Mel Can't Dance

[Trala]

Building well, and Delilah is definitely winning the frost race at this point! Why, why, why?

OMG!

L O L L I N G !

And Shed I can’t believe not one of these myco root obsessed posters didn’t acknowledge your punnyness!

And you’ve sorted my earworm tune for tonight lollll.

 

[Trala]

OMG!

L O L L I N G !

And Shed I can’t believe not one of these myco root obsessed posters didn’t acknowledge your punnyness!

And you’ve sorted my earworm tune for tonight lollll.

EDIT: I just got a PM from an offended member that I was disparaging when I mentioned mycos and think people who use them are dolts.

It was a joke. A joke acknowledging Sheds pun. I use Mycos.

My advice, not that anyone asked. When faced with a choice of laughter or outrage, always try and choose laughter. It makes you feel so much better than frowning does

 

[Carmen Ray]

EDIT: I just got a PM from an offended member that I was disparaging when I mentioned mycos and think people who use them are dolts.

It was a joke. A joke acknowledging Sheds pun. I use Mycos.

My advice, not that anyone asked. When faced with a choice of laughter or outrage, always try and choose laughter. It makes you feel so much better than frowning does

Shame Trala, you sound so upset. If the pm had no merit, then ignore it. Don't let it get under your skin like this. As you say, outrage is not a healthy emotion. Also, it's probably not a good sign if you drag private correspondence onto a public platform in order to glean sympathy for your position. It's not very trustworthy is it.

 

[Trala]

Shame Trala, you sound so upset. If the pm had no merit, then ignore it. Don't let it get under your skin like this. As you say, outrage is not a healthy emotion. Also, it's probably not a good sign if you drag private correspondence onto a public platform in order to glean sympathy for your position. It's not very trustworthy is it.

I’m okay

Actually wasn’t about you Carmen. I posted in case I inadvertently offended anyone else.

I don’t like hurting peoples feelings.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I’m okay

Actually wasn’t about you Carmen. I posted in case I inadvertently offended anyone else.

I don’t like hurting peoples feelings.

I'm quite sure it wasn't about me Tra You'd never do that to me. We're friends. I was looking out for you. You sounded quite distraught and sorry to say it, outraged.

 

[Trala]

I'm quite sure it wasn't about me Tra You'd never do that to me. We're friends. I was looking out for you. You sounded quite distraught and sorry to say it, outraged.

Good night Carmen.

I hope it’s a good one for you

 

[Carmen Ray]

Good night Carmen.

I hope it’s a good one for you

Nite nite my friend, I'm sure I'll see you around

 

[Jonny5]

It didn’t offend me,, Tra , I think we all have are big boy/girl pantys on here a 420

 

[Jonny5]

Sometimes you read a post and you just take it with a grain of “salts “

 

[Keffka]

Sometimes you read a post and you just take it with a grain of “salts “

Chemical or organic?

 

[Jonny5]

Organic of course, chemical is way to bitter for my taste

 

[Sparkey224]

Chemical or organic?

im the minority running salt. Not chemical..lol..you guys have fun with that organic. Love organic, dont get me wrong

 

[InTheShed]

im the minority running salt. Not chemical..lol..you guys have fun with that organic. Love organic, dont get me wrong

Not the minority at all GG! I'm sure more folks on this site are using synthetic nutes (myself included) than LOS.

 

[Keffka]

Not the minority at all GG! I'm sure more folks on this site are using synthetic nutes (myself included) than LOS.

For sure in agreement about this.. It’s just us LOS guys never shut up

 

[Sparkey224]

For sure in agreement about this.. It’s just us LOS guys never shut up

Holy shit i agree..just playing, im still learning

 

[CrochetingHybrids]

It seems I missed a very informative conversation yesterday, there is a wealth of information that was shared
I agree Mel has a wonderful journal, and lovely girls to match.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Day 78
Flip 40
More stigmas are turning orange and brown, other than that nothing much has changed since yesterday.

