your first transplant hole. Be easy with any nutrients for the first few weeks so it has time to establish. P and N both discourage its growth. Here’s a shot of it on my 14 day old seedling already establishing. That fuzziness you see is the mycelium from myco reaching out into the soil
I'm wondering how well the nematodes would do in an indoor environment?
If you added it early then there's likely a colony in there already. If you want to keep watering it in it won't hurt anything. You just won't need to worry about it for the last 4 weeks or so. By then it's too late for any you add to have much effect.
I'm not really growing organically, but the mycos do colonize my plants, and do seem healthy enough when I look at the root systems at the composter. I think it has to do with the fact that the endomycos are actually within the roots, so they're not as reliant on exudates to survive.
I mostly agree, although I haven't really seen much if any detrimental effects from using MC. I think if I had been using it from the beginning things might have gone a bit differently. The nutes I was using advise you to use them within 6 months of opening them, and when I started this grow I was pretty close to that point.
Hmm. One of the few paper's I read earlier didn't find any suppression of the mycos from higher P levels in the soil, but I did notice that the strains of myco weren't the same as what's in most commercial myco supplements, or the soil I'm using.
I'll see if I can find it again. They were of the Glomus species, but different from Glomus Intraradices.
Definitely agree. I don’t think we could push it to provide the levels we see in nature unless you could manage to keep the network alive in between growths and give it time to really establish itself throughout. You’d have to maintain the same soil environment as well I’d imagine.
Yeah I amend 111 soil aeration castings and add a layer of compost on the bottom of my pots. I like to use molasses for microbe food in AACT.
I run in a seedling starter that’s just myco and organic matter for 14 days after sprout then transplant into something with some layered nutrients
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
The pro- mix HD with mycorrhizal is my base for the super soil, I will do some Research( reading up on ) the Glomus ,, I don’t or have never added nor needed to add mycro to my outdoor environment , you have seen pics of my plants and there healthy as F*** ..
Thats a great combo . Hp base for Supersoil always solid results.
That Coast Of Maine base with SS is nice with it too but needed a little extra perlite imo. Great product for sure.
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
And Just a foot note for new growers,, the mycorrhizal , Beneficial nematodes, Beneficial bacteria, are organic, and are all pretty much killed off if you choose to use Commercial fertilizers that are salts
I add perlite to everything pretty much. At least 25%.. EWC, compost, starter, base all of it
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
Perlite is a definite must if you want/ need to increase the porosity of your mix
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
Hey MEL . Just to let you know I think that it is pretty kool that you take time to “
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
To quote and answer every post.. You do good thread man
Building well, and Delilah is definitely winning the frost race at this point! Why, why, why?
Great information there...thanks Keffka!
I know that ProMix and the Fox Farm blends all have mycorrhizae added to them, so I never know if it's worth it to buy more. The good stuff ain't cheap.
Yah!
Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes
Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.
www.gardenmyths.com
Who ya gonna believe these days!