Do si dos #33 - Delilah
@Barney's Farm @Herbies Seeds

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos #33.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• barney's farm herbies seeds

Do si dos #33
Day 78, Flip 40

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos #33 1.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• barney's farm herbies seeds

Do si dos #33
Day 78, Flip 40

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos #33 2.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• barney's farm herbies seeds

Do si dos #33
Day 78, Flip 40

Do si dos - Dolores
@Weed Seeds Express

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• weed seeds express

Do si dos
Day 78, Flip 40

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos 1.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• weed seeds express

Do si dos
Day 78, Flip 40

Do si dos Grow 07 January 2023 Do si dos 2.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Jan 7, 2023
• weed seeds express

Do si dos
Day 78, Flip 40

Whoo, this is going to be long!

Definitely agree. I don’t think we could push it to provide the levels we see in nature unless you could manage to keep the network alive in between growths and give it time to really establish itself throughout. You’d have to maintain the same soil environment as well I’d imagine.

Yeah I amend 111 soil aeration castings and add a layer of compost on the bottom of my pots. I like to use molasses for microbe food in AACT.

I run in a seedling starter that’s just myco and organic matter for 14 days after sprout then transplant into something with some layered nutrients

Well, it's the spores that survive when annual plants are colonized. Any mycos depending on their roots will die when the roots die, right?
So for our plants having spores present in the soil at germination is pretty much replicating what these plant would encounter in our areas. I have had seeds from previous years germinate in my garden and pop up in the spring. I allowed one to grow one year and it showed itself to be female. Grew very well too.

The pro- mix HD with mycorrhizal is my base for the super soil, I will do some Research( reading up on ) the Glomus ,, I don’t or have never added nor needed to add mycro to my outdoor environment , you have seen pics of my plants and there healthy as F*** ..

Yeah, there are definitely spores present in my garden for glomus intraradices from the soil that gets transferred to my garden when I transplant my in ground plants out there. Then there are the native mycos (although G. intraradices is native to a huge area IIRC).

Thats a great combo . Hp base for Supersoil always solid results.

That Coast Of Maine base with SS is nice with it too but needed a little extra perlite imo. Great product for sure.

I wonder if I can use the Organic Vegetable & Herb mix for a base?

And Just a foot note for new growers,, the mycorrhizal , Beneficial nematodes, Beneficial bacteria, are organic, and are all pretty much killed off if you choose to use Commercial fertilizers that are salts

That's not what I've found using MC. I've even used Miracle Gro 15-30-15 in veg, and it didn't kill off the mycos. I never had a way to test for microbes, but from what I've picked up reading around, they're a lot tougher that people believe.

I add perlite to everything pretty much. At least 25%.. EWC, compost, starter, base all of it

I have added it to promix before, and I always add it to my compost when I add it. I haven't used straight EWC before, but there are earthworms in my composter, so it's always in there.

Perlite is a definite must if you want/ need to increase the porosity of your mix

Increased aeration is rarely a bad thing!

Hey MEL . Just to let you know I think that it is pretty kool that you take time to “

To quote and answer every post.. You do good thread man

Thanks Jonny!
I always appreciate it when people comment, it's always great to hear what everyone thinks about what I'm doing, and any advice they may have.

Building well, and Delilah is definitely winning the frost race at this point! Why, why, why?

Great information there...thanks Keffka!

I know that ProMix and the Fox Farm blends all have mycorrhizae added to them, so I never know if it's worth it to buy more. The good stuff ain't cheap.

Yah!

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.

www.gardenmyths.com

Who ya gonna believe these days!

Thanks Shed!
Apparently there's a reference there that I'm missing

Who said plants

Who said bacteria

what kind?

Shed got you!

The kind that supports plant growth. That's the topic of the article I linked!

That's one of the ones I've read too!

I didn't see the article sorry. I'm also bouncing from one journal to the next so sometimes I lose the thread temporarily.

Sometimes I forget which thread I've read things in too.

No worries!

The one about salts and microbes? I just opened that up.

It's a good one.

Most of the more decent mixes typically will have myco in them like you said. I’m unfamiliar with granules of myco but the powdered stuff goes a long way. I bought a 15$ jar of great white and am wondering how I’ll use it before it expires. Between the starter charge of myco in the seedling mix, and rolling my seeds in myco I could really get away with just that if I’m careful. I add a little to my first transplant hole just for some extra oomph but likely don’t even need that, and even still am like “wow this stuff is gonna last”.

I purchased it after reading Jeff Lowenfels recommendation of rolling the seeds in myco. I had heard it somewhere reputable before but can’t remember, however when I read it in the book that’s when I decided “alright I’ll try it”. It makes logical sense to me that having it on the seed to make contact with the tap root instantly is beneficial. Everything beyond that seems like it may be unnecessary but like I said, if I only roll my seeds I’ll never make it through the jar before expiration lol. So we’ll see what happens.

I really need to get my control plant going so I can do actual observations, I’m hoping one of my new batch will be the lucky one. Until that happens everything is really just subjective at best.



Lol originally was gonna say it depends on the “salt” we’re talking about then read the article. Spot on. I know Im guilty of saying salt when I mean sodium.

From everything I've read the spores last for years, but the root fragment propagules only last a year or so. After they pass the "expiration" date they gradually decline in effectiveness.

Google:chemical fertilizer and the effects on soil...

I have before.

It expires? I've still got the jar of Great White I bought in summer of 2017.

I don't usually add it until I move out of solo cups but now I'm thinking I should put some in the hole in the peat pucks!

Thanks Jonny, I did. Google's summary entry said this:

"Chemical fertiliser overuse can contribute to soil acidification and soil crust, thereby reducing the content of organic matter, humus content, beneficial species, stunting plant growth, altering the pH of the soil, growing pests, and even leading to the release of greenhouse gases."

And the headline on the linked article is:

Excessive and Disproportionate Use of Chemicals Cause Soil Contamination and Nutritional Stress​

Do you think that applies to someone using Prescription Blend nutes in their pots?

I think "overuse" and "Excessive and Disproportionate Use" are the parts that got left out of the info that got passed around in some organic circles.

Yes they’re bad but it’s not really the “salts” that are causing the damage. It’s more the various acids and heavy metals that are the problem, and that’s just in containers. In nature/farms/earth it’s the entire process and all of the acids, heavy metals, and toxic reactions.



Who knows? Probably another marketing thing now that I think about it. Technically the spores can stay dormant in soils for a long period of time. I can see the possibility of the processed stuff maybe breaking down but I still would use it until the end. I assume you’d see possibly less efficacy in colonizations after some time since it’s in a processed state but with the myco already in our mixes it would probably still hold value.



I replied to Jonny as you can obviously see lol. If you’re using a soil food web system then the synthetic chelation is stealing work from the food web and bypassing the microbes. The acids used in a lot of the fertilizers would upset the balance as well. I would have to read what’s in the product before making any sort of call on it. What’s in the package is more important than what’s on the package.. So many people instantly think good or bad based on the words on the bag versus the ingredients in it. I have a product I use that in bold letters says “not for organic crops” simply because it’s a derivative and isn’t OMRI. The actual ingredients in the bottle are just Hydrolyzed fish and kelp.

Some of the products out there like MC use amino acid chelation instead of EDTA. I don't know how exactly that differs for the plants, but as I understand it that helps prevent buildups of some chemicals in the soil.

I want to point out that a very tiny percentage of synthetic nutes are chelated (iron, zinc, manganese, copper, boron, molybdenum, and nickel), but all the elements in synthetic nutes bypass the microbes.

I didn't know that. You often see people referring to all synthetic nutes as being chelated.

Lol I was just correcting myself when I saw the heads up about a new message.

But, yep.. It basically comes down to whether you want to feed the plant or feed the soil. You can do both “organically” technically, but synthetically you’re always feeding the plant. I prefer to just use some EWC and a few organic inputs here and there. The end goal is to have my own EWC that’s already had the inputs processed through the worm bin.

I had to convince my wife the space I’m already taking up is worth it.. Now I’m using the money savings and quality angle to convince her the worm bin is worth it she’s coming around though.. That first organic grow was all she needed to realize this is a good idea lol

I guess it can't be kept outdoors in an area that has a real winter, huh?

True about the different types of myco as far as we know. We can only replicate/create a handful of the myco strains, fortunately the ones we can seem to have a vast number of possible associations. We’re still learning so much about all of this stuff I won’t be surprised if we find a 3rd type or a hybrid.


That’s smart.. you’ve gotta separate yourself somehow, and that’s a pretty clever angle.




Pot size has a big effect on this. I can’t remember the exact size (15 gallon maybe?) but there’s a specific size pot you need to be able to maintain a soil food web like that consistently without having to apply things like compost teas and top dressings to maintain. I’ll have to look it up



Correct.. Endo has a special relationship within the cells and if I remember correctly a special pathway is formed for them to get what they need from the plant directly. I’m gonna have to reread a few things, after these conversations I’m realizing I’ve forgotten some stuff.



That may have been related to whichever study the myco was on. I know in Teaming with Fungi it states the process is initiated when phosphorus levels are low, thus, if they’re high, the signal won’t be sent from the plant.

Maybe there's a myco equivalent to facultative anaerobes?
I've heard a lot of organic growers refer to 15g pots as being the minimum size for a water only grow. I've considered getting one or two of them and trying it out, but I just don't have the space to store all the components for a supersoil, or the amendments for LOS/TLO.
I know that the mycos they used were all Glomus strains. The need for low levels of P seems odd since the soil I use has organic nutrients added to it.

Perhaps he word “kill” was to harsh.. maybe Counterproductive would fit better

Hmmm...

How about less necessary?

This is more what I've been thinking.

I would argue depending on pot size, less necessary can become counterproductive. However, now I’m just being annoyingly semantical

Lol, we all do that sometimes!
Or at least I know I am!

Doesn't have to be a lot of space  or money. My worm "farm" is a series of stacked 7 gallon storage containers in my basement. Footprint is about 12"x18". Cost was 4 containers and a few plumbing fittings.

It took long enough for me to get enough space for the new tent!
One thing at a time!

We live in a bungalow so space is limited to begin with between her and I and 2 kids. What I really need to do is get rid of all these synthetic nutrients I have that I will never use that were given to me when I bought the setup. They take up an absurd amount of space and I have zero use for them, but I don’t want to just throw them out.

I’m getting to the point I may just put them on the curb. They’re 6-10 gallon containers of AN micro grow bloom, sensi perfect coco a and b, canna coco jugs, finishers, boosters, etc. I’ve tried reaching out to a couple people on here that are near me to see if they want them but they don’t grow synthetically lol.

Kijiji maybe?

OMG!

L O L L I N G !

And Shed I can’t believe not one of these myco root obsessed posters didn’t acknowledge your punnyness!

And you’ve sorted my earworm tune for tonight lollll.

I didn't catch it

EDIT: I just got a PM from an offended member that I was disparaging when I mentioned mycos and think people who use them are dolts.

It was a joke. A joke acknowledging Sheds pun. I use Mycos.

My advice, not that anyone asked. When faced with a choice of laughter or outrage, always try and choose laughter. It makes you feel so much better than frowning does

Well I'm not offended.

It didn’t offend me,, Tra , I think we all have are big boy/girl pantys on here a 420

Well said!

Sometimes you read a post and you just take it with a grain of “salts “

Now that's a pun I got!

Chemical or organic?

Organic of course, chemical is way to bitter for my taste

im the minority running salt. Not chemical..lol..you guys have fun with that organic. Love organic, dont get me wrong

I'm using synth nutes too!

Not the minority at all GG! I'm sure more folks on this site are using synthetic nutes (myself included) than LOS.

Yup!

For sure in agreement about this.. It’s just us LOS guys never shut up

Holy shit i agree..just playing, im still learning

It seems I missed a very informative conversation yesterday, there is a wealth of information that was shared
I agree Mel has a wonderful journal, and lovely girls to match.

Thanks CH!
It was quite the discussion!

Thank you all for your participation in my journal! This is what makes these so valuable!
Have a great night everyone!

 

[InTheShed]

You often see people referring to all synthetic nutes as being chelated.

I often see one person doing it but a lot of folks repeat it as fact. Read the label on almost any synthetic nute package and see what it says!

 

[Keffka]

Read the label on almost any synthetic nute package and see what it says!

I adjusted that for everyone’s benefit If there’s one thing I could impart on all growers is to PLEASE read the ingredients. If the package seems like it’s holding out on you search up it’s MSDS/SDS (American growers. I’m not positive if this is a N American standard and I’m certainly unaware of European standards lol). The SDS will list exactly what’s in the package including any sort of metals that are unlisted I.e. copper

EDIT: copper isn’t necessarily bad I was just using it as an example as it’s the last metal that was unlisted on something I was looking at

 

[Trala]

Sometimes you read a post and you just take it with a grain of “salts “

Omg it’s too soon for puns! Lollling!

They’re what got me stuck in a fucking mess to begin with!

L O L L I N G !

Why? WHY?! WHYYYYYYYYY?! Delilah?!